RE: Obama plan a blast from the past.

RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (Full Version)

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bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:25:56 AM)
i have common sense. i have read a little about the fall of the NYSE in 1929. the recipe that for sure caused the depression was the raising of taxes by President Hoover. That is where the term "HOOVERVILLE" came from. the bailout has done very little to stop the recession. the only thing that can make it worse is raising taxes.

LadyEllen -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:26:32 AM)
Sanity; Except you won't be getting it back, Obama is talking about taking money from people who would otherwise be rewarding their hard-working employees with significant raises............ Just another somewhat sniping point - "rewarding employees with significant raises"; isnt that sharing the profits of the business with the workers? Redistributing the wealth produced by their efforts? Saying that labour should have claim to the benefits of the means of production? Sounds a bit socialist to me E edited 'cause the quotes went haywire!

bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:29:54 AM)
it is sharing the wealth! yes, but at least they earned it proudly! they all worked for that success. who wants a handout? not me!

kittinSol -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:32:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync it is sharing the wealth! yes, but at least they earned it proudly! they all worked for that success. A middle class person who's working their ass off deserves to live in abject poverty. I get it.

bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:41:23 AM)
kitt i am do not make $150,000 a year! i do not own a business. i work for every penny i earn. but, i do not live in poverty! what we call poverty in this country is rich in many countries!

kittinSol -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:43:15 AM)
Riiiiiight. A middle class person who's gone to college, works their ass off, and is still paying back student loans ten years after graduating, deserves to have to worry over whether to pay for food or for clothes for the children. I get it.

giveeverything -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:43:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Please stop lying [:(] ? I cannot bear to see kittin cry.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:45:05 AM)
quote: what we call poverty in this country is rich in many countries! Dammit!!! Now, *THAT* little gem should've been somebody's campaign slogan.... ~p.t. barnum slut

kittinSol -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:45:11 AM)
It's allergy tears [8D] .

bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:47:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo So did McCain. In fact, if you can remember that far back he called off his campaign so he could help push that plan through then discovered that folks didn't like him taking time off for that and went back to the campaign. Obama isn't taking money from every business... in fact, pay attention to his plan and not to Republican rhetoric, he has plans for tax cuts for businesses that employ people in the USA. How is that not putting money back into the American economy and into the hands of Americans? quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Except you won't be getting it back, Obama is talking about taking money from people who would otherwise be rewarding their hard-working employees with significant raises, expanding their businesses and otherwise growing the economy. And Obama voted for that bailout package too, didn't he... quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I am totally lost here. Didn't Bush and Paulson just push through a massive wealth redistribution plan from the middle class (via a deficit that will need to be paid off) to the wea;thy finance companies and the six-figure employees there? I'd sure as hell LIKE to get some of that back with Obama's redictribution plan. i agree the bailout was wrong. so, let's keep the cycle going by doing some more bailing out more and more! let's just give everyone a bailout check! rootforamerica.com

thetammyjo -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync i have common sense. i have read a little about the fall of the NYSE in 1929. the recipe that for sure caused the depression was the raising of taxes by President Hoover. That is where the term "HOOVERVILLE" came from. the bailout has done very little to stop the recession. the only thing that can make it worse is raising taxes. Who is Obama raising taxes on? Not me, not my family, in fact not anyone we know except for one friend who inherited money from his father and is using it to revitalize neighborhoods. You know his response to the fact his taxes will go up? He's happy to pay it because he knows it's his patriotic duty to pay back the society that helped his father make his wealth and which enables him to do what he wants with that money. Claiming that Hoover caused the Depression is simplistic. That as now was a world-wide event. One nation can do little about it especially with so many international companies involved. There in lies one of the biggest difference in the 1920s and 1930s and now.

kittinSol -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:50:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync i agree the bailout was wrong. so, let's keep the cycle going by doing some more bailing out more and more! let's just give everyone a bailout check! Yes, because all those good-for-nothing working miscreants do nothing but beg for paychecks and tax-relief that would allow them a decent standard of living without having to worry over their children having to go without. How dare they, the lazy fucks?

LadyEllen -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:50:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync it is sharing the wealth! yes, but at least they earned it proudly! they all worked for that success. who wants a handout? not me! If we are to live then we must concede to be mutually dependent and reliant on others. We are social animals and form societies in recognition of our need for others to perform some functions for us just as we perform some functions for them. The whole of business is founded on just that interaction just as society is. In which case then, the individuals who have achieved success cannot be wholly responsible for that success; had their customers or suppliers not been present, able and willing then they would not have achieved that success. And following on from that, these individuals need necessarily also share in that success by the reasoning you're following. And expanding it past this single notional business - it exists in a world where it is dependent on many other companies and agencies and individuals and only prospers because of those many others, their presence, competence and efforts - so they should get a share too. And that so many successful businesses nowadays are only successful because they have offshored jobs - leaving locals unemployed and in the gutter, then these unfortunates' suffering is also part and parcel of the businesses success, so they should get a share as well. Luckily, we're not talking about any such thing with the current plan. But its interesting that your reasoning would allow for, indeed logically lead to such a socialist paradise. Here's the bottom line - I own a business and I employ six people. To do that I have put everything I own on the line. To even exist in our industry we have to have the lowest possible overheads in order to compete. I am not going to pay anyone more than theyre worth - and generally I'm looking for at least 2x their cost for them to be worthwhile to keep around. If we make a decent profit - thats mine - I took the risk, no one else - and I've already paid people to do their jobs and theyre happy with that. If I make a discretionary bonus payment from whatever profits I have, its to keep the good people around, not reward them for doing their job, but ultimately thats a business decision, not some idealistic socialism in action. And anyone that doesnt perform is out of the door. E

thetammyjo -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:51:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo So did McCain. In fact, if you can remember that far back he called off his campaign so he could help push that plan through then discovered that folks didn't like him taking time off for that and went back to the campaign. Obama isn't taking money from every business... in fact, pay attention to his plan and not to Republican rhetoric, he has plans for tax cuts for businesses that employ people in the USA. How is that not putting money back into the American economy and into the hands of Americans? quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Except you won't be getting it back, Obama is talking about taking money from people who would otherwise be rewarding their hard-working employees with significant raises, expanding their businesses and otherwise growing the economy. And Obama voted for that bailout package too, didn't he... quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I am totally lost here. Didn't Bush and Paulson just push through a massive wealth redistribution plan from the middle class (via a deficit that will need to be paid off) to the wea;thy finance companies and the six-figure employees there? I'd sure as hell LIKE to get some of that back with Obama's redictribution plan. i agree the bailout was wrong. so, let's keep the cycle going by doing some more bailing out more and more! let's just give everyone a bailout check! rootforamerica.com So you aren't voting for McCain then either, right? Since he pushed the bail out and is talking about other types of "bail outs" for other people.

bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:53:23 AM)
kitt i went to college, paid back my student loans! i am a single mother of 2 daughters, both in college. i do not own a business but i work for my pay. i have health insurance and a pension. i clothed and fed my kids all the while buying my home. guess what, i do not want a handout from the government. i am proud of my accomplishments. there are millions of women just like me!

giveeverything -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:54:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: what we call poverty in this country is rich in many countries! Dammit!!! Now, *THAT* little gem should've been somebody's campaign slogan.... ~p.t. barnum slut I laughed and snorted and choked on coffee. Well fucking done.

bestbabync -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:54:39 AM)
i voted early! i voted Bob Barr/Wayne Root! [:D]

giveeverything -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:55:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync i went to college, paid back my student loans! i am a single mother of 2 daughters, both in college. i do not own a business but i work for my pay. i have health insurance and a pension. i clothed and fed my kids all the while buying my home. guess what, i do not want a handout from the government. i am proud of my accomplishments. there are millions of women just like me! This is the case where the exception proves the rule. I'm glad for you, but you are not the norm.

thetammyjo -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:56:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync i voted early! i voted Bob Barr/Wayne Root! [:D] Then why not talk up your candidates and help them than slam others? I think it is far more persuasive to talk about what your candidate can offer than to attack others.

kittinSol -> RE: Obama plan a blast from the past. (10/30/2008 7:57:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync kitt i went to college, paid back my student loans! i am a single mother of 2 daughters, both in college. i do not own a business but i work for my pay. i have health insurance and a pension. i clothed and fed my kids all the while buying my home. guess what, i do not want a handout from the government. i am proud of my accomplishments. there are millions of women just like me! No, you're far too modest, you are special, an exception. The rest of us want a government handout because we didn't have your drive and determination.

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