Is there a Psychologist in the house? (Full Version)

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DeepWaters -> Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 7:42:35 PM)

Hoping to pick a few brains...Im reading an analysis of social systems (yeah I know only dorks read textbooks for pleasure ;) )

anyways I ran across this passage that I keep mulling over in the deviation from cultural patterns chapter..that Im hoping someone can give me some Psychologist examples as it relates to the D/s world.

"mechanisms of defense as these are primarily psychological in nature, though they are also relevant sociologically for several reasons. In the first place an understanding of the phenomenon of repression give a clue to how the subsequent deviance will be expressed. If a person represses and institutionilized standard so he can violate it, he will be a compulsive innovator or ritualist, depending on whether goals or means are repressed. If both goals and means are repressed, deviance will be expressed as compulsive retreatism. The compulsive nature of the deviance emerges as a consequence of reaction formation. Similarily if he represses a disapproved means or goal so that he can conform, he will express his deviance compulsively in overcomfortity. I other words the direction of deviance is related to which side of an ambivalence a person in conflict represses."

(the last part I think I can see as like a pedophile priest who publicly denounces child porn maybe even crusades against it but has his own collection)...but the first part...how does that get expressed or repressed..when D/s is the institutionalized standard for instance???

thanks any insights are always welcome.
DW




Sunshine119 -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 7:50:55 PM)

As a director of a social service agency for over 20 years, and NOT a social worker myself, I can say, without hesitation that the craziest people I have ever met are psychiatrists, followed by psychologists and then all the social workers of the world. Many have gotten into the field because they wanted to fix themselves or someone in their families.

Sounds like this one was written by one of those listed above.



LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 8:14:39 PM)

Do you have the complete first sentence of the passage?



DeepWaters -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 8:19:57 PM)

"Although such mechanisms of defense as these are primarily psychological.... the preceeding paragraphs talk about reaction formation, rationalization and projection as defense mechanism for dealing with unresolvable frustrations due to a non desired satus set....

Id go deeper into this I think ..but Im getting a woody reading chapter 6 :Social Control LMAO j/k

cheers
DW



shygirldesires -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 8:44:53 PM)

I am not sure what you really want...but I found these sites roaming around on my own search the other day....do they work?

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/main.shtml

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/papd.htm

When I was in Junior HS, in the dark ages(?), one of my friends read Dictionaries and Thersaruses (spelling) books for dorky pleasure reading [:D][:D]



Crazytwice -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 8:54:28 PM)

Hi Deep Waters,

I'm not a psychologist but I have a little medical background.
I'm not neccesarily sure that D/s can apply to this, as it speaks of reaction formation
( a coping mechanism) mainfesting itself in extremes, such as compulsive behavior vs. repressive behavior. For example, a pedophile will either seek to act out his behaviors compulsively, in such a way that he can't control, or he will totally repress his needs and deny that they even exist. It's either/or. I guess someone who feels attuned to D/s could do this, either by completely denying that part of themselves or acting on it in an extreme and compulsive manner.

That's my take on it.



veronicaofML -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 9:30:24 PM)

say it all in american english..so i can understand...and maybe i can come up with something..sounds like all greek to me.
i'm no college boy and there are too many big words for me start looking up...

it'll lose the translation anyway..

good luck




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/15/2005 9:40:15 PM)

quote:

As a director of a social service agency for over 20 years, and NOT a social worker myself, I can say, without hesitation that the craziest people I have ever met are psychiatrists, followed by psychologists and then all the social workers of the world. Many have gotten into the field because they wanted to fix themselves or someone in their families.
My psych professor was institutionalized mid-way through the semester. I don't want to denigrate any profession (since there is plenty of negativity associated with mine), but I will say that the craziest, most difficult to connect with, most non-sensical person I've ever dated was a counselor... I relate to one social services counselor in my family well, only because we love and respect each other enough to be honest, and I frequently tell him he's full of shit. [8D]

Having said that, I am fascinated by, and love psychology/learning and trying to understand people.. M



lovingmaster45 -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 3:54:31 AM)

quote:

As a director of a social service agency for over 20 years, and NOT a social worker myself, I can say, without hesitation that the craziest people I have ever met are psychiatrists, followed by psychologists and then all the social workers of the world. Many have gotten into the field because they wanted to fix themselves or someone in their families.

Sounds like this one was written by one of those listed above.


AMEN Sunshine.

I spent 26 years as a sociology professor debunking psychobabble; but it is like religion, people have "faith" in it.

There is NO scientific evidence of the efficacy of ANY psychological "therapy" EVER being as effective or more effective than simply leaving the person be.




Padriag -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 4:35:51 AM)

First you'd have to present a plausible case for D/s being the institutionalized standard... in most cases it isn't, and is in fact the deviant expression of repressed goals. That is, take for example a submissive woman who embraces a D/s style relationship in reaction to the pressures she feels from feminism. Feminism often pushes women towards styles of living and behavior not all women desire or are comfortable with. Yet that has become the institutionalized standard for the majority of society. Submission then is an expression of a goal at variance with that standard. What exact form that submission may take will depend on the personality of the individual, environmental factors, and the individuals perception of their own behavior (i.e. if they feel being submissive is very wrong, then that may express as a desire to be degraded... by being degraded they attempting to bring others view of them in line with their self image). You see something similar in men who in their careers appear very dominant, but seek to be submissive in a relationship. Often in those cases if you examine the person carefully you'll find someone who felt they had to do so in their career in order to win approval, acceptance, etc. Thus in actuallity that CEO who runs the company might actually be exhibiting submissive behavior because their motive for having achieved so much was to please someone else (a parent, a peer group, etc.). I've met many submissives who were also over achievers, their motive for doing so invariably was to please someone else.

Finding an example of D/s as being the institutionalized standard is much harder, but theoretically suppose you has someone raised in a family where D/s relationships were considered the norm. If that person did not identify with that style of relationship, if their goals were at variance, they would likely exhibit some form of deviant behavior, which in this case might be being overly vanilla, anti-kink, etc.

Does that answer your question? BTW, what was this text from?



DeepWaters -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 5:03:43 AM)

thanks for the reply's everyone...Im a hard scientist by training so psych and soc are just something I merely dabble in, in my attempt to understand people.

and to Padriag a special thanks...after sleeping on it I think I came to some of the same conclusions that you presented. You're right D/s really cant be the institutionalized standard...what we have now...eh some bastardization of bretty crocker and bra burning...maybe thats where I see not only an increased interest of D/s but even with vanilla dating many of the girls seem to be desiring the kept life a la 1950's housewife.

thanks
DW



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 5:55:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
I relate to one social services counselor in my family well, only because we love and respect each other enough to be honest, and I frequently tell him he's full of shit. [8D]

Having said that, I am fascinated by, and love psychology/learning and trying to understand people.. M

LOL my minor was psych and it was made clear to me VERY early that at least 2/3 of the people there were just trying to self-medicate.

Also, IMO, psychology has never taught us anything that we didn't already really know through common sense, although perhaps has restated and reclarified a few points.

Did you (general) know that psychology used to be a subset of philosophy before it broke out on its own? They have hated eachother since. William James is my hero.

That being said, finding a good therapist is a gold mine that should be utilized. Most people have no clue or tools on how to handle their serious life issues (including doms).



thetammyjo -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 8:01:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

quote:

As a director of a social service agency for over 20 years, and NOT a social worker myself, I can say, without hesitation that the craziest people I have ever met are psychiatrists, followed by psychologists and then all the social workers of the world. Many have gotten into the field because they wanted to fix themselves or someone in their families.

Sounds like this one was written by one of those listed above.


AMEN Sunshine.

I spent 26 years as a sociology professor debunking psychobabble; but it is like religion, people have "faith" in it.

There is NO scientific evidence of the efficacy of ANY psychological "therapy" EVER being as effective or more effective than simply leaving the person be.




No scientific evidence perhaps but I know that I would be a much sadder and a much angerer perso if I didn't have several good therapists in the past 12 years. I was careful in who I chose and I went as needed and refused to use anyone who thought meds were any sort of answer.

Before I started getting objective help I harmed myself emotionally and physically -- I couldn't have intercourse because of the rapes I survived as a child. In short I could have never become the writer, teacher, and activist I am today if I had not gotten some help.

I had to take the first step, I had to admit I needed help yet be strong enough to be selective about whose help I'd accept. Not everyone is that strong in the beginning and there were certainly times I didn't feel strong at all.

My therapists never condemned my kink, never told me what the problems were, and never told me how to feel or react. A good therapist listen, validates, leads you to discover what is right for you.

It may seem like a loved one could do that but frankly I think our loved ones are far too invested to be truly objective and we don't really hear them as we do outsiders. Tom and Fox could listen to me and say the exact same words as a therapist but they love me or want sex with me or a million other things. I'm just a client to a therapist, she has others who could use her services, she doesn't need to lie to me -- that's how my brain often perceived things.

As for therapists being crazy, you try listening to people's problems, histories, and nightmarish lives (past and present) 5 to 6 times a day, 5 to 6 days a week, and see if you are completely unaffected. A good therapist also sees a therapist to talk through the emotions that the empathy she needs to do a good job with her clients raises in her.

Also a lot of survivors want to help others and have a lot of empathy -- it makes good victim in the minds of abusers but it actually helps one to survive. I'm not surprised that many folks go into professions to help others. I could say that even my being an activist, teacher and writer is my way to help others.

Plus survivors seem to attract other survivors at a very high rate in my experience.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves is dismissing professional help; another is those who think that any old professional help will do and are unactive in their own growth, discovery and recovery.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 8:05:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Sorry, one of my pet peeves is dismissing professional help; another is those who think that any old professional help will do and are unactive in their own growth, discovery and recovery.

Yeah what gets me so often is hearing about people playing the "Fool the Therapist" game where they either lie or are not fully open with their therapist, and then go on about how the therapist obviously sucks to not know they are being lied to and then just calling off the whole deal.

IMO those are people who don't really want help or can't really admit what's going on yet.



thetammyjo -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 8:11:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Sorry, one of my pet peeves is dismissing professional help; another is those who think that any old professional help will do and are unactive in their own growth, discovery and recovery.

Yeah what gets me so often is hearing about people playing the "Fool the Therapist" game where they either lie or are not fully open with their therapist, and then go on about how the therapist obviously sucks to not know they are being lied to and then just calling off the whole deal.

IMO those are people who don't really want help or can't really admit what's going on yet.


Must be nice to have so much money to toss around for such things, huh?




IronBear -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 10:30:15 AM)

Having spent quite some time being involved with profiling, I can to the conclusion that many of the profilers I worked with were just as sick or worse that the people they were profiling. But then I was never involved with your average mass murderer or common and garden criminal, my area was to a large degree, terrorists.. This begs the question, does a profiler get sick because of what he/she has to face and associate with? or are they sick to start with and just gravitate to a level where they are comfortable?



thetammyjo -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 11:24:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Having spent quite some time being involved with profiling, I can to the conclusion that many of the profilers I worked with were just as sick or worse that the people they were profiling. But then I was never involved with your average mass murderer or common and garden criminal, my area was to a large degree, terrorists.. This begs the question, does a profiler get sick because of what he/she has to face and associate with? or are they sick to start with and just gravitate to a level where they are comfortable?


Maybe its a matter of choice?

I'd say that someone who can think like a crinimal or a murderer etc is probably better at catching them then let's say... me!

But thinking the same is not being the same, not doing the same thing.

Does anyone watch "Criminal Minds" on CBS in America? There was an episode a few weeks back where they capture a miscenary who also likes to murder. When the lead investigator talks to him he tells him that there are two types of people who have same backgrounds to the criminals -- those that become mass murders and then he doesn't name the other group. When the criminal asks for the second, the investigator replies: "Some of us stop those murders" and you are left with the impression that this investigator's life was much like the murders. Not indentical, not even siblings have identical experiences growing up.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 11:34:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
When the criminal asks for the second, the investigator replies: "Some of us stop those murders" and you are left with the impression that this investigator's life was much like the murders. Not indentical, not even siblings have identical experiences growing up.

That's part of why I don't worry so much about the "dangerous dorks"

Almost all of them are really easy to pick out within 20 paces.

The rest of them you won't see coming at all.

There are dangerous people out there. Sick depraved ones. And it's mostly just a matter of degree. The really dangerous ones are the ones who know how not to be dangerous.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 2:59:30 PM)

quote:

LOL my minor was psych and it was made clear to me VERY early that at least 2/3 of the people there were just trying to self-medicate.

Also, IMO, psychology has never taught us anything that we didn't already really know through common sense, although perhaps has restated and reclarified a few points.
I agree, but a lot of times people missed common sense lessons from parents and society, so we need professionals to pass it on I suppose.
I'm not surprised that psych was a subset of philosophy, both drive me nuts sometimes with the argumentativeness/babble, lol... I mean that in the nicest way possible. [8D] M



candystripper -> RE: Is there a Psychologist in the house? (12/16/2005 3:38:59 PM)

quote:

I spent 26 years as a sociology professor debunking psychobabble; but it is like religion, people have "faith" in it.

LovingMaster


That's pretty funny. About 26 years ago, i graduated with a major in Sociology. The discipline seems to me as fraught with babble as any other.

candystripper



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