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RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 10:02:28 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		The window for same sex marriages in CA was opened for the short term as a result of an activist judiciary; yesterday's vote was a result of the will of the people. Even today - majority rule determines law.

However, lets look at a few things that should be taken into consideration.

First - Remember, CA is a very liberal State. It allows its citizens to smoke marijuana with a Doctor's prescription that can be obtained, as the law states in paraphrase;"ANY 'condition' that the patient/doctor deem marijuana beneficial. Going to the polls stoned is a local tradition in some place. In this instance the Proposal was written in such a way that voting 'YES' meant that you were against same sex marriage. This morning it was amusing to see some people interviewed who obviously thought that they voted for something they were against. However, that may have occurred and been offset by similar confusion on the other side.

Then there is the Obama factor. New and/or 1st time voters overwhelming supported President Elect Obama. There is also the concentration of race based voting as represented by the national percentage of 96% of the black voters supported Obama, I would think a similar result would be reflected in CA. In CA it is being reported on the radio that 1.5 Million of President Elect Obama voters in CA voter YES on Prop 8 in CA. Currently the plurality for the measure passing is around 300,000.

With more lawsuits to follow. Stay tuned...

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 10:18:02 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

For the life of me I don't see how John and George, Mary and Mitzie, or Jerry, Pauline, and Harold establishing a family unit is a threat to MY relationship.  Phrases like "marriage under attack", "undermining the sanctity of marriage", "weakening the fabric of society" tend to set my teeth on edge.  The more committed, solid, stable family units my nation has, the better, IMO.  This isn't rocket science.  IMO, it is pretty simple and common sense.  Perhaps that is why the vast majority of people remain utterly clueless on this subject.
 
Yes, I AM an opinionated bitch.
 
Grace
  Or perhaps they just see the revolving door that has been associated with relationships of the gay and poly situations and figure.. why do they even want to bother with making it "official" ?
 
Only the lawyers will profit.. and if they want all the legalities, then the alimony. child support, breach of promise suits, and division of half your property upon dissolution of said marriage which  comes along with it.  It's so much more than just  a pretty ceremony.


I noticed you didn't mention all the straight relationships and marriages that are nothing more than revolving doors....why was that? I can think of several off the top of my head that should have gotten rental agreements instead, because that's what it amounted to.

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(in reply to MistresseLotus)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 10:21:50 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I hope Pa doesnt do this.   The committee planned to then it put on hold.  It just seems mean.   WHo is the government to ban contracts?  and if that is a matter of course- then why are esoteric dirivative contracts not voided- which are doing far more 'damage" to society- then a couple who wants to settle down and skip the single life where more lays with men that are married occur?

oh well.  

I dont think I want the government to fix any more problems.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 10:23:49 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I hope Pa doesnt do this.   The committee planned to then it put on hold.  It just seems mean.   WHo is the government to ban contracts?  and if that is a matter of course- then why are esoteric dirivative contracts not voided- which are doing far more 'damage" to society- then a couple who wants to settle down and skip the single life where more lays with men that are married occur?

oh well.  

I dont think I want the government to fix any more problems.



I didn't know same sex marriage was legal in PA.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 11:59:56 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Im very sad about this news, ...still so much to do, and change,
we need more love and happiness not division, ..I have hope for the future
Lucy


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(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 12:00:55 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Let's just make all marriage illegal---it will solve many, many problems!

;-)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 12:07:58 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		The lawyers would revolt.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 12:36:18 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
~ Fast Reply ~
The 'solution' seems obvious and easy - two reasons why it won't ever happen.

Remove the civil ceremony. Keep ceremony strictly voluntarily and optional for those choosing to have ceremony, religious or otherwise, as part of their union.

Keep the contract aspects civil and negotiated. 'Marriage Contracts'; or better yet for those who have an aversion of labeling marriage as anything other than the traditional age of consent male joined with an age of consent female; 'Partnership Agreements' can then be anything agreed to by the consenting parties - whoever they may be. Threesomes, foursomes, or morsomes of any mix of gender can be legally joined and placate the need to establish the 'vulture' pecking order in the event of death or partnership dissolution. The Fed recognizes partnerships and has tax benefits or obligations specific to the varying forms of partnerships. Why not use the concept for this issue and avoid the 'equal', or depending on how you look at it, the 'more equal' status of same gender unions.

The solution would allow the religions to withhold their ceremony or open it without consequence or compromise while at the same time permit the civil benefits provided by the contract. Sure, some could be standard 'boiler plate' but under this idea they could also be very specific, subject to time and renewal, and pragmatically addressing all, or at least as many of the issues deemed contractually important.

While the religions will keep their franchise; the contractual element should make the legal industry down right ecstatic. Imagine all the lawsuits arguing specific intentions and the 'performance' or better yet, the 'unable to perform' clause regarding sexual activity!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 12:46:44 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Lawyers Revolting??? tooo easy, hehehe
Lucy


_____________________________

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<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 2:59:53 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		Why can't this be argued under the 9th Amendment?

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 5:43:20 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I hope Pa doesnt do this.   The committee planned to then it put on hold.  It just seems mean.   WHo is the government to ban contracts?  and if that is a matter of course- then why are esoteric dirivative contracts not voided- which are doing far more 'damage" to society- then a couple who wants to settle down and skip the single life where more lays with men that are married occur?

oh well.  

I dont think I want the government to fix any more problems.



I didn't know same sex marriage was legal in PA.


It isnt.

The state congress tho must get on the ball. utility rate caps expire soon and we will face increases of 40-60%

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 5:44:39 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

The marriages will be as if they never happened. 



            This is incorrect.  A constitutional amendment is not retroactive.  Those marriages performed during the legal window have not been nullified, and are still binding.  The law takes effect immediately, and no new licenses can be issued. 

      Now the lawyers get it, probably all the way to the US Supreme Court.
      

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/5/2008 6:24:47 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		Fast reply:
Since same sex marriage was a product of an "activist judiciary"  my guess is the Ca. supreme court will just strike it down as unconstitutional and the jesus junquies will be right back where they started.

H.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/9/2008 12:24:55 PM   
masterjim37


Posts: 9
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I find it sad that people still have issue with this topic. Who has the right to tell another their pursuit of happiness is wrong or illegal? Let face it, they can take away a groups right to marry, but it doesn't change them, which is what this group really wants. They are still gay, will still hold hands in public, ad show affection. So why should they care if they can get married. Why doesn't this lame group tell what they really want, which is to hide gay people.. so sad!! What like the hetrosexually comunnity is doing such a great job with  marrage, only a 50% divorce rate... way go!! I only hope the NAACP goes after this as hard as they would if it was a law agianst another minority group. Just my 2 cents worth.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/9/2008 6:47:57 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		So the marxist commies in Cali went so far left they they actually became hard right?
How did they go from banning guns to banning gay marriage? Oh right ran out of things to ban?

(in reply to masterjim37)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Same Sex Marrriage Legal In California? - 11/9/2008 8:01:38 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
The marriages will be as if they never happened. 
 
This is incorrect.  A constitutional amendment is not retroactive.  Those marriages performed during the legal window have not been nullified, and are still binding.  The law takes effect immediately, and no new licenses can be issued. 


I didn't realize until now that what I said could be taken two different ways.  I meant, "the marriages will be as if the AMENDMENTS never happened."  When I used the word "they", I meant the vote, not the marriages themselves.  I think later on I said that unless there is a specific retroactive component written into a law, it is not retro. 

Cali



_____________________________

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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/12/2008 7:12:10 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

So the marxist commies in Cali went so far left they they actually became hard right?



Would that be the same Marxist commies who are like the fourth or fifth largest economy in the world?
 
H.

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Same Sex Marriage Legal In California? - 11/12/2008 8:31:52 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
The 'solution' seems obvious and easy - two reasons why it won't ever happen.

Remove the civil ceremony. Keep ceremony strictly voluntarily and optional for those choosing to have ceremony, religious or otherwise, as part of their union.

Keep the contract aspects civil and negotiated. 'Marriage Contracts'; or better yet for those who have an aversion of labeling marriage as anything other than the traditional age of consent male joined with an age of consent female; 'Partnership Agreements' can then be anything agreed to by the consenting parties - whoever they may be. Threesomes, foursomes, or morsomes of any mix of gender can be legally joined and placate the need to establish the 'vulture' pecking order in the event of death or partnership dissolution. The Fed recognizes partnerships and has tax benefits or obligations specific to the varying forms of partnerships. Why not use the concept for this issue and avoid the 'equal', or depending on how you look at it, the 'more equal' status of same gender unions.

The solution would allow the religions to withhold their ceremony or open it without consequence or compromise while at the same time permit the civil benefits provided by the contract. Sure, some could be standard 'boiler plate' but under this idea they could also be very specific, subject to time and renewal, and pragmatically addressing all, or at least as many of the issues deemed contractually important.

While the religions will keep their franchise; the contractual element should make the legal industry down right ecstatic. Imagine all the lawsuits arguing specific intentions and the 'performance' or better yet, the 'unable to perform' clause regarding sexual activity!


I am completely bumfuddled by this apparent inability folks have to distinquish between a church wedding and a courthouse wedding.  It seems pretty clear to me, either way you're f**king married in the eyes of the law.
 
I'm not aware of any gay couples who have gotten divoced, and so I don't know how 'equitable distribution of property' is going to work in Family Courts around the country.
 
The f**king last thing anyone needs is a separate body of laws and courts for handling divorce by gay couples as compared to divorce by hetero couples.
 
However, when it comes to things like planning for retirement, or drafting a will, the law is very 'hetero' at times.  Property law in the U.S, evolved from the Common Law of Great Britian (except for Louisiana).  It's not unusual to see a provision which protects a 'widow', e.g  How is the law going to skew for gay couples?
 
Civil Unions are just so much bullshit.  It's a homophobe's way of enforcing 'Jim Crow' laws wich once existed all over the South to 'separate' 'whites' from African-Americans.  We cannot have 'Separate But Equal' again.
 
Aren't you in California?  Can you tell us what the f**k happened?  I hear the TV ads, etc. were very, very 'dirty tricks'.
 
Why the f**k am I not hearing about this on the FRONT page of the NY Times?
 
California Police Beat Prop. 8 Protestors
 
BTW, is FlamingPolitcs.com a good site for folks who give a shit about gay and lesbian people? The Human Rights Commission PAC has been a waste of my time -- what nitwits.
 
You don't have to be gay or lesbian to love someone who is, or to find the rise in intolerance unacceptable.  I don't hang ugly wallpaper in my living room, and I don't want to live around folks who spout stooopid shit about gay and lesbian people.
 
Someone's gonna say something stoopid about gay marriage to my face, and end up very surprised when I punch their f**king lights out. 
 
Peace out.
 
candystripper 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 38
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