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Tens units - 8/5/2004 3:06:29 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		Can someone with real experience, please explain them to me in detail? I have been asked to do some research, and thought this might be the best place. Everyone is always so helpful. I had a Dom warn me not to involve those. He had said that a submissive somewhere in Texas had been electrocuted, when the power surged. Is that a real danger? And if so, is there a way to eliminate it? Would a surge supressor be that solution?

Thanks again in advance,
Myra
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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 3:18:58 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Hello Myra... hope You are well today.

There is a similar thread on the general board

Whats the difference?

I havent heard of deaths from a TENS due to surges... but I guess it would be possible... but then.. that could be said for any electrical implement during a power surge... but I do know that if You have a heart condition or high blood pressure etc... You shouldnt use one, because it can interfere with heart rythms... even when I was pregnant and used one I had to confirm my health...(they are used in medical reasons to help lessen pain... boy do they work..lol)

< Message edited by dark~angel -- 8/5/2004 3:20:04 PM >

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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 5:24:41 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		I have a small battery powered tens unit. I don't think you can get a power surge on that. I love it. I have used it on nips and pussy but not directly on the clit, was warned not to do that. And Master used it on the side of his cock at very low intensity. The sensation is hard to describe, sort of a warm deep vibration. It's used in medicine to stimulate muscles.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 5:38:43 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		dark angel and proudsub,
Thanks for the information and advice. proud, I think I would absolutely love that sensation...lol. But, that is still yet to be seen.

Ya'll take care of yourselves, and don't do anything I wouldn't do....

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 5:56:32 PM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		I have some experience with TENS in the bedroom and a lot more as part of my career.

First, the power surge thing is a myth because TENS units are battery powered. I suppose such a thing is possible with a violet wand which uses a very different kind of electricity and is plugged in to the wall but I really don't know.

That doesn't mean TENS don't have the potential to be dangerous. The real danger is the heart. The current a TENS puts out is designed to stimulate muscle contraction and doing this on the heart can disrupt it's function ireparably.

Your epidermis is very resistive to electricity, not so for the tissues underneath (mostly due to water content). This means that a level of charge which has a minor or pleasant effect when applied to the skin can have a much stronger effect if the skin is punctured or if used on a mucous membrane.

Most kinky electricity experts will say the best way to be totally safe is to keep it "below the belt" and this will certainly keep you safe. In the world of "legitimate usage" for muscular therapy or chronic pain, we use it above the waist all the time. It is common to put two electrodes on different parts of the back and this is generally considered safe (on intact skin).

What you should NEVER do is place one electrode on the front of the torso and another on the back! Frankly, I would just avoid the front of the torso, the neck, and the head altogether without expert suppervision. Also, never get wet while using one (no, that's not what I meant--I mean don't put water on or around you while doing it) unless you REALLY know a lot about electricity and TENS.

Most people use them on the skin over large muscle groups (like buttocks) to illicit involuntary muscle contractions which can be entertaining and can feel good or be torture depending on intensity. Don't go TOO heavy on the torture end or you could end up with a muscle strain. Like anything else there are risks if you are stupid but it's pretty safe.

A more adventurous use is on the genitals or in the anus. This can be VERY intense and requires some care. There are even special attachments for insertion in asses, pussies, and urethras(!).

TENS units can be buoght online now for about $100 bucks. They are designed for therapy. There is another product designed for sex which costs a lot more and uses different wave forms designed specifically for sexual response. I have not had any experience with one of those (though I would like to). The safety concerns are the same.

Hope that helps.

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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 6:05:40 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		I'm short on time at the moment, but I have quite a bit of experience on both ends of the wand. Surges are always possible with any device you plug in, but if you run it into a surge supressor unit first, you should be fine, also battery powered units are normally safer for initial play anyway as it's less voltage. Do you have any specific questions regarding a Tens or just a generalized inquiry?

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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 8:32:51 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		WayHome,
Thank you very much for that detailed info. I didn't know anything at all about them. Yet, that still intrigues me. I will definately take your advice to heart.

afmvdp,
I appreciate you as well. I was more or less, just looking for general information. Mostly, wanting to know the dangers involved, and the pros. I'm a bit fascinated with using electricity as a form of sexual arousal.

(in reply to WayHome)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 9:19:46 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WayHome

TENS units can be buoght online now for about $100 bucks. They are designed for therapy. There is another product designed for sex which costs a lot more and uses different wave forms designed specifically for sexual response. I have not had any experience with one of those (though I would like to). The safety concerns are the same.

Hope that helps.



There are actually a number of units on the market that are designed specifically for BDSM play. Most of them are variants of a TENS with much more interesting attachments.

I own two Folsom PSG-Max units. The straight PSG (I think it's called the 220) can be plugged into the wall or run from batteries. It is not recommended for above the waist play because it can be plugged into the wall. The PSG-Max unit can not be plugged into the wall and has "nipple clamps" that can be purchased for safe play above the waist. As you say, the need to understand current and conductivity is important if you intend to play above the waist. For the most part the idea is to not run the current across or through the chest wall. Truth to tell, the unit is probably too weak to do much harm, but why risk it?

The nipple clamps that are designed with this unit are bi-polar. That means you get ONE current that runs from one side of the clamp to the other side of the same clamp. Essentially its crossing less than half an inch in the body to close the circuit, so penetration into the chest wall is not an issue. Even if you use both clamps, one on each nip, you still never get a current across the chest. The unit has two isolated channels and they are never on at the same time (although you can turn it up fast enough that it SEEMS like one continuous jolt). So you can have a clamp on each nip and play until your heart is content (or exhausted) and you are not in danger of fibrillation.

I never play with sticky pads or single pole toys above the waist, but using a bi-polar toy in this way is safe. To my knowledge the PSG-Max unit is the only unit that is safe above the waist (if used properly), but the truth is that i haven't kept my finger to the pulse of the newest stuff out there in a few years. It's possible another manufacturer has produced something similar.

The insertible toys are a lot of fun and it's possible to get a variety of sensations depending on your choice of toy/s alone or in combination, how you set the frequency and intensity, and where you place the positive or negative contacts.

OMRON (I think that's how it's spelled) makes some interesting TENS units that have an assortment of settings that can make for a wider assortment of sensations, but don't have quite the power that I found the PSG to have. They can be purchased for about 100.00 (or so it was the last time I priced them), but they don't offer all the kewl attachments that a unit made for bdsm does. So the question is what is your goal for this sort of play?

When I bought my psg-max units they were going for about 350 to 375 a piece. I've been told they are up to about 425 now. The nipple clamps run about 95.00 a set, the plugs and dongs around 200. Cock rings can range anywhere from 25 to 65 bucks a piece, single pole toys can be about 25.00 or more but you need to use two (to get a closed circuit). I've also got cathetars, an electro whartenburg wheel, a straight prod. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. As I said, the units made for bdsm play have interesting attachment options that a standard TENS won't offer.

I don't recommend playing with these things unless you have some understanding of how current flows and the anatomy and physiology involved, but with a bit of knowledge and a liberal amount of common sense it can be done safely.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to WayHome)
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RE: Tens units - 8/5/2004 11:37:38 PM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		Hey Suz,

Aside from the attachments, the ones made for BDSM are supposed to have different frequencies and such that are better for what we want.
Do you have any "side by side" comparissons that might confirm or debunk that?

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Tens units - 8/7/2004 7:58:01 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I've played with a number different TENS units that were made for therapeutic use, one of the OMRON units being one of them. I've also played with the PSGs and with the PES units (Paradise Electro-Stimulations).

I usually tell people that ask about my PSG units to "Think of a TENS on steroids." I think the psg units have probably some of the strongest bang for your buck, although the PES unit is up there too. I enjoy electro above the waist and will only use the PSG for that. PES has got some interesting toys as well, but the toys are not easily interchangable with each other (meaning a psg toy doesn't work with a pes toy). The connectors are different (or they used to be).

There's another box out there called the HottBoxx, but I haven't played with it. I've also seen huge boxes with all sorts of different settings, etc. As I said, if you're wanting to do only below the waist play and are willing to use just sticky pads then many of the TENS units can get a wider assortment of sensations because they have so many different settings. I prefer the PSG unit because it seems to pack a stronger punch, the channels are isolated and insulated so there is no chance of cross currents, and they have more toys.

If you're only looking for light stim, externally and below the waist then I recommend one of the inexpensive OMRON or other TENS units. I've played with inexpensive TENS units that are made for BDSM play (the Rambo, for example) and found them to be pretty inferior although I believe these are the devices that make the remote control unit. If you keep fresh batteries in it they can be kinda fun in the right situation.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to WayHome)
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RE: Tens units - 8/9/2004 1:18:51 AM   
UtahGoddess


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline 		Here is an excellent website chock full of info

Ms Sandi
http://www.uncleabdul.com/UAweb10.htm

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

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RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 7:58:26 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Can someone with real experience, please explain them to me in detail? I have been asked to do some research, and thought this might be the best place. Everyone is always so helpful. I had a Dom warn me not to involve those. He had said that a submissive somewhere in Texas had been electrocuted, when the power surged. Is that a real danger? And if so, is there a way to eliminate it? Would a surge supressor be that solution?


I'd seriously be questioning this Doms credentials here. Obviously he has gotten some bad information in a chat room someplace. He has zero experience with any tens units.
A tens does not plug into the wall. A tens runs off of a 9 volt battery, so no it cannot under any circumstance be fatal. There are no power surges because it is not running off of A/c power.

Perhaps the Dom needs to do some research instead of having others do all of his learning for him. He would'nt be spreading so much bad info.

(in reply to SentForu)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 8:19:01 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		I just figured that she confused a Ten and a Wand...hell I've heard some people try to tell me the difference between a Violet Wand and a Tesla coil. So it takes all kinds.

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RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 9:24:59 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I just figured that she confused a Ten and a Wand...hell I've heard some people try to tell me the difference between a Violet Wand and a Tesla coil. So it takes all kinds.



Perhaps she did. I am not faulting her in the least. It is the lazy alledged Dom who is to blame here. If he did a bit of his own research he may learn a thing or two. This is why nobody can agree on anything within the lifestyle.

I deal with a lot of newbies. It seems to be the rage. People pushing others off because they are too lazy to do any work themselves. I am all for education.
I guess I've had too many of these experiences of late.

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 9:47:25 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire



A tens runs off of a 9 volt battery, so no it cannot under any circumstance be fatal. There are no power surges because it is not running off of A/c power.



As posted earlier, the issue with a TENS unit, or any electrical toy that stimulates muscle response, can be fatal if it interferes with the heart. To say that "it cannot, under any circumstances, be fatal.." is inaccurate. The risk isn't in the volts... its where those volts, ohms, amps, etc are applied.

~Thorns

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"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

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RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 10:21:05 AM   
WayHome


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
As posted earlier, the issue with a TENS unit, or any electrical toy that stimulates muscle response, can be fatal if it interferes with the heart. To say that "it cannot, under any circumstances, be fatal.." is inaccurate. The risk isn't in the volts... its where those volts, ohms, amps, etc are applied.

~Thorns


Very true. The real risk is the heart and that is why so many use the simple safety rule "keep it below the waist". You won't get into trouble that way and if you run out of fun things to do down there you are lacking creativity.

As an extreme example, there have been people in hospitals who have died as a result of the small static charge caused by a nurse wearing nylons and rubber soled shoes just walking around and then touching them. This happenned because the patients had tiny wires inserted directly into the heart for pacing or for monitoring and just happenned to get the right tiny zap on the right wire at the exact right moment to disrupt normal rhythm. Obviously that is a special situation but it demonstrates how tricky electricity can be in relation to the human body.

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RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 10:30:31 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		True, I should have stated do not cross the heart. Remembering back to geez probably 15 years ago on the net seeing photos of electrodes strapped to peoples nipples. Made me wince then and it would do the same now.

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RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 2:19:48 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

True, I should have stated do not cross the heart.


Gloria do you think it is safe to put both electrodes on one nip? thus not crossing the heart. I love using the tens on my nips. Would this be safe for someone with very large breasts, a lot of tissue between the electrodes and heart?

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Tens units - 8/20/2004 3:40:49 PM   
SentForu


Posts: 303
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Middle Tennessee
Status: offline 		Wow, I thought this thread had already died. Well, you're probably right, he should have researched on his own. But, his information had made me curious as well. As I have stated over and over, I have no experience with this lifestyle. I'm just out to learn as much as I can right now.

afmvdp,
LOL, I could not tell you the difference between any of those. There are just so many different things which can be involved in this lifestyle. And, I'm way too curious about it all.

Once again, thank ya'll for the info....

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Tens units - 8/28/2004 3:05:28 AM   
TheSadisticOne


Posts: 18
Joined: 4/15/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with most of what I've read here. the amperage component of electricity is what kills . . . not necessarily the voltage. I have yet to hear of a death from a tens style machine. crossing the heart muscle with 'current' can disrupt the natural rhythm of the heart and in extreme cases, cause the heart to stop beating. it is important for the person 'administering' to be competently trained in CPR for this very reason. being able to keep blood and oxygen flowing in the event of an arrest, can be a valuable asset. that being said, the over-the-counter machines are safe when used as directed(that means READ the directions). if it say do not use above the waist, DON'T... I personally own a 'HottBoxx' that is battery operated (9volt) and will not use a unit that plugs into AC. I have the 'rimba' breast cups and nipple clamps along with numerous 'insertion' toys. I strongly advise that before electricity is used on someone else, the 'administrator' wire themselves and run through the full range of voltage strengths and wave shapes so that they KNOW exactly what their slave is receiving. this is not an activity that you should trust to 'feedback' from the recipient. there are many sites to reference and a quick internet search of 'electro-stimulation' will get you started. read as much as you can find and play with Someone that is knowledgable.

enjoy!

(in reply to SentForu)
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