quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Japan was waging a war of conquest against an American ally....China.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I have distorted nothing.  If there is any distortion it is in your head.  Where on earth did you come up with the Americans paying China to hire the AVG?  That is a lie and you well know it.
Roosevelt gave the Chinese 25 million dollars in 1940.  The AVG only cost them 8 million.
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/72-38/72-38.htm



The P40B was considered an inferior aircraft even by the US.  The engines were too weak and the plane did not even have a targeting site for its guns.  That is why they came out with a newer model.  It was not just an inferior aircraft to the zero, it was inferior to most other aircraft of the time.  Th fact that the AVG did so well was due to superior piloying and tactics, not the aircraft.
In 1940 the U.S. had the p38,p39,p40 and the f4hellcat and the Brewster Buffalo.  For purposes of both use and availability the P40 is the only logical choice.  At the time it was as state of the art as fighters got in the U.S.



The Avg was not incorporated into any airforce.  It was disbanded.
Its commander and all of its aircraft and supplies became part of the 14 airforce.



Chenault was retired prior to forming the AVG.  Deny it all you want but the dates on record show that he was retired.
If he was retired how was it that he was awarded the distinguished service medal for his work with the AVG.  You can only be awarded medals in the U.S. military for service as a member of the armed services.  We do not give military medals to civilians.  It might also interest you that ten of the "civilian" pilots of the AVG were also awarded the distinguished flying cross.  Again... the military does not give medals to civilians.

I have no more time for lies and fairy tales from you.
If you feel incompetent to discuss this further that is your choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I have distorted nothing.  If there is any distortion it is in your head.  Where on earth did you come up with the Americans paying China to hire the AVG?  That is a lie and you well know it.
Roosevelt gave the Chinese 25 million dollars in 1940.  The AVG only cost them 8 million.
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/72-38/72-38.htm



The P40B was considered an inferior aircraft even by the US.  The engines were too weak and the plane did not even have a targeting site for its guns.  That is why they came out with a newer model.  It was not just an inferior aircraft to the zero, it was inferior to most other aircraft of the time.  Th fact that the AVG did so well was due to superior piloying and tactics, not the aircraft.
In 1940 the U.S. had the p38,p39,p40 and the f4hellcat and the Brewster Buffalo.  For purposes of both use and availability the P40 is the only logical choice.  At the time it was as state of the art as fighters got in the U.S.



The Avg was not incorporated into any airforce.  It was disbanded.
Its commander and all of its aircraft and supplies became part of the 14 airforce.



Chenault was retired prior to forming the AVG.  Deny it all you want but the dates on record show that he was retired.
If he was retired how was it that he was awarded the distinguished service medal for his work with the AVG.  You can only be awarded medals in the U.S. military for service as a member of the armed services.  We do not give military medals to civilians.  It might also interest you that ten of the "civilian" pilots of the AVG were also awarded the distinguished flying cross.  Again... the military does not give medals to civilians.

I have no more time for lies and fairy tales from you.
If you feel incompetent to discuss this further that is your choice.

The day you make me feel incompetent is one that neither of us will live to see. 
The question was "If YOU feel incompetent to discuss this further".  I can't make you do anything.

As far as discussing it goes, you deny all of the facts and look for incomplete documentation, incorrect documentation or make it up as you go.  Continuing to dig up facts and figures for you to ignore and lie about is not a conversation.
Your failure to answer even one of my points points in only one direction...an inability to do so.
You accuse me of lieing but you fail to point out or rebut any of my statements.
You say the Chinese paid the AVG...I point out that they did it with U.S. taxpayers money and cited authority.
You state that Chenault & co were civilians ...I point out that the U.S. military does not give military medals to civilians.
You claim that the P40 was a crappy airplane...I point out that it was the state of the art that was available at the time.
You claim the AVG was disbanded...I point out that the "disbanded" AVG turned all of their aircraft and supplies,including their commanding officer, over to the 14th airforce.
So far you have not been able to refute one of my points so you resort to calling me a liar. 

Go pretend to be an intellectual with someone who doesn't know better.
I do not know about being or pretending to be and "intelectual" all I have done is present facts that you have been unable to refute.
 
H.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Enough...this is all bullshit...ALL bullshit. The US was a protectorate against Spanish and Japanese imperialism.
Wrong


Those two oh so benign rulers, who in fact destroyed cultures, changed education (even their language) to indoctrinate their imperialism, stole production and enslaved the population.
The US assists to end Spanish rule,
No the U.S. coopted the Phillippine revolution against Spain.


andafter the so-called Philipino/American war,
Ever wonder why it was called that?

sets up the first Federal Republic of the Philipines appt. the great Philipino revolutionary Aguinaldo as their first pres.
In 1940 who was in charge in the Phillippines, McArthur or Aguinaldo?


We brought in the Red Cross, medical care and resources to help buuld Philipino civil society. Yes, there were atrocities on both sides but even the Philipino population knew their insurgents was of a particularly brutal kind.
Have you any sort of documentation for this or is this just your opinion?

We set up the first civilian govt. gave money for development, schools etc. and almost the entire Philipino population knew that they wanted at the time, US protection.
More opinion?

How would a survey go if we asked those in the Pacific, Hawaii included...who would they rather have there, the Spanish, Japanese or the US. I think we all know how it would go.
If this is true why did it take U.S. Marines to insure it?

Yes, there were some atrocities on both sides but your revision is via the idea that for the US to go in at all...you make the the prejudicial assumption is that it just HAD to be for imperialists needs when in fact it was the Spanish and the Japanese who were the real slavers.

Get a grip on the continuing loose use of terms imperalist colonialism. That in its actual form...forces another society upon yours, govt., military, your courts, your law, your education and all of civil society. The attempt is to wipe out your culture and MAKE you part of the colonialist's culture to aid in further conquest.
Yup...that is pretty much what we did.



The Chinese are busy as we speak right now in Tibet...doing just that. That's either a particularly brutal kind of nationalism or it is imperialist colonialism.
Yup.


The US has does nothing of the sort. We educated, trained and wanted to trade with those. That trade although on a very small scale, aided the countries we protected much more than exploited it. The Philipine archipelago by itself offered us very little except a good Pacific location for a navy base after WWII when we finally got the Japanese out.
We took the Phillippines in 1898 

One more thing...why havn't those 'victims' of US imperialist colonialism in Puerto Rico voted to become a state ? We all know, Life is so bad there, that they have all the benefits of statehood without the burdens. We better not let this get out or soon we will have most of the undeveloped world at our imperialistic colonialist doorsteps...looking to be so exploited.
???????

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Japan was waging a war of conquest against an American ally....China.

\

Please refresh my memory...What treaty did we have with China that made them our ally?

H.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Japan was waging a war of conquest against an American ally....China.

\

Please refresh my memory...What treaty did we have with China that made them our ally?

H.

Absence of a formal treaty means exactly what?
Was there at that time a treaty with England?
At the time America was largely isolationist and did not enter into binding treatys with foreign powers....so absence of a treaty proves nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Nah,I'm comfortable with the word I chose.America offered China both covert and overt aid during their war with Japan....so it seems to me the term fits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

We call people like that "liars" or "whack jobs" in this country. 

I am not surprised that it took one postfor someone to try to connect them to the Bush Whitehouse.  Amazingly enough people, not everything in this world has something to do with Bush.  He's a poor president but he is not in charge of everything in the world.  If you are that obsessed with the man, get psychiatric help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

he couldn't have been involved ,that infamous mission was,unfortunately,successful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And some must resort to semantics...clearly you are one of the them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

Seems Japan wasn't the agressor..but the forum users are   lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBanshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

We call people like that "liars" or "whack jobs" in this country. 

I am not surprised that it took one postfor someone to try to connect them to the Bush Whitehouse.  Amazingly enough people, not everything in this world has something to do with Bush.  He's a poor president but he is not in charge of everything in the world.  If you are that obsessed with the man, get psychiatric help.

I heard that Bush was seen on the grassy knoll