RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II.

RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 7:50:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY As for some others ... well, they appear to be exposing their own prejudice, and narrow-minded belief in stereotypes. And so you jump the bandwagon to passive aggressively insult posters in order to avoid commenting on the subject of the thread. Nice.

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 7:52:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Still covered by the First Amendment. I realise this; I wonder whether you would care to comment on this incident, particularly in the light of your recent thread on the hanging of Palin's effigy, and knowing that this is the second time something like this is reported to have occurred with an effigy of Obama in as many universities, and in as many months. PS: edited for claridad.

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 7:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Regardless of motivation (hatred towards woman, blacks, gays etc) a "hate crime" is also qualified by the committing of a criminal offense---ie..assault, murder, rape, destruction of one's property etc. I don't think effigys are considered criminal offenses. Though I could be wrong. I wonder whether a good lawyer could argue that the defacement of campus (ie., private) property with an offensive hateful effigy constitutes property crime.

MzMia -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:03:18 PM)
Most Americans with even a small amount of education and intelligence realize what lynchings have meant in relationship to Black people. To even debate this, is beneath me. I offer those that really "don't see" it or "get it" this. I know many want to play this "game" and pretend they are ignorant. But for the few, that really want to get a clue, you might read more about the history of lynchings and Black people in America. By the way, there are millions of links in relationship to lynchings, hate crimes, and the Black experience in America. I would even suggest reading about SLAVERY, and the conditions of Blacks and how they were treated after slavery in America. Without Sanctuary http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/lynchingera.html

Owner59 -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:05:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee No offense...but is it to be taken into consideration that it was done in Kentucky? i wasnt thrilled with the Palin thing...but this offends me and makes me sad in a much deeper way. Reading the thread, I find Mad Rabbit to be on point, and intelligently arguing the issue. Kudos, MR. As for some others ... well, they appear to be exposing their own prejudice, and narrow-minded belief in stereotypes. Firm Dude,you`re scare`n me. I was just about to say the exact same thing about MR. It`s like you read my mind or something. This is psycotic,... I mean psycic.[:D]

MzMia -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:08:44 PM)
Actually Owner think of it this way. These people DO exist. Remember how many people did not "see" what was happening to the jews during World War 2 ? History is full of examples of people that did not "see" things that were all around them. Sad thing is history books are full of these stories. I can find 6th graders that are aware of lynchings and what has happened to Black people. Have you ever wondered who those people where? Now ya know!

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:09:29 PM)
Mia - I hesitated over whether to post this thread or not. I hope that at the worst this is a stupid prank by a drunk student. I think this kind of thing should be sanctioned by the law: free speech should not mean having the right to express any violent and inhuman impulses that may lurk beneath the surface of less enlightened individuals.

marieToo -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:12:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Regardless of motivation (hatred towards woman, blacks, gays etc) a "hate crime" is also qualified by the committing of a criminal offense---ie..assault, murder, rape, destruction of one's property etc. I don't think effigys are considered criminal offenses. Though I could be wrong. I wonder whether a good lawyer could argue that the defacement of campus (ie., private) property with an offensive hateful effigy constitutes property crime. I guess a lawyer could try to argue anything. I would imagine arguing to have the effigy-hanging qualify as "intimidation" might be a more likely and successful attempt to get it qualified as a hate crime; after all, the 'offense' is towards Obama, and not really the campus property. Unless the Univeristy decided to sue the offending students.

MzMia -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:13:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Mia - I hesitated over whether to post this thread or not. I hope that at the worst this is a stupid prank by a drunk student. I think this kind of thing should be sanctioned by the law: free speech should not mean having the right to express any violent and inhuman impulses that may lurk beneath the surface of less enlightened individuals. kittin, I don't mind the thread. There were soon by thousands of these "pranks" going on. It is the people that don't have the education of someone in Junior High School, and claim to not know what "lynchings" symbolize is what I am enjoying.

slvemike4u -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:14:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well MadRabbit to achieve this utopia you dream of....would require a lack of knowledge of our own dark history where lynchings were used to intimidate...How would you propose to achiee this ignorance in the general population. It's actually not that hard. People just have to stop assuming they know what the meaning of a symbol is (which you don't). It's the height of arrogance and racial biast. I find that your so ready to condemn some college kids to jail when you have no facts as to what they were trying to communicate to be even more disqusting then the symbol itself. God help me if your ever on my jury. MadRabbit,I believe this is the second time I have been moved to ask you to not worry about what I do and what i do not understand...believe me I know full well what the hanging of a black man in effigy means in this country.Unlike you I am under no illusion's about this country's racial history. Denial is indeed a most convienant thing....One last point if I was sitting on a jury,I would in fact sit and listen to all the evidence presented before reaching,what in my mind would be as fair and just decision as I possibly could...but since this is merely a forum I feel no such responsibility in putting forth an opinion...even if such a jury was sitting in judgement of such a fine upstanding citizen as yourself....

MadRabbit -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:15:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Most Americans with even a small amount of intelligence realize what lynchings have meant in relationship to Black people. To even debate this, is below me. I offer those that really "don't see" it or "get it" this. I know many want to play this "game" and pretend they are ignorant. But for the few, that really want to get a clue, you might read more about the history of lynchings and Black people in America. By the way, there are millions of links in relationship to lynchings, hate crimes, and the Black experience in America. I would even suggest reading about SLAVERY, and the conditions of Blacks and how they were treated after slavery in America. Without Sanctuary I for one happen to be well educated on the associations between lynching and black people. I am also well educated on what effigies and their association with politicians. We have a time honored American tradition of hanging politicians and sport coaches effigies. Here is an article archived in the New York Times dating back to 1854 chronicling such events... http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9504E4DB153DE034BC4F51DFB566838F649FDE&oref=slogin What I am not well educated on is whether this particular symbol was the hanging of a politician or the lynching of a black man. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the difference between fact and assumption. Here's some links to get you started... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Fact http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Assumption

MadRabbit -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:16:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well MadRabbit to achieve this utopia you dream of....would require a lack of knowledge of our own dark history where lynchings were used to intimidate...How would you propose to achiee this ignorance in the general population. It's actually not that hard. People just have to stop assuming they know what the meaning of a symbol is (which you don't). It's the height of arrogance and racial biast. I find that your so ready to condemn some college kids to jail when you have no facts as to what they were trying to communicate to be even more disqusting then the symbol itself. God help me if your ever on my jury. MadRabbit,I believe this is the second time I have been moved to ask you to not worry about what I do and what i do not understand...believe me I know full well what the hanging of a black man in effigy means in this country.Unlike you I am under no illusion's about this country's racial history. Denial is indeed a most convienant thing....One last point if I was sitting on a jury,I would in fact sit and listen to all the evidence presented before reaching,what in my mind would be as fair and just decision as I possibly could...but since this is merely a forum I feel no such responsibility in putting forth an opinion...even if such a jury was sitting in judgement of such a fine upstanding citizen as yourself.... Okay....so we have established that you are making claims to knowing something that you don't know. Thank you for your continued ignorance and racial biast.

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:18:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia It is the people that don't have the education of someone in Junior High School, and claim to not know what "lynchings" symbolize is what I am enjoying. You know... this kind of knee-jerk reaction against a shameful aspect of history happens all over the world. People don't like to be reminded of what happened in the not so distant past: the weight of shame is heavy. I wish some would shrug the shame off and face up to the past. It's the only way to move on. PS: edited to add: whatever the motive behind this kind of stuff... I still fail to see the joy behind it. Have you ever heard of Guy Fawke's night in England? It's not very pretty either...

TreasureKY -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:19:57 PM)
Hey! This is all old news. [;)] Halloween Decoration or Hate Crime

FirmhandKY -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:19:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee No offense...but is it to be taken into consideration that it was done in Kentucky? i wasnt thrilled with the Palin thing...but this offends me and makes me sad in a much deeper way. Reading the thread, I find Mad Rabbit to be on point, and intelligently arguing the issue. Kudos, MR. As for some others ... well, they appear to be exposing their own prejudice, and narrow-minded belief in stereotypes. Firm Dude,you`re scare`n me. I was just about to say the exact same thing about MR. It`s like you read my mind or something. This is psycotic,... I mean psycic.[:D] Great minds, Owner ... great minds ... [:D] Firm

MzMia -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:21:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia It is the people that don't have the education of someone in Junior High School, and claim to not know what "lynchings" symbolize is what I am enjoying. You know... this kind of knee-jerk reaction against a shameful aspect of history happens all over the world. People don't like to be reminded of what happened in the not so distant past: the weight of shame is heavy. I wish som would shrug the shame off and face up to the past. It's the only way to move on. Many people are in denial about slavery, about what slavery actually is and was, and the treatment of Black people during and after slavery. Many people are in denial about how the jews were treated during and after WW2. Always remember kittin, DENIAL is not just a river in Egypt.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:21:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Hey! This is all old news. [;)] Halloween Decoration or Hate Crime Looks kinda like Hillary. I wonder if it was an early Obama supporter that put it up? [:D] Firm

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:22:34 PM)
I never forget, Mia [>:] .

BlackPhx -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:23:53 PM)
My only comment is a simple one.. Better it is out in the open and can be addressed and guarded against, than in the dark and festering. Hatreds fuel of choice is fear, often what you fear you want to destroy. It could have just been a Halloween prank, it could be something else, I have heard shouts of "Kill Him" at McCain and Palin Rallies, have heard the opinion that Obama is Muslim, Arab, a Terrorist and a weak response from McCain.."He's a Decent Man." instead of what should have been said, "He was born American and IS American, no matter what his parents were or what religion he chooses, that is one of our freedoms and as a Veteran I fought and will fight to protect that freedom." Frankly McCain would have earned a LOT of respect from me if he had stepped up that way instead of trying to fuel the fear. Perhaps in the future we will know if EITHER of these effigy hangings, Palin or Obama was a prank or a Hate Crime, but we don't know now. Oddly enough college students have been hanging and burning effigies for ages, without malice.. Hmmm perhaps next year Universal should do a Presidential Election Halloween Horror Night..where you can go through a Congressional Budgetary meeting and Caucus Scare House..and Bills and Pork will jump out of the stacks as you walk through the fog of economics. poenkitten

kittinSol -> RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. (10/29/2008 8:25:28 PM)
Too true too. Time will tell. No offense to Mia, but I hope she's mistaken and that this isn't a sign of uglier things to come.

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