RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment.

RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 3:08:19 PM)
quote: The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to allow us the means in which to overthrow the goverment when necessary. The goverment will be using Tanks and fully automatic weapons to continue their tyranny. Why shouldn't we be allowed to use the same? 1) No. 2) You are insane. If the U.S. military ever stages a coup, it will be over before you can grab even a fork. They truly are just that good.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 4:40:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JumpingJax Hunter? You seem to disagree with this point. Prehaps we should pay High school dropouts the same as we pay doctors? Course then what's the point in getting an education? This is only true when you speak of individuals. Corporations can easily change their registry to a more tax friendly country and then have no requirements to pay US Taxes. Eight U.S. presidents did not have a high school diploma. Ten Nobel prize winners did not have a high school diploma. Richard Branson and 17 other Billionaires do not have a high school diploma. George Eastman the founder of Kodak does not have a high school diploma nor did the Wright Brothers,Peter Jennings or Albert Einstein. You seem to be saying that a person who is stupid or ignorant needs less to eat...suffers less from the cold...has less of a need for timely medical care. If you could charge for the air we breath would you shut it off to those who could not pay? Why are you so stingy? We live in the richest country in the world and yet we have grinding poverty...why? All of the public land that is held in trust by the government belongs to us, yet the govt. rents it for as low as 50 cents per acre so that private enterprise can extract the mineral wealth,that belongs to you and me, of our country for their own personal gain. You probably ought to check with your tax professional to find out what the law is before you dispense tax advice on a public forum. H.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 5:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery You are both incorrect. By country, Hunter is correct. By individual city, however, D.C. is high on the list. DC's murder rate...that is the number of murders per 100,000 is about half of that of Compton Calif. H.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 6:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Eight U.S. presidents did not have a high school diploma. Ten Nobel prize winners did not have a high school diploma. Richard Branson and 17 other Billionaires do not have a high school diploma. George Eastman the founder of Kodak does not have a high school diploma nor did the Wright Brothers,Peter Jennings or Albert Einstein. You seem to be saying that a person who is stupid or ignorant needs less to eat...suffers less from the cold...has less of a need for timely medical care. If you could charge for the air we breath would you shut it off to those who could not pay? Why are you so stingy? We live in the richest country in the world and yet we have grinding poverty...why? I am saying that Knowledge is power and the more you know the better you will do. You don't need diplomas and degrees to be successful but you dang sure need an education. I pay money for experience, the more someone knows and the more unique his knowledge the more I am willing to spend for someone's time. I imagine that you are the same way wither you admit it or not. No we shouldn't have poverty in this country.... Fortunately we live in a country where everyone is afforded a free education. Higher education is also made available to anyone who is willing to work for it. There are very few real excuses for not taking advantage of the opportunities afforded to you.

SimplyMichael -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to allow us the means in which to overthrow the goverment when necessary. The goverment will be using Tanks and fully automatic weapons to continue their tyranny. Why shouldn't we be allowed to use the same? 1) No. 2) You are insane. If the U.S. military ever stages a coup, it will be over before you can grab even a fork. They truly are just that good. The military, any military, cannot keep down a populace that wants and is willing to fight, to throw them out. Look at Iraq, they are shitty fighters, they are not unified, and they are not related by family to the US troops they are killing. The US army could not prevent armed rebellion in the US, not if they tripled in size. That said, I like machineguns for fun, for the history behind them, and as a mechanical work of art. If I want to overthrow a government, give me a simple .22lr bolt action, I will build a suppressor and I can shoot people at 150 yards without anyone even knowing where the shot came from. With that, I could get any weapon, including a tank, that I wanted.

Musicmystery -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:39:41 PM)
How's your Air Force?

Naga -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:43:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Angam85 Surely the most unfortunate thing is that people feel the need to own a gun for protection. Does this not indicate a basic lack of faith in the ability of the national and local police authorities to protect the people? Are you sure that is their job? It isn't. The courts have stated that the police are under no obligation to protect you from anything. Generally, the police are simply historians recording what has already happened. Your own safety is in your hands. Having a firearm for self-defense is no more silly than having a fire extinguisher in case something catches on fire in your home. And you can keep a small problem from becoming a big, life threatening problem if you have the correct tool for the job. quote: Surely this need for gun owning is a sympton of a much more deep seated problem, rather than the problem itself. Actually, the symptom is the fear of firearms. And the deep seated problem is those who refuse to be responsible for their own safety. It suggests people who are held in a juvenile state and are unable to take care of themselves. quote: There are many civilised countries in the world where people simply do not feel a need to own a gun in order to be safe. Perhaps, as a nation, the USA still has something to learn about the role of government as an effective protector of the people ? Did you mean governments who did not feel safe with subjects owning fire arms? Countries that recognize the right and even encourage that right have the least violence. Countries that forbid and fear their subjects and strip those rights away have higher rates of violence.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:44:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JumpingJax quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Eight U.S. presidents did not have a high school diploma. Ten Nobel prize winners did not have a high school diploma. Richard Branson and 17 other Billionaires do not have a high school diploma. George Eastman the founder of Kodak does not have a high school diploma nor did the Wright Brothers,Peter Jennings or Albert Einstein. You seem to be saying that a person who is stupid or ignorant needs less to eat...suffers less from the cold...has less of a need for timely medical care. If you could charge for the air we breath would you shut it off to those who could not pay? Why are you so stingy? We live in the richest country in the world and yet we have grinding poverty...why? I am saying that Knowledge is power and the more you know the better you will do. You don't need diplomas and degrees to be successful but you dang sure need an education. I pay money for experience, the more someone knows and the more unique his knowledge the more I am willing to spend for someone's time. I imagine that you are the same way wither you admit it or not. No we shouldn't have poverty in this country.... Fortunately we live in a country where everyone is afforded a free education. Higher education is also made available to anyone who is willing to work for it. There are very few real excuses for not taking advantage of the opportunities afforded to you. I noticed that you cut off my quote after the question and before the statement. What is wrong with the government giving each citizen a piece of the pie. It is done in Alaska. If you want to call it welfare or socialism I don't much care. The fact is that it is neither. It is our money and we should be getting checques every month. Instead my money...your money is going to a bunch of rich asswipes who did nothing to earn it except bribe some public officials. Public education in this country is a world wide joke...good education for the upper class and just enough to keep from being illiterate for the rest. If we had true universal literacy in this country, if we were not conned into a "consumerism" life style, if we actually had a share of our birthright,there would be no need for the second ammendment. None of the above is true consequently the government...the demopubs and the republicrats...want to erase the second ammendment. If you were stealing from someone wouldn't you like to make sure that they would not have the means to take back what you had stolen? H.

Roselaure -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:49:26 PM)
Although I do not currently own any guns, i have in the past and cosider myself pro-gun. I am also fervently pro-Obama. "Obama's gonna take your guns!!!" is nothing but right wing screed.

Naga -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:50:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper The Supreme Court has ruled on the proper interpretation of the 2nd Amendment...only a further Constitutional Amendment or further Supreme Court decision can alter the landscape now. DC vs. Heller May Help, June, 2008. candystripper [sm=pole.gif] I think you are an optimist. DC vs Heller was pretty shaky and left a lot of room for interpretation. That would not stop the current group of democrats from trying to reestablish the Brady Ban again, with more limitations. And while it was being argued out in court, we would loose a number gun businesses. Never mind taking a sideways swipe on our rights. For example, the 500% tax on ammunition that "BO" has talked about in the past. Never underestimate a liberal who wants to enslave the populace. His avarice knows no bounds.

Musicmystery -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 7:52:31 PM)
quote: Never underestimate a liberal who wants to enslave the populace. His avarice knows no bounds. Unlike those thrifty Republicans.

TheBanshee -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 8:05:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Don't you find it interesting that the same people who are against setting a minimum wage are in favor or not having an upper limit on how much one can earn? It is OK to pay a person a wage that they can starve to death slowly on but making more money than one could spend if a hundred lifetimes is considered a worthy goal. Hatred of welfare for the poor is compensated for by love of welfare for the rich. H. Okay, this is an area that aggravates me. Minimum wage is not a living wage, that's true. It isn't intended to be a living wage. Flipping burgers or whatever McJob that pays the minimum wage should be filled by your local teenager or perhaps a retiree who enjoys the interaction without necessarily high pressure work. If you want s better wage - learn, educate yourself. Formal education isn't an excuse, there are many blue collar trades that earn a very decent living. Make yourself useful and you will be paid accordingly.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 8:32:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS It is our money and we should be getting checques every month. Instead my money...your money is going to a bunch of rich asswipes who did nothing to earn it except bribe some public officials. It isn't my money - it's the person who paid the taxes money. Taxes are a necessary evil but the tax system is completely unfair in this country. First and most important, the majority of the money paid in to the federal treasure is completely wasted. There is not one dang thing that the government does that couldn't be done cheaper and better by private industry. The other problem is there are way to many people getting unearned refunds. That is refunds that are given to people when they really didn't pay in to the system. Everyone always complains that poor people pay to much in taxes. But as far as I can tell POOR PEOPLE DO NOT PAY TAXES. Well not income tax at least. There are plenty of poor people out there still paying their cigarette taxes, can't find food for their babies but still managed to have money for smokes. quote: Public education in this country is a world wide joke...good education for the upper class and just enough to keep from being illiterate for the rest. If we had true universal literacy in this country, REALLY? Seems everyone else in the world has been able to take advantage of the education system we have in this country. State universities no matter where you go here are full of foreigners looking to better themselves. Everyone is given the opportunity but you have to work for it. quote: if we were not conned into a "consumerism" life style, You know I'm really not sure what this is? We are all consumers. There is no way I know of to avoid consuming something. Course then again I'm just another product of our public education system, so what the heck do I know about it? quote: if we actually had a share of our birthright,there would be no need for the second ammendment. That's that entitlement thing isn't it? We have no real birth rights. I don't care who you are everything you have can be gone tomorrow. quote: None of the above is true consequently the government...the demopubs and the republicrats...want to erase the second ammendment. If you were stealing from someone wouldn't you like to make sure that they would not have the means to take back what you had stolen? Frankly I'm not too worried about the 2nd ammendment.... I buy all my guns from my crack dealer, less paper work that way.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 8:36:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheBanshee quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Don't you find it interesting that the same people who are against setting a minimum wage are in favor or not having an upper limit on how much one can earn? It is OK to pay a person a wage that they can starve to death slowly on but making more money than one could spend if a hundred lifetimes is considered a worthy goal. Hatred of welfare for the poor is compensated for by love of welfare for the rich. H. Okay, this is an area that aggravates me. Minimum wage is not a living wage, that's true. It isn't intended to be a living wage. Flipping burgers or whatever McJob that pays the minimum wage should be filled by your local teenager or perhaps a retiree who enjoys the interaction without necessarily high pressure work. If you want s better wage - learn, educate yourself. Formal education isn't an excuse, there are many blue collar trades that earn a very decent living. Make yourself useful and you will be paid accordingly. Lets say you have a burger joint and you can only stay in business if you employ minimum wage people...what that says to me is that you do not really have a business...what you have is a subsidised enterprise. Subsidised by those who work for less than their time is worth. You get to make money by fucking someone else. Why is a teenager or a elderly persons time worth less than your time? Case in point: My neighbor...55 years old,licensed general contractor, certificates to his license from haz-mat to Hvac. The job he is currently working is coming to an end and he has his resume out. So far the best offer he got was twenty dollars an hour if he has his own tools and a late model pick up. Here is a man with plenty of experience and good references and they want to pay him twenty dollars an hour and he has to provide $100,000 worth of tools and a $40,000 vehicle. He lives in S.California in a tract shack that he pays $2500 a month rent. Now you may think a minimum wage job is not high pressure but that is because you have never had one. In my experience the lower the wage the higher the pressure. H.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 8:55:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Now you may think a minimum wage job is not high pressure but that is because you have never had one. In my experience the lower the wage the higher the pressure. My experience the higher the wage greater the pressure to preform. However the lower the wage the more physical and harder the work. Difference is getting paid for knowledge I had versus getting paid for doing a task that most anyone can do.

Joenextdoor -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 9:19:50 PM)
Any money an Alaskan receives from oil revenues belongs to Alaskans and is not welfare or socialism. None of that money was taken from one group of taxpayers and given to another. What Alaska does with its resources is entirely between the government of Alaska and its citizens, none of whom will be robbed so that others get a handout. As far as our education system, we spend more money per child than any country, so if our kids are not keeping up with their peers, then I say money is not the issue. We either have a problem with the system itself, with the parents who may not be as active as they should be, or with general sociatal influences, such as music and entertainment. I agree with you on the consumerism lifestyle. We have lived too long with and "easy credit, buy it now" attitude. Too many feel like they are supposed to have all the things their parents accumulated in a lifetime, only right now.Now, to get back to the 2nd Amendment...its funny, liberals are all about choice when it comes to abortion, but don't like extending that same choice to people who wish to own guns.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 9:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor .its funny, liberals are all about choice when it comes to abortion, but don't like extending that same choice to people who wish to own guns. ... it's funny, republicans are all pro-life when it's about abortion, but where is their pro-life stand when it comes to the death penalty?

Joenextdoor -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 9:46:02 PM)
OK, somehow I knew this would come up.....Really simple.....an unborn child has done nothing wrong, and a condemned killer has made his own choices. One side protects the innocent and punishes the guilty, the other side kills the innocent, and coddles the guilty..

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 9:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor OK, somehow I knew this would come up.....Really simple.....an unborn child has done nothing wrong, and a condemned killer has made his own choices. One side protects the innocent and punishes the guilty, the other side kills the innocent, and coddles the guilty.. The only problem with that argument is - ok well there are several problems with that argument. First there is no 100%. At least not usually. You never know when someone might be wrongly convicted. And if abolishing of the death penalty enables us to save just one innocent life then isn't it worth it? the other oxymoron in all of this is that the Republican party's base is far right Christian conservatives. Now don't Christians preach about forgiveness and repentance? I'm not saying we should just let all murders go free, common sense deems we must protect ourselves from them. But where is the forgiveness in the death penalty?

Joenextdoor -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 9:57:20 PM)
Well, let's see....with rare exception, abortion is 100% fatal to the child. Secondly, the condemned can ask God to forgive him at any time prior to his sentence being carried out. The death penalty is not about forgiveness, its punishment for crime.

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