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Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 7:29:17 AM

Pimpernell

Posts: 198
Joined: 12/10/2005
Status: offline

Most people assume anyone with basic manners is a 'nice guy'(wimp), and are shocked when they stand up for themselves.

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

Can you tell the difference between a gentleman and a wimp at first meeting, or do you not know until you challenge him and he sets you straight?

Post #: 1

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 7:34:47 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Let's just say there will be many who tell you that you aren't really dominant if you don't throw your weight around at least occasionally.

Those are the people who you should also see with a large blinking sign over their head of "Not Right for Me."

Be yourself. It's the only thing that will work in the long term. And yes, in the long term, being a polite and courteous person will give you much better character and lend itself to a positive relationship much more than the caveman approach will.

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 2

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 7:59:43 AM

fastlane

Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline

A gentleman will open the door for his date, pull out her chair and drape her jacket across her shoulder's for her and give her a nice kiss goodnight.
A nice guy will tell her exactly what he wants from her, not exceed her limits and bring her ass to a nice pretty christmas red glow.

Ho, Ho, Ho

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 8:04:54 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

i have experienced two completely different type doms/masters....

as well as my mentor(master)...

i do best w/ gentle demands, that i know discipline will follow if i'm not pleasing or meeting my tasks as assigned.Sir has his stern side indeed...
unfortunately i had to challenge, he set me straight after welcoming me back home w/ open arms,
and my mentor, well he's the best!!
i go to him w/ all.........and he is always there for me, no matter the time or need.

i could have had complience beat into me but the person knew that would not change the fundimentals of me........... my beliefs are what they are...his level was not my level, no matter how much one wished for that road.a life's learning experience that i would not have missed for the world

as to the telling, i thought i would walk all over my sir, NOT!!! lol, i was waaaaaayyyyyyyy wrong.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 4

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 8:41:10 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

A gentleman will open the door for his date, pull out her chair and drape her jacket across her shoulder's for her and give her a nice kiss goodnight.
A nice guy will tell her exactly what he wants from her, not exceed her limits and bring her ass to a nice pretty christmas red glow.

Ho, Ho, Ho

YUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMY

(in reply to fastlane)

Post #: 5

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 9:44:21 AM

girl4you2

Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimpernell
Most people assume anyone with basic manners is a 'nice guy'(wimp), and are shocked when they stand up for themselves.

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

Can you tell the difference between a gentleman and a wimp at first meeting, or do you not know until you challenge him and he sets you straight?

i wasn't aware of the statistics about nice guys being wimps. i thought basic manners are just that--basic. i'm not out to be broken; instead i will bend a great deal. if a Dom is an a-hole in the very first meeting, there will be no other meetings.

i indeed can recognize a gentleman by his manners and how he treats others (the waitress, cab driver, doorman, etc.) as well as me. opening my door is another way that shows that i'm submissive to him; he decides when i get out and in, not me. when he opens the door for me to get out, it's also a wonderful time to pull my hair and head back while kissing me and letting me know in no uncertain terms that he's the Dominant and to know my place. he doesn't have to be rude to control my mind. he also will pull out my chair, order for me, and often play with me (under the table, whispering things to me, and more).

when we get home, he's still in control. there is no kiss on the forehead when i'm with a Dominant who's been a gentleman. there is anything he wishes that fits our choices/limits. for that is the role of a good submissive, to please her Dominant, and to have him controling me from the initiation of the meeting. at least that's been the way with the Dominants that i've had long term relationships with. it worked for us. i can't see changing course and having my next Dominant be a clod.

_____________________________

maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 6

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 10:47:10 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

i keep hearing this hype over--breaking a sub/slave but no one...and i mean no one has stepped up to the plate to explain EXACTLY what it means//

anyway
to the topic
nice guys/gentlemen/// i thought it was the same.
being a Dom...does not mean you have to be a butthead......
as with most things in life./..a look...a sign...a voice level...all of these should tell is he man enough to be a He.
and then
is the sub/slave catching-on or missing the clues?
time tells all.
give 2 people enough time together and sooner than later they both know what is what.

i have said it before-
i have some male friends that are Doms.......and they do not have to be a butthead to get their message across to the girl.
i have seen it 1st hand.

but hell
works the same for dommes too
that look
that stance/ that body language
that voice

all are signs saying --yeah, i mean business.

take care everyone

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 7

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 11:21:45 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimpernell

Most people assume anyone with basic manners is a 'nice guy'(wimp), and are shocked when they stand up for themselves.

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

Can you tell the difference between a gentleman and a wimp at first meeting, or do you not know until you challenge him and he sets you straight?

I'm very dominant. The California Psychological Inventory administered when I was seeking entrance to a doctoral program rated me in the fourth standard deviation above normal in that characteristic.

This means that I seek to control my environment for my pleasure and those I care about.

However, in the real world, people with that much displayed dominance are often seen as jerks or arseholes.

For this reason, I've found that I needed to divide the world into "signifiance" and "who gives a shit" based on real world criteria. From there, I've learned to adopt a facade of uncaring acceptance in the face of the second group.

It may seem unfeeling, but when I meet a new potential play partner, I'm pretty much in "who gives a shit" mode. I don't order her around, don't tell her what to wear or eat and if she behaves badly the most I'll say is "that really wasn't well said/done." This comes from two cognitive decisions. The first is kind of a global approach. I find if I let my normal drives play, I end up telling coworkers where to each and what I want them to do. (Not a good thing with nonconsenting fellow workers.) Until she gives me her consent, a potential play partner is still in the same category as anyone off the street.

Aside, once in the Marines, a Command Sgt, took the time to tell me to "cool it; don't be such a martinet." When a Marine Sgt thinks someone is behaving like a martinet, that person has command issues. I listened.

The second reason for keeping the dominance throttled down on a first meeting is that taking control takes a lot of time and energy. Before I put in that effort, I want to know if she's worth it.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 8

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 12:15:20 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

If a Dom is a a hole at the first meeting in my case a least there would not be a 2nd meeting. Being a Dom does not me you have to be a jerk you can srill be nice. My Late Master was a nice guy not a whimp but still a nice guy. You can be a strong Master and still be nice in my eyes at least.

littleone

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 9

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 1:27:11 PM

windy135

Posts: 437
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline

I've met a Dom I couldnt keep straight. He was definetly an a hole but I was not responding to this. I want a Dom not a d**k head! It turns me off and I end up not respecting him nor feel like being submissive to him. It's ok to be nice and a gentleman but know when to lay down the law. I think this is a great combo. Oh and be yourself.. do what comes natural.

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 10

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 2:40:30 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

My Master has practiced martial arts for over 20 years. Martial arts isnt really about learning how to fight, its about knowing yourself and understanding your opponent, in which you find out more about yourself. Every martial arts has a list of tenants, designed to cultivate the personality, if someone practices martial arts correctly they become a very well-rounded individual, filled with a quiet, yet profound confidence and it is very easy for them to take control of a situation without having to *force* their hand in any way.

Saying this, Masters Dominance/Mastery of me is not reliant on him *trying* to assert his power over me. It is a subtle undercurrent that is just there due to the establishment of some very good qualities within himself. His knowledge of *self* just naturally exudes a power over lifes situations and of course me.

He opens doors for me, he picks me flowers, he listens to me when i feel i have something to say, he asks me for advice occassionally. None of these things make him a wimp, or less of a Master. He can also be demanding, harsh, strict and evil. He has nothing to prove.

All of these things show that he is completely self assured and is in actual fact, a Master.

To answer your question, i respond very well to this *grin*

quote:

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

First meetings are not enough time to assess someones character. If someone was an a-hole or very kind at the first meeting, it wouldnt tell me that much about their personality,i would reserve my judgement till after some time.

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 11

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 3:04:36 PM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimpernell

Most people assume anyone with basic manners is a 'nice guy'(wimp), and are shocked when they stand up for themselves.

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

Can you tell the difference between a gentleman and a wimp at first meeting, or do you not know until you challenge him and he sets you straight?

IMHO, this is the difference between dominant and domineering--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 12

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/15/2005 11:57:57 PM

Pimpernell

Posts: 198
Joined: 12/10/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for the replies.

I deliberately left the terminology vague to get a variety of viewpoints.

The distinction I would make between nice guy and gentleman.
If you stand up a nice guy for a date ie not turn up and not even call to cancel, he will let you keep doing it, excusing your behaviour, but start to act passive aggressive unconciously.
If you stand up a gentleman, he will tell you it's unacceptable behaviour the first time, and dump you the second time.

A lot of women don't respect nice guys because they put up with their bad behaviour, when bad boys won't. Unfortunately until challenged, a gentleman seems no different than a nice guy. So I wonder if some girls can't tell the difference and dismiss them both automatically.

quote:

opening my door is another way that shows that i'm submissive to him; he decides when i get out and in, not me. when he opens the door for me to get out, it's also a wonderful time to pull my hair and head back while kissing me and letting me know in no uncertain terms that he's the Dominant and to know my place. he doesn't have to be rude to control my mind. he also will pull out my chair, order for me, and often play with me (under the table, whispering things to me, and more).

.

Thanks for that girl4you2. I'll remember to use it in future. It also reminds me of my last girlfriend who would put her legs all over me in public, and then complain I was always touching her.

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 13

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 3:02:43 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimpernell

Most people assume anyone with basic manners is a 'nice guy'(wimp), and are shocked when they stand up for themselves.

I actually need someone who is a "nice" guy. Don't get me wrong , as i am sure my Sir will get tough on me if need be.

How do subs and slaves respond to Masters who are like zen masters rather than those who try to break you like they do horses? (no offence to ponyslaves)

Its all in the individual

Do you lose interest unless a Dom is Masterful to the point of being an a-hole in the very first meeting?

yuppers

Can you tell the difference between a gentleman and a wimp at first meeting, or do you not know until you challenge him and he sets you straight?

Its easy to tell

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 14

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 3:57:14 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I like a man who can be affectionate and touchy. But foremost, I want to see strength, some agression, and definitely someone who is can take charge of the situation from the outset. I don't like to test someone by setting up "challenges" to see how they react. I prefer to see how things flow naturally.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)

Post #: 15

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 6:08:29 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
First meetings are not enough time to assess someones character. If someone was an a-hole or very kind at the first meeting, it wouldnt tell me that much about their personality,i would reserve my judgement till after some time.

I'd disagree on the length of time to assess character- at least to the point of "Do I want another date with this person?"

If a dude acted like a dumbass on a solo first date with me, they aren't getting another one for a long time, if ever. Luckily, they will have opportunities to give me more information and insight if they go to public events, but my time is VERY reserved.

Sure I've changed my mind on a few people after spending some more chunks of time with them, both in good and bad ways. But if you want to date me regularly, I'm not going to waste time giving you more chances when there are other opportunities where I already know I'm going to enjoy myself.

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 16

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 5:11:36 PM

Tristan

Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline

Common courtesy and good manners are often a sign of inner strength and personnel integrity. They are often a sign that a person has the self confidence to interact with others on an equal basis without resorting to threats or put downs. I find that many who do not have common courtesy are also people who do not have self confidence or respect for others. However, not all with common courtesy are dominant.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 17

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 5:18:06 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

The second reason for keeping the dominance throttled down on a first meeting is that taking control takes a lot of time and energy. Before I put in that effort, I want to know if she's worth it.

JohnWarren

That makes perfect sense; being dominated is a thrill, especially coming from someone who might be the One. Why would any Man display such conduct at first meeting? It's a silly as expecting us to behave submissively at first.

candystripper

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 18

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 5:38:28 PM

cravinspankin

Posts: 127
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

I have recent met and am getting to know a Dom with nearly 40 years experience.
He has a strong, commanding personality, but he is very much a gentleman, with impeccable manners, and in public treats me completely like a lady.
His dominance is a quiet one.
But all of that in no way makes him a wimp in my eyes. It only serves to strengthen my respect for him and desire to please him.

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 19

RE: Gentlemen vs Nice Guy - 12/16/2005 8:00:44 PM

sanita

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline

If there are men in this world that want a classy lady in public, and a tiger/harlot/whore/fuckslave in private, there are subs in this world that can respect a gentleman who can Dom their ass while being kind to it.

For what it is worth, in my opinion, Dominance is a trait. So is humor. So is kindness or generosity. So, for that matter, is being a pushover. If a sub wants a Dominant that is a pushover, then they'll get one. Maybe a sub wants a Dom/me who will have flashes of Badass when provoked. Okeydoke.

i hear vanilla men griping about why women don't want the "nice guys!" Well, i think nice guys are attractive. It is the griping that would make me step away.

To answer the OP's questions:

i respond well to a Dom that speaks softly and carries a big stick. Patience and humor, and being able to communicate with respect, are all plusses for me. If He tells me it is time to shut up and obey, if i respect Him, i'll do it.

My new boss is a very controlling, very commanding a-hole. Doesn't make him Masterful. So no, i would not lose interest if a guy were not an a-hole.

"Gentleman" does not mean "wimp" in any way to me. i can't imagine setting two people side by side, and thinking one is a wimp, while one is a gentleman. As far as challenging... i like a Dom that challenges me.

-----------

My Master? Badass. But every once in a while i call Him "Sweetie Pie Badass" and that is just fine. If i am sick, He fusses over me. If i am entering a building, He gets the door. It may have something to do with control. He can survey what is in front of and behind us, while opening the door.

And as He just told me on the phone, His grandfather always told Him: "If you can't take 10 seconds to hold a door open for a woman, you aren't a man."

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to Pimpernell)

Post #: 20

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