RE: Genesis (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


TNstepsout -> RE: Genesis (11/2/2008 8:38:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Lilith was the name of the goddess thought to cause SIDS and stillborns. People didn't worship her, they gave offerings to ward her off. Not sure why she's supposed to be Adam's other wife.

However since Cain clearly moved away and married a woman from somewhere else, obviously we aren't all descended solely from Adam and Eve. You can't read the Bible literally, it's a mix of parables and oral histories of several different traditions, all of which contradict each other.


From Wikepedia

"The idea that Adam had a wife prior to Eve may have developed from an interpretation of the Book of Genesis and its dual creation accounts; while Genesis 2:22 describes God's creation of Eve from Adam's rib, an earlier passage, 1:27, already indicates that a woman had been made: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The text places Lilith's creation after God's words in Genesis 2:18 that "it is not good for man to be alone". He forms Lilith out of the clay from which he made Adam, but the two bicker. Lilith claims that since she and Adam were created in the same way, they were equal, and she refuses to submit to him:
After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone.' He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air.

Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, to bring her back.

Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, what is made is good. If not, she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.’

'Leave me!' she said. 'I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.’

When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels' names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."




RealSub58 -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 12:15:49 AM)

  The problem I have in just whipping put a portion of Scripture and just using it is:
contextualization and version are NEVER given. This makes for a huge hermeneutical debate which doesn't need to start.




RealSub58 -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 12:24:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I don't know that I believe all of the DaVinci code concepts, but I definately believe there is some truth to the idea that ancient knowledge was disguised and hidden to protect it from the church. I don't think that's a big stretch of the imagination.  There were probably men of intelligence who felt stifled by the narrow concepts of the church and sought knowledge, but had to do so secretly. I imagine they hid/disguised some of their information in ways that other "members" would detect, but the average person would not.


Ya I watched The DaVinci Code again tonight.
What really happened to that ancient knowledge was disguised and hidden to protect it from the church?
Has it been forgotten that in WWII, the Germans amassed large amounts of "Christian" artifacts as well as plundered the weathy homes of all things valuable.....
And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway? 




TNstepsout -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 4:54:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I don't know that I believe all of the DaVinci code concepts, but I definately believe there is some truth to the idea that ancient knowledge was disguised and hidden to protect it from the church. I don't think that's a big stretch of the imagination.  There were probably men of intelligence who felt stifled by the narrow concepts of the church and sought knowledge, but had to do so secretly. I imagine they hid/disguised some of their information in ways that other "members" would detect, but the average person would not.



Ya I watched The DaVinci Code again tonight.
What really happened to that ancient knowledge was disguised and hidden to protect it from the church?
Has it been forgotten that in WWII, the Germans amassed large amounts of "Christian" artifacts as well as plundered the weathy homes of all things valuable.....
And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway? 


And why did we invade Iraq?




kittinSol -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 5:19:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58
And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway?


Why don't you tell us?




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 5:50:02 AM)

quote:

And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway? 


Because he was fucking loony tunes.  That tends to happen when you grow up in an abusive home where your mom calls your dad, "Uncle" because.....he's her uncle.  If only Jerry Springer had been around in 1910, history might have been different. 




JustDarkness -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 6:01:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58
And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway?


Why don't you tell us?


don't please..lol
she wil hunt you
(and there is already an other thread on the issue)




kittinSol -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 6:06:45 AM)

I find that this question ("Why did Hitler kill all the Jews?") usually has nefarious motives behind it. This is why I am asking for some clarification :-).




JustDarkness -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 6:47:43 AM)

that is true also
it must have a reason when they mention it




RealSub58 -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 9:21:52 AM)

ne·far·i·ous
play_w2("N0049600")


 (n[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]-fâr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]s)
adj.
Infamous by way of being extremely wicked 
I had no idea what the word meant, I had to look it up.I generally never have nefarious reasons to think, say or do anything.


And why did we invade Iraq?

< Message edited by TNstepsout -- 11/3/2008 5:31:27 AM >

Is this a nefarious question? or a retort?




kittinSol -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 9:22:42 AM)

But you're still not answering my question.




Aneirin -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 11:00:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway? 


Because he was fucking loony tunes.  That tends to happen when you grow up in an abusive home where your mom calls your dad, "Uncle" because.....he's her uncle.  If only Jerry Springer had been around in 1910, history might have been different. 


Was it not because when he tried to rebuild Germany after WW 1, the Jewish were not that keen on helping, in that they had the wealth, but would not help out ? Or was it some misguided religious reason. Whatever it was, it is interesting to note Europe did nothing until Germany crossed the line drawn, which was Poland.




RCdc -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 11:22:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

But you're still not answering my question.


Breath holding?  Not so much.[;)]
 
the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 11:25:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

And why did Hitler go after the Jews anyway? 


Because he was fucking loony tunes.  That tends to happen when you grow up in an abusive home where your mom calls your dad, "Uncle" because.....he's her uncle.  If only Jerry Springer had been around in 1910, history might have been different. 


Was it not because when he tried to rebuild Germany after WW 1, the Jewish were not that keen on helping, in that they had the wealth, but would not help out ? Or was it some misguided religious reason. Whatever it was, it is interesting to note Europe did nothing until Germany crossed the line drawn, which was Poland.



Meh.  And it happens over and over.  Rwanda.  Congo.  No one does fuck all, but complain and spread conspiracy theories about world order crap that if they really cared about they would be doing something now, not waiting until the whatwhen.
 
the.dark.




TNstepsout -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 4:14:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

ne·far·i·ous
play_w2("N0049600")


 (n[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]-fâr[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif[/image]-[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/image]s)
adj.
Infamous by way of being extremely wicked 
I had no idea what the word meant, I had to look it up.I generally never have nefarious reasons to think, say or do anything.


And why did we invade Iraq?

< Message edited by TNstepsout -- 11/3/2008 5:31:27 AM >

Is this a nefarious question? or a retort?



It's not either. It's a good question. I think we invaded at least in part because some people still expect to find some important lost knowledge there. They sure did spend a lot of time poking around in remote places looking for "weapons of mass destruction". 




DavanKael -> RE: Genesis (11/3/2008 10:44:35 PM)

That soooo is the best Genesis song ever, JumpinJax!  'Course, I have to say that I like the Disturbed version better. 
Anyway, Aneirin, there is a theory that globalization is bringing people more to a homogenous mix and that within somehting like 250 years blondes with blue eyes will be extreme rarities. 
Your thoughts also reminded me of the Tower of Babel; if I am recalling correctly, God made people speak different languages and put their cooperation asunder as the tower was getting too close to Heaven. 
It's nearly 2am and I'm philosophizing.  That's about the extent of my thoughts on those things at this moment. 
  Davan




Shekicromaster -> RE: Genesis (11/4/2008 12:23:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
If you really want to know more on the subject you should read Holy Blood, Holy Grail for starters and it's follow-up Bloodline of the Holy Grail.


Didn’t read the book but I’ve seen some lectures of one of the authors and he was not convincing at all. The same attitude with which people were at a time seeing complicated technological structures in the shadows of the moon, than when the moon become too accessible on the mars.. or in the pre-global era mystifying far away civilization, fantasizing about some hidden cities in the Himalayas and so on.. it is the simple human desire for mystery.. and when you approach something with a strong believe and desire to find something you probably will… This guy for example was between other things drawing some “occult” symbols on the maps connecting historical ruins connecting this to some mysterious secrets of the past…  If you give me the map of where I live Ill be able to construct similar theories without a problem (actually some have already done it) in places with a long history (prehistorically ruins, roman buildings and temples, templar and “heretic” ones, Greek, pagan, catholic, you name it…) it is enough to have a little imagination to find connections, draw symbols connecting different sites and construct fantastic theories. Of course such an approach that gives more room to fantasy than a serious historian would allow himself can from time to time even guess something, but most of the time it really is just fantasy or a mixture of facts and imagination.  I’m not too impressed by all that.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Genesis (11/4/2008 12:28:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

That soooo is the best Genesis song ever, JumpinJax!  'Course, I have to say that I like the Disturbed version better. 
Anyway, Aneirin, there is a theory that globalization is bringing people more to a homogenous mix and that within somehting like 250 years blondes with blue eyes will be extreme rarities. 
Your thoughts also reminded me of the Tower of Babel; if I am recalling correctly, God made people speak different languages and put their cooperation asunder as the tower was getting too close to Heaven. 
It's nearly 2am and I'm philosophizing.  That's about the extent of my thoughts on those things at this moment. 
  Davan

!
As long as there is hair dye blondes wont be so rare! [:D]




Aneirin -> RE: Genesis (11/4/2008 1:48:48 AM)

The aryan idea is a complete load of hogwash anyway, the idea that there is one race that is superior, that idea in history was pushed by a clever mad man with some serious personal issues. To suit this mad man's purpose he chose to make another different race of people, honoury aryans, just because of their force of arms and industrial might. To prove the guy was crackers, if there is one race that is supposed to be superior, why make another very different race honoury, as if part of the club. I do believe the future of mankind is the blending of the races and with that an end to the stupidity of the past. Religion, maybe with the blending, it will become less of an influence until the point the religion becomes that of humanity, we worship ourselves as the human race we are. If god was supposed to make us in his own image, is it also possible there is part of god in all of us and we should in reality be looking within instead of looking outside, be the best that we can be and we will find our spirit.

Perhaps it is interesting to note, religions, beliefs of the past have been such as dependant on a locale of the people that believe, with globalisation, world travel and emigration, it is interesting that with the new generations being born in new countries, the belief of the parents takes a back step with the freedom the new generation has.




TNstepsout -> RE: Genesis (11/4/2008 4:58:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shekicromaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
If you really want to know more on the subject you should read Holy Blood, Holy Grail for starters and it's follow-up Bloodline of the Holy Grail.


Didn’t read the book but I’ve seen some lectures of one of the authors and he was not convincing at all. The same attitude with which people were at a time seeing complicated technological structures in the shadows of the moon, than when the moon become too accessible on the mars.. or in the pre-global era mystifying far away civilization, fantasizing about some hidden cities in the Himalayas and so on.. it is the simple human desire for mystery.. and when you approach something with a strong believe and desire to find something you probably will… This guy for example was between other things drawing some “occult” symbols on the maps connecting historical ruins connecting this to some mysterious secrets of the past…  If you give me the map of where I live Ill be able to construct similar theories without a problem (actually some have already done it) in places with a long history (prehistorically ruins, roman buildings and temples, templar and “heretic” ones, Greek, pagan, catholic, you name it…) it is enough to have a little imagination to find connections, draw symbols connecting different sites and construct fantastic theories. Of course such an approach that gives more room to fantasy than a serious historian would allow himself can from time to time even guess something, but most of the time it really is just fantasy or a mixture of facts and imagination.  I’m not too impressed by all that.



I don't know what you saw so I can't comment on it, but the geometric/geographic connections are only one small portion of the information/evidence presented in these books. I don't know why it is too far fetched to think that early sites would have geometric consistency because early sites all have a strong knowledge and appreciation for geometry in them. The earliest priests (magicians of their time) believed in a connection between time, distance and space and thought it was important to express this in their temples and important structures. To them there was a sacred order in math and geometry.  From there it is not far fetched to think that these early "priests" would expand that connection by choosing locations that complete the same geometric patterns or mathmatical relationships.

Much of this knowledge was lost during the Dark Ages and I believe there was concerted effort to retrieve it to restore civilization and further the discoverer's wealth, prestige and power.




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.078125