RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment.

RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (Full Version)

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JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:05:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor Well, let's see....with rare exception, abortion is 100% fatal to the child. Secondly, the condemned can ask God to forgive him at any time prior to his sentence being carried out. The death penalty is not about forgiveness, its punishment for crime. Well tell that to the innocent man who get's wrongfully convicted. Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing is a sin, it doesn't matter if you shoot your neighbor in a robbery or if you kill your neighbor through the use of a court system. It is still murder.

mstrj69 -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:18:39 PM)
Unfortunately, being innocent does not automatically get you released from jail if you were convicted. Personally, I do not want to pay for all 1000 condemned people to live out their life in jail on the of chance one might be found to be not guilty after they have spent 50 years in jail or have already died in jail. The idea all innocent people will be found innocent shortly after their conviction is wrong and does not happen. The death penalty makes sure they will not kill again and is cheaper for the citizens whose taxes have to pay to keep the convicted in jail.

Joenextdoor -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:26:27 PM)
It sounds like you should direct your energy towards the trial/evidential areas. If those areas can be made better, then that would make the likelihood of an innocent person being executed much less. I am all for DNA testing, and even back testing people sitting on death row, since many of them were convicted prior to DNA. Its really not much difference to me between dying for a crime you did not commit, and wasting the rest of your natural life away in a prison hell for something you didn't do. Lets try this....lets tell the public that we are going to do away with the death penalty altogether, as well as long sentences for murder. You can now kill someone, and its either one year in prison, or a $1,000 fine. I wonder what will happen to the murder rate in this country? A sentence of any kind is as much a deterrent as it is a punishment.

michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:28:04 PM)
i'll just be glad when it's all over. will stay at home and either watch movie channels or DVDs in order to avoid the constant reminders that there's this election BS going on.

Joenextdoor -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:33:03 PM)
A man convicted with crystal clear DNA evidence, and/or solid eyewitness evidence or other solid evidence, should not sit on death row for 20 years while his lawyers make a mockery of the legal system at taxpayer expense. In these cases, give them 60 days for their lawyer to make one last appeal, and if that is lost, 24 hours to have visitations prior to it being carried out. For the others who are convicted on less than solid evidence, I think we could be patient while their lawyers run the appeals process, as long as they don't make a mockery of the system in the process.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (10/31/2008 10:37:52 PM)
ok going to quick reply to both of the ones above - and then hopefully I'll head off to bed. @mstrj69 = You are therefore saying that human life has a set dollar amount of value to it. That those innocent people are never going to be found innocent so we should just go ahead and kill them to save money. What should be the most money that we should spend in order to save someones life? I don't like spending so much money on inmates. And I do believe we could save a little of that money by maybe taking away their gym club memberships and their cable TV. BUT it is well worth that money to keep people safe. I don't support capital punishment period. @joenextdoor = I fully support life in prison sentences. In many way I would imagine that life in prison is a worse punishment then the death penalty (but hey what do I know never been in prison or dead). and yeah it is pretty bad for an innocent man to have to spend his life in prison - but at least it isn't as permanent as death, well until they die then it's pretty set in stone. Either way I don't support capital punishment period. @everyone = Oh just to clarify - I believe murder is a sin - doesn't matter if you said Guilty on a Jury or you walked up to someone and shot them in cold blood. SIN. When you die you will have to answer for such a sin to someone or no one (still unsure what really happens when we die, I'm waiting to die to find out for sure). So I don't support capital punishment period. (hi ho hi ho - it's off to sleep I go........... )

DomKen -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 12:11:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrj69 Unfortunately, being innocent does not automatically get you released from jail if you were convicted. Personally, I do not want to pay for all 1000 condemned people to live out their life in jail on the of chance one might be found to be not guilty after they have spent 50 years in jail or have already died in jail. The idea all innocent people will be found innocent shortly after their conviction is wrong and does not happen. The death penalty makes sure they will not kill again and is cheaper for the citizens whose taxes have to pay to keep the convicted in jail. Are you actually arguing that execution of innocent people is ok because it is cheaper than making a serious effort to establish guilt?

SimplyMichael -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 6:08:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery How's your Air Force? Probably as good as the Afganis and what would they do with the airforce anyway? Start bombing American cities? Civil wars can be won, widespread civilian uprisings are a vastly different story.

slvemike4u -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 9:51:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: mstrj69 Unfortunately, being innocent does not automatically get you released from jail if you were convicted. Personally, I do not want to pay for all 1000 condemned people to live out their life in jail on the of chance one might be found to be not guilty after they have spent 50 years in jail or have already died in jail. The idea all innocent people will be found innocent shortly after their conviction is wrong and does not happen. The death penalty makes sure they will not kill again and is cheaper for the citizens whose taxes have to pay to keep the convicted in jail. Are you actually arguing that execution of innocent people is ok because it is cheaper than making a serious effort to establish guilt? His post sure does read that way,doesn't it.....scary shit if you ask me.

TheBanshee -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 4:36:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: TheBanshee quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS Don't you find it interesting that the same people who are against setting a minimum wage are in favor or not having an upper limit on how much one can earn? It is OK to pay a person a wage that they can starve to death slowly on but making more money than one could spend if a hundred lifetimes is considered a worthy goal. Hatred of welfare for the poor is compensated for by love of welfare for the rich. H. Okay, this is an area that aggravates me. Minimum wage is not a living wage, that's true. It isn't intended to be a living wage. Flipping burgers or whatever McJob that pays the minimum wage should be filled by your local teenager or perhaps a retiree who enjoys the interaction without necessarily high pressure work. If you want s better wage - learn, educate yourself. Formal education isn't an excuse, there are many blue collar trades that earn a very decent living. Make yourself useful and you will be paid accordingly. Lets say you have a burger joint and you can only stay in business if you employ minimum wage people...what that says to me is that you do not really have a business...what you have is a subsidised enterprise. Subsidised by those who work for less than their time is worth. You get to make money by fucking someone else. Why is a teenager or a elderly persons time worth less than your time? Case in point: My neighbor...55 years old,licensed general contractor, certificates to his license from haz-mat to Hvac. The job he is currently working is coming to an end and he has his resume out. So far the best offer he got was twenty dollars an hour if he has his own tools and a late model pick up. Here is a man with plenty of experience and good references and they want to pay him twenty dollars an hour and he has to provide $100,000 worth of tools and a $40,000 vehicle. He lives in S.California in a tract shack that he pays $2500 a month rent. Now you may think a minimum wage job is not high pressure but that is because you have never had one. In my experience the lower the wage the higher the pressure. H. Subsidised enterprise? Its called supply and demand. For the record, I have worked for minimum wage. I don't anymore, that's true. If I owned a burger joint and there were no one who would work for the minimum wage I offered....then I'd have to offer more that would attract employees. If I was not sustaining an experienced staff, I would have to offer enough to retain those I wanted to keep. If I can't afford to pay them more - this would mean I'd have to increase the price of burgers. My patrons would have to pay more. Working a McJob is not intended to be a CAREER. I wasn't downplaying the role of the teen or a retiree - working as a cashier or a fast food joint is a learning experience. It is also a job that doesn't have a future. It doesn't require a high level of skills. Get a skill. Get educated. Learn a trade. No one owes you a living - the American dream is still here...but like always, you gotta work for it. Sometimes, you gotta work hard.

thishereboi -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 8:25:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrj69 Unfortunately, being innocent does not automatically get you released from jail if you were convicted. Personally, I do not want to pay for all 1000 condemned people to live out their life in jail on the of chance one might be found to be not guilty after they have spent 50 years in jail or have already died in jail. The idea all innocent people will be found innocent shortly after their conviction is wrong and does not happen. The death penalty makes sure they will not kill again and is cheaper for the citizens whose taxes have to pay to keep the convicted in jail. Actually, if you add up the cost of all the court appeals, a life sentence would be cheaper.

Kirata -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 9:23:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrj69 Personally, I do not want to pay for all 1000 condemned people to live out their life in jail on the of chance one might be found to be not guilty after they have spent 50 years in jail.... I've always felt that it was adding insult to injury to require the rest of us, who are collectively (and sometimes individually) the victims and survivors of crime, to pick up the housing, food, and medical care tab for somebody who has made a career out of preying on and/or killing us. But I also think that locking someone up in a box for the rest of his life so that he'll still be around in 20 years or so in case we discover that he's innocent, is bizarre in the extreme. We seem to think that we are thereby keeping our pretty little white souls clean, as if our means to that end was irrelevant. Only two solutions come to mind: Execution for violent criminals, or a new use for a large part of Alaska. K.

JumpingJax -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/1/2008 9:49:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Only two solutions come to mind: Execution for violent criminals, or a new use for a large part of Alaska. We could consider teaching them to HALO (not the game) and then drop them over cities like Tehran or Pyongyang armed with their weapon of choice.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:25:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor Any money an Alaskan receives from oil revenues belongs to Alaskans and is not welfare or socialism. Really...the classic definition is when the state gives state resources to the residents of that state without being compensated for it. None of that money was taken from one group of taxpayers and given to another. What Alaska does with its resources is entirely between the government of Alaska and its citizens, none of whom will be robbed so that others get a handout. As far as our education system, we spend more money per child than any country, Not so. http://www.oclc.org/reports/escan/economic/educationlibraryspending.htm so if our kids are not keeping up with their peers, then I say money is not the issue. We either have a problem with the system itself, with the parents who may not be as active as they should be, or with general sociatal influences, such as music and entertainment. I agree with you on the consumerism lifestyle. We have lived too long with and "easy credit, buy it now" attitude. Too many feel like they are supposed to have all the things their parents accumulated in a lifetime, only right now.Now, to get back to the 2nd Amendment...its funny, liberals are all about choice when it comes to abortion, but don't like extending that same choice to people who wish to own guns. My concept of gun contro is using both hands. I am also in favor of a womans right to choose. H.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:32:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JumpingJax We could consider teaching them to HALO (not the game) and then drop them over cities like Tehran or Pyongyang armed with their weapon of choice. Would you also be infavor of those countries doing the same over your city? Perhaps their criminal's weapon of choice might be a nuclear device. H.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:42:04 AM)
What you fail to understand is that the cost of labor represents a single digit percentage of the cost of doing business. Recently a restaurant I eat at raised its prices. I asked the manager why he had done so. He gladly explained that it was because the state had raised the minimum wage and he had to compensate for his increased costs. We sat down with pencil and paper and calculated how much more money he made by raising his prices...it amounted to about $4,000 a day. Then we calculated how much the cost of labor had gone up due to the increased minimum wage. He has 18 minimum wage employees out of a work force of about 50. His increase in wages amounted to less than $200 a day. He typically serves 2500 meals a day. He raised the price about $1.80 per meal. The restaurant chain is Hometown buffett. Hunter

Musicmystery -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:45:17 AM)
Hunter, The increase is single digits, but labor is the major cost of most business. However, as Peter Drucker, the famous management/economic guru noted, this should be treated as investment, not cost.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:48:20 AM)
quote: Lets try this....lets tell the public that we are going to do away with the death penalty altogether, as well as long sentences for murder. You can now kill someone, and its either one year in prison, or a $1,000 fine. I wonder what will happen to the murder rate in this country? A sentence of any kind is as much a deterrent as it is a punishment. The average time spent in this country for first degree murder is 8 years. If the law were one year or a thousand dollar fine for murder whom would you murder? If the answer is no one then why would you expect an increase in the murder rate? Are you that different than the rest of us? If you have a list of those you would murder then that would speak directly to your moral compass. That is that you have no qualms against murdering but only fear of punishment keeps you from doing so. H.

HunterS -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:54:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Hunter, The increase is single digits, but labor is the major cost of most business. Labor is not the major cost of most business. The major costs of most business are: Management salaries and compensation. Cost of raw materials. Advertising. Capital investment and debt service. H

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. (11/2/2008 6:56:17 AM)
Moloch: "Wheel chair = vegetable in my dictionary" Are you serious??? I know some paraplegics who could kick most ppl's ass both physically and mentally. Please consider a re-write to your dictionary... Or, to put it another way: when you drop that sweet ride you're posing with and break both legs and get confined to a wheelchair during your recovery, will that make you a veggie too? Just sayin'... ~Dave

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