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MrRodgers -> RE: Japan not the aggressor in WWII (11/4/2008 9:26:42 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Manifest Destiny, the genocide of the pains Indians (which was planned, read Ulyses Grant). You don't need to have two eyes to recognize such open imperialism.
The US has does nothing of the sort. We educated, trained and wanted to trade with those. That trade although on a very small scale, aided the countries we protected much more than exploited it. The Philipine archipelago by itself offered us very little except a good Pacific location for a navy base after WWII when we finally got the Japanese out.
You sound like a Brit defending the British Empire. Educating, training and trading with the savages.
Get a grip on the continuing loose use of terms imperalist colonialism. That in its actual form...forces another society upon yours, govt., military, your courts, your law, your education and all of civil society.
You said America was educating and training people because you wanted to trade with them. You imposed trade on people in the same way the Brits imposed trade on people. That in anyone's book is imperialism.
You've got troops in over 40 countries around the world and you may say most of those governments want you there, most governments wanted the Brits in the days of the empire. That is not to say most people in those countries want you anymore than people wanted the Brits and even when they did and do, it is usually to be defended by one bully from a worse bully. It is still colonialism but I understand your wish not to see it that way, most Americans don't like the reality of their foreign policy because it goes against American national myth but then Americans are just about the only people in the world that claim the USA isn't an empire. Just as most Americans claim they are a peaceful nation while having a military that is bigger than the other 18 NATO members put together, plus Russia and plus China and probably plus India.
Yes, as I have written, the U.S. govt. and military's solution for the American Indian was among the darkest periods in our short history. And even though what we did to them had been done all throughout history. This means of course that all of those countries today could still be labeled murderous butchers and colonial imperialists for the acts that for over 1000 years...their predecessors committed.
So we could call the Asians and their Mongol products, Persians, Greeks, Romans, most resulting European tribes/countries...all still muderous butchers or imperialist colonialists.
The difference in modern history is that first I think the Austrians and Russians tried to swallow up their neighbors. Then the Japanese built the worlds most powerful navy and brought real modern warfare to the Pacific islands. What was the Japanese fear ? American colonialism ? Hardly. It was that we were in their way to accomplishing just that in the Pacific.
Yes, we have troops in many countries and you wish to extend that fact to mean they are a measure of our colonialism and yet forget the question of this whole post. Who were the aggressors...
We do not control the German govt. or society and in fact spent to rebuild them. Even the treaty of Versaille while one-sided for sure, did not 'colonialize' Germany.
We do not control the Japanese govt. or society and spent money to help rebuild them.
We do not control the S.Korean govt. or society and have given them foreign aid to help rebuild civil society since that war. Ditto for Puerto Rico.
So just who has been history's aggressors and who is now ?
The whole argument rests on the idea that we do NOT and did not render complete control of their govt. In Japan we had McCarther there too but guess what...he and we left the Philipines and Japan. Colonialists...don't leave, they have to be thrown out.
All of the above would be our absolute legal, governmental and civil possessions if we hadn't left and they are not now and never were to be so-called American colonies and the whole suggestion of Amrican 'empire' is absurd when maeasured against ALL of history.
In modern history, our enemies have been the murderous butchers (aggressors) and did in fact take over all of aspects of society in their favor...we did not.
Now I am going to put the onus on you...pleae describe in detail all of the American colonies and each country in detail, how we are their colonial imperialist masters.
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