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Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:13:06 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		If according to Genesis we are all descended from two or three people, is it that all of us in this present age are related and therefore  the same people ?

Could it be that if we are all related with the common ancestors that of Adam, Eve( and Lilith), our eventual aim is to once again be  one people regardless of colour, ethnicity or faith ?

Could it be even that the different faiths throughout the world have component parts of truth, that if taken and added together actually form a universal truth, a universal faith, a faith in humanity perhaps ?

Perhaps it is that the truth was scattered as the quest for mankind ?

Who actually benefits from the distrust and hatred of other races, faiths and ethnologies ?


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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:33:02 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		If I remember rightly, we are all related, no more than six times removed.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:35:36 AM   
candystripper


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Status: offline 		Who is Lillith?
 
candystripper 
 
P.S.  I'm not one who's been taught to 'take the bible literally' but as I understand it, science is moving towards a somewhat similar conclusion...that all humankind shares common ancestors.
 
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-72910345.html

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:38:32 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		Who benefits the most from hatred and distrust of other peoples? Weapons manufacturers and the leaders who use xenophobia to stay in power.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:41:57 AM   
JumpingJax


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In my opinion religion is highly overrated. It's just an excuse to divide and to kill your neighbors. But if you do want to look back on the words of Genesis here is my contribution to this post...

From Genesis:

I must have dreamed a thousand dreams, been hunted by a million screams. I can hear the marching feet, they're moving into the street. Now did you read the news today ? They say the danger's gone away. But I can see the fire's still alight burning into the night. There's too many men, too many people making too many problems, and not much love to go around. Can't you see, this is a land of confusion ? This is the world we live in, and these are the hands we're given. Use them and let's start trying to make it a place worth living in.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:49:22 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		I believe that USING religion to prop up your hateful views is done entirely too often. If a person truly loves themselves and follows the Golden Rule (which no pure religion disagrees with, as far as I know), we could meet one another in peace. One of my favorite songs is "Let There Be Peace on Earth (and let it begin with ME..)".

   What I mean by a pure religion is not strictly Christianity or strickly Islam or Judaism, but taking the truth of said viewpoint and not adulterating it for supporting one's non spiritual  agenda. Christianity is the belief system I know, so to use an example from that is "Love one another as I have loved you". No ambiguity here. This doesn't say go out and subjugate other people in my name in order to "convert" them. This is an example of what I mean by pure.

Edited to add the last paragraph. I didn't mean to leave the impression that I was thinking of only one religion as pure.  

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 11/1/2008 8:58:48 AM >

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 8:51:27 AM   
UncleNasty


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Status: offline 		Which creation story in Genesis are you referring to? There is more than one.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:00:32 AM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Who is Lillith?
 
candystripper 
 
P.S.  I'm not one who's been taught to 'take the bible literally' but as I understand it, science is moving towards a somewhat similar conclusion...that all humankind shares common ancestors.
 
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-72910345.html


I'm not sure of the exact specifics, but Lillith is believed by some religions to have been Adam's first wife.  In describing creation the Bible first talks of "man" being created from dust, and that this included both Adam and Lillith, and that later it tells about how Eve was taken from Adam's rib, and so was his second wife.  Like I said, I'm not sure of the particulars.

As far as all mankind sharing common ancestors, it would seem to me that even if man decended from apes there would still have to have been a "first" somewhere along the way.

A few years ago I read that through DNA testing they thought they could trace all mankind back to a single woman in Africa.  However, many Biblical schollars believe that the actual location of the Garden of Eden is burried under water at the upper end of the Persian Gulf between Iran and Iraq, so if the Bible is right then the first woman would not have been in Africa.

Another thought, if the Bible is true, would we not all be descendants of Noah as well?

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:05:22 AM   
candystripper


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Status: offline 		http://www.art.net/~schong/lilithmyth.html
 
I googled Lillith in the Garden of Eden and this is what I managed to find...but it's a folktale, not a portion of the bible.
 
Is this who you meant, Aneirin?
 
candystripper 

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:08:34 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		A few points.

The name "Lilith" does not appear in the bible.

As to common ancestry, the bible is definitely incorrect as to all of humanity being descended either from 2 people 6000 years ago or from 8 closely related people 4000 years ago. However we are all related. for accurate information you need to investigate "Y chromosome Adam" and "Mitochodrial Eve" who are the most recent male and female ancestors. Note that these people lived at different times and in different places.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 11/1/2008 9:11:46 AM >

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:16:27 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Whether Adam and Eve and all that is true or whether evolution is true, (whereby we must all be descended from one ancestor at some stage who mutated in the primordial soup and produced offspring better suited to the environment, multiplied and then had the same thing happen a few million more times as the environment changed to get us to where we are now), we must all be related at some point. I read something somewhere too that if you stood in front of your parents and they stood in front of theirs and so on back several thousand generations - and you had a chimp do the same, at some point the two lines would merge.

Our aim is to reproduce and produce the best offspring we can and so provide for the survival of our genes against a changing environment according to science. In the absence of world travel its unlikely the various types of human would ever reproduce with one another, but its for sure from what I've seen at least that the result of such reproduction is not entirely displeasing, nor indeed unlikely to result in humans whose reproductive viability in terms of attracting a mate would be diminished!

All religions have some truth to them - according to the cultural background from which they are derived. Stripped of their cultural contexts they do all seem to say the same things. Given adequate mixing of cultures through the reproductive mechanism above relating to ethnicities its possible that this might be seen to be the case, but more likely is that religions will be abandoned so bound up are they in their cultural origins.

Fear of the unfamiliar is the driver of prejudice as an initial reaction. Rejection of the stranger is the driver of prejudice as it is more commonly understood. Such prejudice is based on group identity and the human need to belong to a group and to particpate in that group, part of which is expressed as much as in who is excluded as in who is included. But it would be true to say that this natural human behaviour is turned to other purposes by those who seek to acquire, maintain and extend power for themselves as leaders of their group and by the members too, who benefit from the overall acquisition, maintenance and extension of power by the group over other groups - whether that power be expressed in terms of access to and control of natural resources or more direct control over other groups. Whether who is in the group and who is out of the group is expressed by skin colour, faith or whatever is secondary to this mechanism - the same mechanism would find another expression were such obvious differences not available to discern members from non-members.

But overall the action of religion is for us to resist, diminish and eliminate such human behaviours in ourselves and to help others towards the same in its mission which is to take our animal natures and replace them with god natures.

E

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:20:46 AM   
windchymes


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Status: offline 		And I thought this thread was going to be about Phil Collins.

C'mon, ya knew someone was going to say it!

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:21:25 AM   
manxcat


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Status: offline 		Could it be that if we are all related with the common ancestors that of Adam, Eve( and Lilith), our eventual aim is to once again be  one people regardless of colour, ethnicity or faith ?

Certain Native American Nations say they come from the stars, and i believe that some Aboriginals in Australia also say this. 

Could it be even that the different faiths throughout the world have component parts of truth, that if taken and added together actually form a universal truth, a universal faith, a faith in humanity perhaps ?

Likely.

Who actually benefits from the distrust and hatred of other races, faiths and ethnologies ?

Governments, politicians, or going back far enough, anyone interested in holding power and thereby obtaining money and lands. It's the old divide and conquer ethic.  It works very well.

[/quote]

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The television, that insidious beast, that Medusa which freezes a
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that Siren which called and sang and promised so much and gave, after all, so little.
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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 9:35:02 AM   
JumpingJax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

And I thought this thread was going to be about Phil Collins.

C'mon, ya knew someone was going to say it!



Go back and read my post :)

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 10:24:06 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I asked these questions as I am what might be called a spiritual vagrant, a vagrant in that I will investigate any belief that presents itself to me and take what I believe to be truth as I see it. Currently, there is a bit of pagan, a bit of christianity, islam, hindi, taoism , buddhism and others yet to be defined. I seek my truth by crossing boundaries and listening to others. If I disagree, I leave the idea as not being for me personally.

It is with this idea, this vagrancy that I have come to think that we are one people and our eventual goal is to unite and live for the betterment of humanity, not the destruction of it.

I know only too well who and what it is that seeks to divide us, the trick is to recognise the instigator and follow the soul, not the ears via the training of the brain, who said life has to be logical.

Oh, we can make war and destroy, we have become very good at it, but we can also love and love each other. Tell me, being good to people feels better than being bad to them.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 10:29:48 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

http://www.art.net/~schong/lilithmyth.html
 
I googled Lillith in the Garden of Eden and this is what I managed to find...but it's a folktale, not a portion of the bible.
 
Is this who you meant, Aneirin?
 
candystripper 


And the bible isn't a folktale of sorts?
Never underestimate folktales.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 10:48:51 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax


quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

And I thought this thread was going to be about Phil Collins.

C'mon, ya knew someone was going to say it!



Go back and read my post :)


Ha! I just did - that was awesome.

To answer the OP, no one benefits from the distrust and hatred of other races, faiths and ethnologies, no matter where the ideas stem from. In learning some of the outright bigotry the man I'm currently seeing faced - both in his youth and currently - I am disgusted by it.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 1:43:41 PM   
theobserver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

If according to Genesis we are all descended from two or three people, is it that all of us in this present age are related and therefore  the same people ?

Could it be that if we are all related with the common ancestors that of Adam, Eve( and Lilith), our eventual aim is to once again be  one people regardless of colour, ethnicity or faith ?

Could it be even that the different faiths throughout the world have component parts of truth, that if taken and added together actually form a universal truth, a universal faith, a faith in humanity perhaps ?

Perhaps it is that the truth was scattered as the quest for mankind ?

Who actually benefits from the distrust and hatred of other races, faiths and ethnologies ?



The insanely wealthy and power benefit - and as we know power and wealth goes hand in hand.

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 2:02:35 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax


quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

And I thought this thread was going to be about Phil Collins.

C'mon, ya knew someone was going to say it!



Go back and read my post :)


Ah, I missed that the first time!  See, someone did say it!  Sort of....

< Message edited by windchymes -- 11/1/2008 2:05:09 PM >

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RE: Genesis - 11/1/2008 2:08:52 PM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

 not a portion of the bible.
 


quote:

A few points.

The name "Lilith" does not appear in the bible.


Isaiah 34:14

"Goat demons shall greet each other; there too the lilith will repose."


< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/1/2008 2:09:58 PM >

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