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Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 4:18:34 AM   
candystripper


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What happened in California?  Anyone know yetP

quote:

Early poll results Tuesday night showed California voters leaning toward overturning same-sex marriage in the state in a decision that could impact how the issue plays out elsewhere in the nation.

Approval of Proposition 8 would be a stunning upset in a $70-million campaign that just weeks ago looked to be running in favor of preserving gay marriage rights.

Wall Street Journal, Nov. 5,.2008


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122586056759900673.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

candystripper 


< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/5/2008 4:20:00 AM >
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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 4:21:33 AM   
JustDarkness


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On the radio overhere they just said..same sex marriage didn't pass....

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 4:54:57 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

90.8% ( 23,103 of 25,423 ) precincts partially
or fully reporting as of Nov. 5, 2008, at 4:40 a.m.
Visit our County Reporting Status page to determine if a county has submitted a final report or returns.


51.9% -- yes
48.1% --  no

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm
 
So, its done I guess.  How sad.
 
candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/5/2008 4:57:34 AM >

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 5:19:02 AM   
StrtbkNamdDesire


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Wow. I'm so disappointed right now... I'm sure I'll be plain angry tomorrow. This makes Obama a very bittersweet victory.

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 5:22:02 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


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I agree.  Same result in Florida.  Very disappointing..

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 6:30:55 AM   
Irishknight


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I think there were a lot of disappointments last night.  Arkansas voters made it illegal for nonmarried people to aopt or be foster parents.

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 6:40:14 AM   
JumpingJax


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So wait - I didn't know about this bill but I assume same sex marriage was already legal there? Hadn't same sex marriages already taken place in California? If so what happens to their marriage?

Also is it legal any where? Didn't Mass make it legal a few years back. If a couple were to get married there - doesn't all other states have to recognize it?


My take on this: Goverment should get the hell out of deciding what constitutes a marriage. Marriage is for the churches to decide. Goverments should replace the concept of Marriage with Domestic Corporations which would allow any type of union, including same sex or a poly situation to join together.


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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:10:12 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax


So wait - I didn't know about this bill but I assume same sex marriage was already legal there? Hadn't same sex marriages already taken place in California? If so what happens to their marriage?

Also is it legal any where? Didn't Mass make it legal a few years back. If a couple were to get married there - doesn't all other states have to recognize it?


My take on this: Goverment should get the hell out of deciding what constitutes a marriage. Marriage is for the churches to decide. Goverments should replace the concept of Marriage with Domestic Corporations which would allow any type of union, including same sex or a poly situation to join together.



agreed.

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:11:16 AM   
CalifChick


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Same sex marriage was already legal in California, this was to overturn that.  The marriages will be as if they never happened.  California does have "domestic partner" status, and you register with the state for it. 

Some states recognize same-sex marriages from other states; some do not.  They are not required to do so.


Cali


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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:13:01 AM   
amelliagrace


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"Marriage" is a religious institution.  Thus, government should keep its nose out of it.  The last thing I want is for the current governement - at any time - to tell me who I can and can't marry.
 
"Civil Union" is a different matter.  Fine by me if there are set criteria for having a union that is accepted in the eyes of the state.
 
Just my unpoplular opinion, but I'd like to see the two completely seperate in this country.  Two, or even nine people want to set up a legally recognized household, with stated intent of longevity, and while accepting all the responsibilities that go with its upkeep and consequences of its dissolution?  Sounds fine to me.  The more solid, stable, household units this society has, the better.
 
Want to be married in the eyes of God, in accordance with the criteria established by the religion/sect/denomination that you associate yourself with?  Sounds great.  Each group should be able to decide for themselves who they will and won't sanctify in marital union.
 
For the life of me I don't see how John and George, Mary and Mitzie, or Jerry, Pauline, and Harold establishing a family unit is a threat to MY relationship.  Phrases like "marriage under attack", "undermining the sanctity of marriage", "weakening the fabric of society" tend to set my teeth on edge.  The more committed, solid, stable family units my nation has, the better, IMO.  This isn't rocket science.  IMO, it is pretty simple and common sense.  Perhaps that is why the vast majority of people remain utterly clueless on this subject.
 
Yes, I AM an opinionated bitch.
 
Grace

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RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:26:56 AM   
DedicatedDom40


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Religion can, and already does, reject marriage in circumstances where there is a failure of following its strict code of beliefs. When rejection from the church angle happens, the marriage-to-be simply acknolwdges that their particular religion does not accept them, and then they move down the street to the local, government-paid JP to get married.  This issue was about whether the local government JP had to recognize same sex marriage or not, regardless of where that JP stands on the issue personally. The defeat imples the JP does not have to recognize and marry same sex couples.

Marriage is an element of the church in terms of faith, but it also is an element of government in terms of the law, social benefits, taxes, power of attorney, inheritance, etc.  You simply cannot say marriage is only an instrument for the church, because that is hardly the case.

This ban, and its "giving a legal out" to the JP with a conscience, is little different from the issue of a legislature coming to the rescue of the pharmacist who refuses to dispense birth control on grounds of it being a moral objection.

Government did not decide what consisitutes a marriage. A righteous group fearing the economic ramifications of legal acknowledgement did, and used the local government JP as their proxy. 



< Message edited by DedicatedDom40 -- 11/5/2008 7:35:37 AM >

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:46:18 AM   
MistresseLotus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

For the life of me I don't see how John and George, Mary and Mitzie, or Jerry, Pauline, and Harold establishing a family unit is a threat to MY relationship.  Phrases like "marriage under attack", "undermining the sanctity of marriage", "weakening the fabric of society" tend to set my teeth on edge.  The more committed, solid, stable family units my nation has, the better, IMO.  This isn't rocket science.  IMO, it is pretty simple and common sense.  Perhaps that is why the vast majority of people remain utterly clueless on this subject.
 
Yes, I AM an opinionated bitch.
 
Grace
  Or perhaps they just see the revolving door that has been associated with relationships of the gay and poly situations and figure.. why do they even want to bother with making it "official" ?
 
Only the lawyers will profit.. and if they want all the legalities, then the alimony. child support, breach of promise suits, and division of half your property upon dissolution of said marriage which  comes along with it.  It's so much more than just  a pretty ceremony.

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 7:57:35 AM   
JumpingJax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus
Or perhaps they just see the revolving door that has been associated with relationships of the gay and poly situations and figure.. why do they even want to bother with making it "official" ?



It is my believe that if they made some non-traditional unions legal then their wouldn't be so much of a revolving door and it would add more stability to these families.

And with a divorce rate in this country of around 50% - I would say everyone is using that revolving door.

< Message edited by JumpingJax -- 11/5/2008 7:58:36 AM >

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:12:05 AM   
TaintedEyes


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There is still some supposed 2 million write in ballots to be cast, but the verdict as of now is yes on 8, to ban gay marriage.


I seriously hope the faces of these poor families being forcefully torn apart HAUNT these hate mongers who exploited children in their fight against something they disagree with.

This decision to bring it to vote again was terrible. It had already been decided by the supreme court.


I even had someone tell me that separation of church and state is a fabrication and not mentioned in any constitution. *sigh*

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:17:52 AM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TaintedEyes

I seriously hope the faces of these poor families being forcefully torn apart


Not that I agree with prop 8 by any means, but how on earth is any family going to be "forcefully torn apart"???? 

Cali


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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:21:31 AM   
amelliagrace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

For the life of me I don't see how John and George, Mary and Mitzie, or Jerry, Pauline, and Harold establishing a family unit is a threat to MY relationship.  Phrases like "marriage under attack", "undermining the sanctity of marriage", "weakening the fabric of society" tend to set my teeth on edge.  The more committed, solid, stable family units my nation has, the better, IMO.  This isn't rocket science.  IMO, it is pretty simple and common sense.  Perhaps that is why the vast majority of people remain utterly clueless on this subject.
 
Yes, I AM an opinionated bitch.
 
Grace
  Or perhaps they just see the revolving door that has been associated with relationships of the gay and poly situations and figure.. why do they even want to bother with making it "official" ?
 
Only the lawyers will profit.. and if they want all the legalities, then the alimony. child support, breach of promise suits, and division of half your property upon dissolution of said marriage which  comes along with it.  It's so much more than just  a pretty ceremony.


Which is why I said in my previous post:

"Just my unpoplular opinion, but I'd like to see the two completely seperate in this country.  Two, or even nine people want to set up a legally recognized household, with stated intent of longevity, and while accepting all the responsibilities that go with its upkeep and consequences of its dissolution?  Sounds fine to me.  The more solid, stable, household units this society has, the better. "
 
Based on the homosexual people I've known well, and talked with at length, I've come to the conclusion that one major reason for the "revolving door" relationships is, in fact, the lack of societal support for those relationships.  "Societal support" being not just a certified stamp of "legal", but recognizing that the rights, privileges, and responcibilities which apply to hetero relationships should also apply to homosexual or poly relationships. 
 
Whith hetero marriages becoming increasingly short lived, our society needs all the good relationships it can get - and that includes same sex ones.  I've known several families with same sex partners.  Their communities would, IMO, have been far better off had they not made it so damned difficult for those individuals to coach little league, and so many other things.  One the one hand the griping about not enough "parental envolvement" in schools, and on the other"but we don't want YOUR help".  That  makes a lot of sense - NOT.
 
Human nature and the headaches of alimony (not to mention the aggravasions of having more than one spouse) and custody would limit the number of poly relationships going forward to "legal partnership" status.  They aren't ever likely to be common in our society.  I simply fail to see a logical and productive reason to discourage the developement of quality relationships, regardless of configuration.
 
Grace
 


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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:23:02 AM   
amelliagrace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus
Or perhaps they just see the revolving door that has been associated with relationships of the gay and poly situations and figure.. why do they even want to bother with making it "official" ?



It is my believe that if they made some non-traditional unions legal then their wouldn't be so much of a revolving door and it would add more stability to these families.

And with a divorce rate in this country of around 50% - I would say everyone is using that revolving door.


I share that viewpoint.  Well said.
 
Grace

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:29:17 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


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free country? pfft...

taking away what was fought so hard to acquire...just because a few homophobics hate it.

ridiculous.

it would be interesting to find out which relationships last longer a married gay couple or a married hetero. 



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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 8:30:42 AM   
amelliagrace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

free country? pfft...

taking away what was fought so hard to acquire...just because a few homophobics hate it.

ridiculous.

it would be interesting to find out which relationships last longer a married gay couple or a married hetero. 




I'd be downright shocked if there is a hill of beans worth of difference.
 
Grace

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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 9:13:33 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TaintedEyes
I even had someone tell me that separation of church and state is a fabrication and not mentioned in any constitution. *sigh*

Technically speaking, that is a true statement.  The constitution merely states that the government will have no official religion or state religion. 
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; .....

Since lawsfavoring one religion's view of marriage seem to be alright in this country, we have obviously ignored that part of the Bill of Rights.

The term seperation of church and state originally came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, I believe.

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