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Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:05:23 AM   
ThinkingMan


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/18/2008
Status: offline 		My wife and I have played with blindfolds, light restraint, spanking, and role play that included D/s themes for many years but never really thought of ourselves as D/s.  Earlier this year she realized that she has a deep need to be submissive but couldn't figure out how to explain this to me, was fearful that I wouldn't understand, and started an online affair.  I discovered this at almost exactly the same time his wife did and it ended there.  My wife was badly hurt as the guy pretended to be single, disappeared without explanation, saw no reason to apologize, all the usual BS.

This is where it would end for most people, but for us it opened a whole new conversation within our relationship.  When forced to come clean she discovered that our past play made me feel empowered and highly masculine, and OF COURSE I was open to her submission.  Since then we have discovered that BDSM is a huge world and good information about it takes some searching.  Since that time we've discovered that when we get our play right she is absolutely quivering with excitement, begging to open her legs for me, and wide open and requiring of my emotional protection and nurturing afterward.  At those times I feel like the only man on Earth.  I give what she needs, take what I want, revel in her complete submission, and thrive on her wide-eyed wonder at my masculinity as she melts in my arms in afterglow.  So, aside from bragging, why am I here?  You've already spotted it; when we get our play right.  Sometimes we do, just as often we don't.  My concerns at this point:

1) She's months ahead of me on this and I'm playing catch up.

2) Being submissive she's having a real problem telling me what she needs.  Duh, if she has to tell me then who's the Dom?

3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub.  I set the rules for this.  Upfront from day 1, including admission of marital status, primary focus on our rl relationship, no compliance with requests that would subvert my primary status or otherwise lead to someone outside our house dictating what we do or don't do together.  As an example one prospective Dom wanted to dictate when and how we have sex.  Sorry Charlie, that's my job.  Still, I have niggling doubts about this from the hurt caused by her first online foray.  I don't let on.

4) Trouble telling me what she needs extends to allowing me to watch her chat online or speaking in much detail about those conversations.  That doesn't help me much although I can deal with it as long as it's just words on a screen getting her excited in my world.  She just can't seem to open up to me entirely in that venue.

5) I have no problem role playing D/s online.  It has even helped me get my head around the whole subject and define our places in the structure of the relationship.  Still, I question how much this is really going to help overall.

Any thoughts on this would be welcome, whether "here's where you might go with it" or "you're being played for a fool, Dumbass."  I'm strong enough to take anything into account and determine for myself how it applies.  This has been long, thanks for reading and thanks even more if you have constructive feedback.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:23:31 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

1) She's months ahead of me on this and I'm playing catch up.


So have her tell you what she knows.  Maybe talk about a scene beforehand and let her tell you how certain things make her feel.  You might even find that doing so can be highly erotic.  Deconstruct scenes afterward... learn what worked well and what didn't.  Plan to improve or discard what didn't work. 

quote:


2) Being submissive she's having a real problem telling me what she needs.  Duh, if she has to tell me then who's the Dom?


No matter how experienced a Top may be, that experience is worthless with a new bottom (since they all have unique fetishes, interests, trigger points, experiences, abilities, etc.).  We all go through the same learning curve with a new bottom, and even though your wife is not new to you, she is new to you as a bottom.  So don't feel insecure about it.

quote:


3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub. 


That's great if she wants to learn what she enjoys with that online Top and if you want to learn what you and your online bottom enjoy together.  But if it's your intention to learn about your wife by having an online bottom, and about what you enjoy together, then you might want to reconsider.  Do you learn how to have sex with your wife by having sex with your neighbor?  Wait... don't answer that.

quote:


4) Trouble telling me what she needs extends to allowing me to watch her chat online or speaking in much detail about those conversations.  That doesn't help me much although I can deal with it as long as it's just words on a screen getting her excited in my world.  She just can't seem to open up to me entirely in that venue.


So why not allow her to tell you what she needs from the safety and distance of an email? 

quote:


5) I have no problem role playing D/s online.  It has even helped me get my head around the whole subject and define our places in the structure of the relationship.  Still, I question how much this is really going to help overall.


Yeah, I'm having the same problem figuring out how it's gonna do more good than harm.

quote:


Any thoughts on this would be welcome, whether "here's where you might go with it" or "you're being played for a fool, Dumbass."  I'm strong enough to take anything into account and determine for myself how it applies.  This has been long, thanks for reading and thanks even more if you have constructive feedback.


Those are my thoughts.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:32:34 AM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		Get off the damn computer and try this with each other. You both know you are "new" to this and not sure how it needs to work. Find out for yourself, what works for you works, what does not does not. It works different for everyone, they only way to find out is to do it. Get out and join in the local groups, maybe you will find someone that you can talk to and can mentor you or at least give you some hints. But playing with others on-line is not going to help you, as most on-line as your wife has found out is wanker-ville.

Mike

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:35:58 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Have her keep a journal.
You can have her write free form about whatever comes to her mind, or possibly give her different topics to research and discuss.
Then she can kneel at your feet and read to you what she wrote.
It must be word for word, and it must be honest.
I think that would be a good start.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to SirMIkeSD)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:49:20 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan
2) Being submissive she's having a real problem telling me what she needs.  Duh, if she has to tell me then who's the Dom?


Identifying as a Dominant man does not give you the powers of ESP, so how are you supposed to know?  Perhaps you need to remind her that just because she tells you what she wants (and whether it is an actual "need" is to be determined), doesn't mean you have to act on it.  You receive the information from her, and do with it what you will.  I like the other suggestions of having her do a journal or send you emails if she can't tell you face-to-face.

quote:


3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub.


To me, this has "trainwreck" written all over it.  You probably could each benefit from a mentor, which is someone that you want to be like.  So you need another Dominant as a mentor; she needs another submissive as a mentor. 


Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:53:49 AM   
ThinkingMan


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/18/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks for your feedback.  One assignment I've already given her is to go to an online story site (name withheld because I don't think it's fair to advertise other sites on collarme) to find some stories that really flip her switches.  Reading them to me is a nice touch, I hadn't thought of that.  The email and journal ideas are also good, maybe better because it's straight from her mind.  By doing these things it might take just enough immediacy off the situation that she can express herself well.  We do talk about scenes after the fact, an act that hits a triple by bringing us together, teaching both of us about likes/dislikes/possibilities and it's erotic as well.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 9:55:42 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Please Understand the following is simply my Opinion and not a series of rules you need to follow, it is just ideas for you to think about before eventually deciding for yourself what you need to do. I tend to state my opinions bluntly and to the point, this is not to give you a One True Way outlook but rather to help you see that I stand behind my own beliefs with conviction because ultimatly this lifestyle is all about what you want out of it, not what everyone else thinks you should do, but what you WANT to do. That being Said .........

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

My wife and I have played with blindfolds, light restraint, spanking, and role play that included D/s themes for many years but never really thought of ourselves as D/s.  Earlier this year she realized that she has a deep need to be submissive but couldn't figure out how to explain this to me, was fearful that I wouldn't understand, and started an online affair.  I discovered this at almost exactly the same time his wife did and it ended there.  My wife was badly hurt as the guy pretended to be single, disappeared without explanation, saw no reason to apologize, all the usual BS.


This only conserned me because you state that she was hurt and STILL IS, To me that would show that her mind is in two different places when it comes to emotional connections. If this were me I would think it is time to take a Mini Vacation and RE CONNECT. Fall in love all over again, there was a time only you could have hurt her that way get back to that point then start your journey into the world of What it is that we do (WIITWD)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

1) She's months ahead of me on this and I'm playing catch up.


Then Man Up and go get some Literature. Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns, The Story of "O", Master/slave Relations by Dr. Robert Rubel, Different Loving, The Loving Dominant, are all good books. Check out online sites that have archived articles on the Lifestyle www.thedomsview.com is a great place to start. she may be months ahead of you but with a little reading and time you can be right beside her in terms of where you are in knowledge of this lifestyle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

2) Being submissive she's having a real problem telling me what she needs.  Duh, if she has to tell me then who's the Dom?


Don't fool yourself, she doesn't know herself, she can't tell you what she wants because to do so would have her admitting she wants it you are both in a position where you need to be uneducationg yourself about everything you know about sex because you have been programmed for so long that WIITWD is wrong or sick. I think that is you spend more time experimenting and then discussing it the following day you will get a better idea of what you both like. START A DIALOGUE!! Saturday Night Tie Her Up, Then Spank and Fuck her. Sunday Morning over Coffee ask her how she felt about the whole thing, what she liked, what she didn't, Then tell her what you liked and what you didn't, then do something different Monday Night and talk about that Tuesday Morning. Talk to Each Other Directly about what you feel and be honest and open and don't hold back, if you didn't like something you need to tell her and tell her why, and if she didn't like something she needs to tell you and tell you why. That doesn't mean it will never happen again just that now that you know about what you like and what you don't you can do it differently to get comfort out of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub.  I set the rules for this.  Upfront from day 1, including admission of marital status, primary focus on our rl relationship, no compliance with requests that would subvert my primary status or otherwise lead to someone outside our house dictating what we do or don't do together.  As an example one prospective Dom wanted to dictate when and how we have sex.  Sorry Charlie, that's my job.  Still, I have niggling doubts about this from the hurt caused by her first online foray.  I don't let on.


I believe this is taking you further from one another. NO ONE WHO ISN'T YOUR PARTNER CAN TEACH YOU HOW TO DO THINGS TO YOUR PARTNER! I don't believe in Trainors, a Mentor can help but it is just like what I am doing here they are a sound board to discuss things with and open up to and learn new ideas and thought processes they aren't there to make you into a robot of them but rather to help you become who you are going to become without having to do it alone. If you read My Journal you will read about what I went through and how it helped me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

4) Trouble telling me what she needs extends to allowing me to watch her chat online or speaking in much detail about those conversations.  That doesn't help me much although I can deal with it as long as it's just words on a screen getting her excited in my world.  She just can't seem to open up to me entirely in that venue.


Hiding is a sign of Shame, It is also a sign to you that she feels there are parts of her she cannot share with you. To give you an Idea andi know about EVERYONE I talk with online and over the phone, I even tell you what we talk about but that is because I eventually want us all to meet. I don't try to do anything with them that is sexual in nature, sure I have requested pictures and I won't deny that I like the sight of a woman sans clothing but andi always sees the pictures as well. The Point is at some point you need to break the wall between those to venues. Make all her actions and beliefs ONLINE match what is REALLY HAPPENING to her in reality. Also you can require her to e-mail you all her conversations, when andi was chatting with a few guys I required her to do that until I saw that the guys were respecting thier boundires and then I told her she didn't need to anymore. If you start incorporating the things they she talks with these other Dom's about into your sex life then she may find she WANTS to tell you about the things that she discusses just know it doesn't happen in a week or a month this is all going to take time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

5) I have no problem role playing D/s online.  It has even helped me get my head around the whole subject and define our places in the structure of the relationship.  Still, I question how much this is really going to help overall.


If it is simply a Role you are playing then it isn't real. It needs to be Real for her to respect it. Stop the role playing and just carry yoursself as you do when you are empowerd by your own masculinity. Take Control of your life and be the leader she needs you to be, don't make it a role or a character you are playing in the bedroom make it who you are all day every day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

Any thoughts on this would be welcome, whether "here's where you might go with it" or "you're being played for a fool, Dumbass."  I'm strong enough to take anything into account and determine for myself how it applies.  This has been long, thanks for reading and thanks even more if you have constructive feedback.


I wish you luck in everything that you do. If you ever need someone to just talk with and about the lifestyle as I understand it feel free to drop me a line and I am serious when I say my door is always open.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 10:02:28 AM   
VampiresLair


Posts: 1307
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline 		I agree with the others, learning from online people will not help a damn bit when it comes to you and she working things out. It is all trial and error when you begin this sort of relationship. I have 13 years experience, Fox had none when I got him, and we were on equal footing when it came to learning what worked for us.
Quite honestly, she is not months ahead of you at all. She knows what trips her trigger online, but thats about it. If she cannot talk to you about those conversations and cant tell you what she needs or wants, then she isnt helping. As a submissive, if you tell her you want to know about the conversation, then that is when she should tell you. She might not volunteer the information, but she should be able to offer it up when you tell her its desired. If she cant, then log her conversations and read them for yourself. Tell her to inform whomever she is talking to that this is what will happen and see what you get out of that.
The problem with learning online and then tranlating to real life is two-fold. A) she is learning what makes someone else happy, which has absolutely nothing to do with your likes and dislikes. Fox could not be trained by someone else on how I like things in real life, becasue no one else reacts as I do to scenes and scenarios.
b) Online fantasy does not necessarily translate well to real life. She is never touched online, she allows her imagination to create the sensations and then imagines what sort of rush shed get, then imagines the responses and so on.  Do you think feeling a whip and imagining a whip are the same? What happens when she finds out something her online teacher told her shed love actually hurts enough to knock her out of headspace? Or, she tries something on you her online teacher has taught her to enjoy and you hate it? What have either of you accomplished?

You need to talk to her, share ideas, write a list of things that excite you both. Keep a journal after playtime on what worked well and what flopped. You need to learn one another, and no one outside can help you with that. Talking to a mentor of your own pursuasion might help by idea gathering, like having another dominant male give you ideas on what to try to get her going, or having her speak to a sub to see wat she should offer to you to get your attention. Not all the ideas will work, but some might. And that way there isnt the possibility of attachment to the online person who is controling or being contrlled and no feelings to take into accoutn when you two decide to end the experiment.

My 2 cents
DV


_____________________________

Separately we are DiurnalVampire and DVsFox

10/18 Wedding date. 1 year and still blissfully happy

10/13/10 3 year anniversary of his becoming my Fox

Talk impolitely to me, baby - Thanks sunshinemiss



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 10:11:02 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Maybe it's because of the fact that I highly focus on openness and honesty in my interactions that I'm concerned about her behavior...and you. You said you wanted to be given different viewpoints and since there's basic advice delineated already, I'll toss the more sensitive and unhappy concerns into the discussion...

While the highs of discovery in this kink (I have yet to be sure, from her point at least, the 'submission' is amounting to more than mere "do me" bottoming...) are making things pretty right now, it perhaps deserves to be sincerely weighed (particularly by you) how much of this is the equivalent of trying to 'have a baby to save the marriage'.

I am fully aware that I think I'm much more adamant and strict with instances of emotional infidelity, but the fact that this entire chapter of your lives was born of secrecy and mistrust does not speak to me of the very core foundations that I personally would see as necessary to build a budding D/s relationship (or build a D/s facet to an already defined relationship). I think, even should you both still decide go forward, paying attention to the fact that her first "sub" act was one of deception and betrayal to you is actually important. As a D-type, this is a position of imbalance and I think it merits reining her closely. She's going to need to sharply understand that there will be (and should be) displeasure that you will force upon her. I'm not talking about physical pain play...I'm talking about testing her behavior under duress. See if she can actually abide by her own submission if it puts her somewhere she doesn't like...or if it will mean her succumbing to an insulting rebellion again.

While I think your choice to allow her an online Dom (under your rules this time) may seem like a nice gesture, I think you're focusing too much on the formality of trying to appease an 'equality' balance. The balance of a D/s relationship shouldn't (IMHO) be measured in equal 'freedoms', but equal emotional and personal investment. To that point, I think you're the one who's a bit behind because of her misdeed. I'd personally deny her the option of an online Dom until there is a display of awareness as to what her submission means to her (have her spend an entire day thinking about it and writing out a formal essay describing it, which she shall present to you after a set period of time). You need, before all else I think, a keen insight into what she thinks this whole thing means to her...and then you need to weigh it against what you want and need (which, admittedly, may be different than my views which are being expressed here...but at least you get to start with what you want. Not me. Not her).

The reason I bring much of this up isn't just for the sake of ritualistic retribution. I get a general sense that, though you're hiding it aptly (and perhaps trying to mask it more under the pretense that you need to be "strong" as the Dom), you're not giving enough time to how this hurt you. If she's choosing to pursue a D/s dynamic, it should be clear in her mind that, because of the way she started upon it, she has a deep level of penance to hold up to to get her foot out of the proverbial shit she's put it in. You will personally need to flesh out what it is you'll need to feel compensated for the transgression. My choice of word(s) may seem cold there, but when you search yourself for the degree of pain this caused, you'll know what it is you need...because if she can't show trustworthiness (especially after blatantly failing at it) you're not going to be fulfilled.

Hope there's something amidst the sternness in there that helps.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 10:22:46 AM   
Tinkerer


Posts: 136
Joined: 7/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub. I set the rules for this. Upfront from day 1, including admission of marital status, primary focus on our rl relationship, no compliance with requests that would subvert my primary status or otherwise lead to someone outside our house dictating what we do or don't do together. As an example one prospective Dom wanted to dictate when and how we have sex. Sorry Charlie, that's my job. Still, I have niggling doubts about this from the hurt caused by her first online foray. I don't let on.




I agree that this is a bad idea. Even if things don't turn out sour, individuals are so different that you might learn with someone completely different than her. What good does it do to learn on your neighbors car if he has an automatic and yours is a stick- shift?

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 11:01:52 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Work it out with each other. There is something (I am sorry to say) faintly ridiculous about find out about each other's leanings, and then acting that out online. It reminds me of the girlfriend I once had, who was so addicted that she wanted to have cybersex with me, with her on the PC upstairs, and me on my laptop downstairs. She got fired.

Secondly, from the way you started it seems to me you're a couple and you like to get kinky. I am unclear why you need to "institutionalize" this, and declare yourselves Dom and sub, and then bang on about how she can not express herself. If that is the case, that must have been the case throughout your marriage, and you should see a couple therapist.

Lastly, are the two of you getting bored in your marriage? And if that is the case, what makes you think that talking on a PC is going to solve that? She started the online thing, so you may have a bored wife on your hands, one that is going to go off an find a more exciting man. And exciting can simply mean "new".

I think you should try to be normal about this, do the kink if you like, see a therapist, if only to talk someone who knows what they are talking about, and I think you should leave your wife alone, let her do her thing. I get a distinct feeling you're manipulating and managing her - if you are, that will wreck your marriage.

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 11:09:09 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Yer fucking kidding right?  You have a rl wife who seems more worldly to you in submission,  So you wanna playing online for pratice?  Has the whole world gone crazy or what.  More likely the scenrio is... you were boring her in bed and she "discovered" net sex and got busted.  Your relationship has far more "issues" than boring sex.  SHEESH

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Tinkerer)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 11:53:18 AM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingMan

My wife was badly hurt as the guy pretended to be single, disappeared without explanation, saw no reason to apologize, all the usual BS.


Ok - let me just say here that you sound like a very nice guy, sympathizing with your wife about her frustrated online affair. That's a very good quality, but on the other hand, right away I'm starting to wonder about your skill at boundary setting and communication. Not saying you aren't good at these things; just that the inkling of a question re: those has started to form.
quote:


This is where it would end for most people, but for us it opened a whole new conversation within our relationship. ....

...Being submissive she's having a real problem telling me what she needs. Duh, if she has to tell me then who's the Dom?

Firstly, being a submissive does not make one incoherent.
She needs to disabused of that notion and step up on this.

Not that it's always easy, but nonetheless, honest communication is the responsibility of both parties.

Maybe have her fill out a "BDSM activities checklist" and then discuss it with her.

And, as others have said, you aren't expected to know, either via some cosmic domly insight, or via the old noxious platitude, "if you loved me, you'd just know".

quote:


3) In an attempt to learn the ropes (so to speak) she has adopted an online Dom and I am seeking an online sub.
.... Still, I have niggling doubts about this from the hurt caused by her first online foray. I don't let on.

Let on. Be as honest with her as you hope she will be with you.
It's ok to be vulnerable and insecure sometimes. You're only human.
Hopefully your wife doesn't expect a cartoon dom who has no emotional range or depth, though I suppose that's possible.
quote:


4) Trouble telling me what she needs extends to allowing me to watch her chat online or speaking in much detail about those conversations. That doesn't help me much although I can deal with it as long as it's just words on a screen getting her excited in my world. She just can't seem to open up to me entirely in that venue.

My question to you would be, are you really completely ok with this?
I'm not necessarily against the online thing, but fact that it isn't transparant would bother me, I think, but that could be just me.
I had a sub once who really got off on phone sex with dominant men.
We discovered this together, but I was only sort of luke warm about it.
She, however, had a totally anonymous telephone number, and discovered that she could talk with dominant men on the phone any time she wanted, via Craigslist.
She usually had a couple of guys to choose from.
If the first didn't sound appealing, she politely got off the line and called another.
When she first did this, I was concerned, but her transparency about it is what made me feel more comfortable. She told me everything and we even considered recording a few calls, though we never did.
My point with the story: I can understand her getting off with others, but it's only with transparency that it makes it acceptable to me.
You might feel differently, of course.
But, I hear in your post that you're respecting her comfort levels, but I haven't picked up that she's expressing significant concern and respecting yours.

Good luck to you!

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 12:55:49 PM   
ThinkingMan


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Yer fucking kidding right?  You have a rl wife who seems more worldly to you in submission,  So you wanna playing online for pratice?  Has the whole world gone crazy or what.  More likely the scenrio is... you were boring her in bed and she "discovered" net sex and got busted.  Your relationship has far more "issues" than boring sex.  SHEESH

BadOne


OK, I had that coming.  Fact is she was sick for months before and after major surgery.  Yeah, we didn't have much going on, she rarely got out of the house, and this started out as what she saw as a harmless escape at a time when everyone, me included, saw her more as a patient than a woman.  Then feelings got involved, as they always do.  Prior to that we've always enjoyed our time together, although after 24 years together we are both happy to be exploring ways to put some additional fire to the flame.

To move on to Jeptha's comments, I'm not completely OK with it, especially the resistance to transparency.  Yes, she's bucking me on limits to what she thinks is a harmless activity as long as it's "just sex, not love."  On the other hand she is sincere in that she knows she put her marriage in jeopardy, she understands that she divided and reduced our connection by investing in a phony relationship online, and she kicks herself every day for falling into that trap.  Interestingly, as I put limits on her a little at a time she resists at first but then turns toward me more and more.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 1:20:48 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		ThinkingMan:

Largely I'm going to agree with the excellent advice you've received already on this thread. I particularly thought Rover and SteelofUtah had some pragmatic and detailed thoughts. My own 2c adds....

Don't for a second think to yourself that your wife is "months" ahead of you in anything. From your own description of her attitudes and behaviors, she's still in the very first baby steps also. Honestly... she's like into the second paragraph on page 1 of the book of BDSM. It's not like she's 20 chapters ahead of you.

I'm somewhat concerned that your setting your marriage up for a real disaster. Others have disagreed with me on different threads, but I can tell you that for my wife and I who went though almost exactly this same scenario recently (including the whole, one of us ran into BDSM in SecondLife part), the move from vanilla to M/s required substantially more trust and respect in each other as well as better lines of communication. Doing my best to read into your post, it appears that you and your wife have challenges in the area of communication and real gaps in trust/respect. Even more concerningly, rather than pulling together to achieve this goal you instead go your separate ways with strangers? My wife and I would've failed had we started on that foundation. Depending on how stubborn we were in admitting that it wasn't going to work, we might've torpedoed the 15 year marriage as a result.

Me personally, I would recommend a complete stop to SecondLife or whatever other online venue your in and a serious, real-life, heart to heart. My opinion is that you two are going to need to up your game rather substantially in order to make this work. That's not a bad thing. My wife and I upped our game also and it's turned out delightfully.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 1:30:51 PM   
cagliostro


Posts: 128
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline 		My suggestion is to throw out what you percieve as D/s and the "learning online" thing.  Just wipe the slate clean.

D/s is fundamentally power exchange.  The dom gets power in the relationship, the sub reliquishes it.  She's not giving up her humanity or anything of the sort.  She still has every right to ask you for something.  She should ask.  Make that part clear to her.  In fact, since you're the dominant partner you can make her.  That could be fun, too.  Tease her / torture her until she tells you.  Provided she even knows, that is.  The only alternative is to start trying anything and everything until you hit on something that works.  That would be really time consuming, and probably pretty boring.  Better just talk.  Or make her talk ;)

Don't worry about her being "months ahead."  If it were years it might be something to consider, but you're both noobs so a few months won't make much difference.

I don't think that online stuff is really going to help much.  You'll get a vague idea what it's like in life, but so much of the interaction is in the touch and feel of what's happening.  There's a completely different feel to having a crop in your hand than telling someone online you're going to crack it across their ass.  There's just no comparison.  Besides, a lot of online people are fakes, or wusses in real life.  You never know what you're really getting.

Overall, just be smart.  Talk to her.  Encourage yourself.  Think, but don't think too much.  Sometimes it *is* best to just do.

(in reply to Jeptha)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 2:26:05 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		If the two of you don't go through the painful process of learning to talk and be open with one another, you will always be stuck even as your Topping and her bottoming improve. You don't become a musical expert by playing guitar hero and you don't become an expert marksman by playing Tom Clancy. They're just fundamentally different.

Sitting down and writing out what you want, don't want and sincerely feel you have to offer is an excellent place to start. Then, share what you wrote with each other. If you're willing to be vulnerable, she may be more likely, too.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 2:28:06 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		First, Im going to say congradulations - you're both fortunate that you both can learn and grow in this together.

Now, get rid of online partners. Unless you two want to discuss polyamory I highly reccomend leaving the online play Out of it. The RL and online worlds are just too different and it will create unrealistic expectations. Scrap it.

That said, there's a lot of good advice in this thread. Take it slow, and if shes having difficulty saying things Pry it out of her, then show her appreciation for overcoming that vulnerability. Lack of trust negates honesty and can lead to hiding. She wants to give. All you need to do is really look at yourself and figure out what you want to take.


< Message edited by Daes -- 10/29/2008 2:31:36 PM >

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to cagliostro)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 3:52:47 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		You just confirmed what I thought: "she put her marriage in jeopardy". Because of cybersex? I personally think that you are putting your marriage in jeopardy, by going totally over the top.

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Getting what I need from my sub--information - 10/29/2008 4:53:44 PM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		I had an awful time when I first started out. I suggest you each write a journal for the other. Dominant is not necessarily clairvoyant, of course she has to let you know what she wants, if you can read her mind you should be on television.
My wife and I had to write accounts of what we wanted, eventually the flood gates opened and we could tell each other anything.

(in reply to ThinkingMan)
Profile   Post #: 20
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