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RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 10/31/2008 11:07:01 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Same to you and your's Merc.

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" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 41
. - 10/31/2008 11:14:34 AM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		I recommend most of you in this thread read not only the communist manifesto but also the virtues of capitalism (Arthur Seldon). There are some things only a government can do. Things such as national defense, response to emergency situations, and a few others (I cannot recall the proper categories atm). However, taxes for everything else IS socialism. We are already in a socialistic society. Electing obama is just a pit stop to gas up the bus to take us deeper into it. Keep in mind, the 10% bourgeois and 90% proletariat is no longer true (in fact, with the stock market and retirement plans it’s approximately reversed). Lastly, economic justice is not fairness.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: . - 10/31/2008 12:11:36 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		*sigh*

Thank goodness I can find some solace in the "baby hating pinko" thread in P&RS section.




_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to zenny)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: . - 10/31/2008 12:13:06 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		zenny,

I'd recommend people read the previous points before posting positions that ignore the problems with the positions they're posting.

Never gonna happen, but here's hoping.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: . - 10/31/2008 2:56:11 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		Indeed, Musicmystery. It is also further recommended for people to have facts to base their opinions upon. Also, to not represent their fallacious thoughts as facts. However, this is neither here nor there. As such I take my leave.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: . - 10/31/2008 5:17:56 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

Lastly, economic justice is not fairness.


....could you expand on that?

(in reply to zenny)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: . - 10/31/2008 11:57:38 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, the origonal post asked why would you call someone in a campaign something he is not. In the war for the minds and bodies to seize power you have to set you self apart from your opponent. As both canidates are very close alike in policy neither wants a close look or comparison of thier policies and rally around traditional battle cries and dogma that stir emotional without strong rational thought. Otherwise the people of this country would realize we are in a one party non capitalist system and upset the whole comfortable apple cart.

Respectively
BlackPhx

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/1/2008 12:06:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subenigmatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop



*smooch*

I miss my Dad.. he and I would have chats about politics, and he could (and DID) argue all sides.. he always helped me clarify my thoughts on the issues at hand.. *sigh*



I'm envious, I wish my Dad had done that for me, I could use some clarification on things.   The only thing my Dad did for me in terms of politics is send me a text message while I was waiting in line to vote, telling me to vote conservative *sigh*

Of course I promptly replied there is no compaigning allowed within 200 ft of polling places


*snort*

at my Dad's funeral, I said to my mom (they'd been divorced over 30 yrs) that *I* was why my dad had had the coronary.. she asked why.. I said cause I asked him for the West Wing DVD series for Christmas...

(mom laughed)

Even though my dad was somewhat of a conservative, he was well-versed on the politics of the country.. it was nice to have someone so educated on the subject to bounce my thoughts off of...


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polysnortatious
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CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to subenigmatic)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/1/2008 12:08:48 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Don't be such an alarmist scaredy- cat , Merc.


Didn't mean to alarm or scare you c.


Not to worry, Merc. I only find you scary when you are in drag.

http://s410.photobucket.com/albums/pp181/wyldspics/?action=view&current=2008_1021Steelbination20080032.flv



DAMMIT!! no soundcard!!   Merc... you're HAWT as a blonde!! 


_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/1/2008 5:18:31 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		cory, I hope you get of this approval thing soon....I never get to read much of what you write....it's just not fun to answer you days later!!!!!
Now be good and get off of approval!!!!!!!

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/1/2008 5:46:11 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Judging from what McCain says, I would have no idea if Obama was a Socialist or not. What the hell did he just say in that exchange? It makes no sense at all. I don't think this campaign has anything to do with socialism, capitalism, taxes, redistribution of wealth, or even Joe the Plumber. It has to do with the candidate that can make rational, intelligible point.  Gheez, where did the Republicans get this guy anyway?

Anyway, to the point of the OP. Socialism is a dirty word in this country so the McCain campaign has used it to attempt to smear his opponent. They haven't been very concerned with the reality of anything they have said so far, so why would they care if Obama really is a socialist or not? For a lot of people, just a word or term, even if they don't know what it means, is enough to change their thinking.

The truth is, we must have some Socialism. As in all things, there must be balance.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: . - 11/1/2008 8:47:57 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Well, there was a book I read that emphiszed the idea of economic justice was not fairness. In the book a teacher set himself up as a dictator collected ruinous taxes from the students, when one student objected he "hired" two large students to enforce the tax collections for a week. At the end of the week they bribed the enforcers and over powered the teacher. The students got back some of the money from the teacher and realized the enforcers had the rest. All the students felt it was fair to be returned all the money that was stolen from them and asked the enforcer to return the money they were paid. The enforcer pointed out they earned that money and it was thiers fair and square. Eventually, the student distributed the remaining collected taxes eavenly as they could and learned the lesson government can not be equally fair to all people, the best a government can hope to aspire is to be equally unfair to all involved.

Respectively
BlackPhx 

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: . - 11/2/2008 1:29:43 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I keep seeing that picture of Harry Trueman holding up the front page that says; "DEWEY WINS!"

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(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/2/2008 3:42:06 AM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		Puella..... the rethuglicans have Long used fear tactics against the general population. Attack/retract is standard operation in their play book. These methods have been in effect since WW 11.... what country supported the USSR by sending millions of $$$$ and FOOD annually ? If we hadn't supported them - there would have not been a cold war -which - was designed and perpetrated to keep money flowing to the military and defense contractors... fear mongering > the spread of Cummunism.... Korea, McCarthism, Vietnam, meddling in every country in Latin America with disasterous results to benefit a few American corporations - meddling in the Middle East for control of oil, with - disasterous results - totally ignoring Africa.. destroyimg public education to deliberately dumb down the population...... and with so many Americans still fearful of 'other' colors....... messages like - they're taking our jobs....using up our resources....... flames constantly being fueled by messages to 'beware' - 'be angry' and of course, it's Very Un-American of me to talk about this!

(in reply to twistedreality)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Now He's Not A Socialist... - 11/2/2008 3:57:51 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

Idealism does not directly equate to socialism.
Lack of proper control has brought the world to the brink of financial collapse. How this is still denied, I find somewhat baffling.


Actually there is control..it's called the free market, it's called the economic cycle.  The economy goes up, as it did through most of the Bush administration, people get to caught up in the upswing and excess develops.  The excess in the US mortgage market pre-dates Bush to the 1990s when banks were forced by regulatioon to take sub-prime loan, no credit check loans, etc in the interest of providing homes to all americans regardless of ability to pay, and than the banks sold the mortgages to FannieMae or FreddieMac, or to investment bankers who packaged them into tidy little MBS.  Everyone took their piece along the way...and the public loved it...people in California bought homes it seems to me to trade...not to live in...Some sucker was gonna come along and by your house for $100M or $200M more in a couple of years, and you would repeat the cycle.

We have had these economic cycles in the past and the depression of the 1930's did almost result in the change of the political system in the U.S.  Things are nowhere near that bad these days (25% unemployment v 6%' It still remains to be seen just how fearful people are when they get in the voting booth Tuesday.

People tend to get too exuberant when an investment is working...and overpay..gold, silver, stocks, oil, flowers!
As far as panics, none is more famous than the Tulip panic in Holland in the 1600's when the price of bulbs was bid up to rediculous prices, with one bulb making a man rich!.. At least with real estate...it's still there and can't be replaced.  We will get out of this mess in time..with pain..but we will get out of it..

                   http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_17/b3678084.htm

(in reply to MadAxeman)
Profile   Post #: 55
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