Who has it really? (Full Version)

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missturbation -> Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:25:51 AM)

'After all, we have the power. Never mind the philosophical arguments that the slaves are the power holders here. The slave has one power only - to quit. We have everything else, including the threat of dismissal.'
 
From tales of the marketplace, the academy.
 
So who do you think really has the power?



zakkan -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:29:30 AM)

I think the power to quit is a very great power. It can be used to bring about other things.

Likewise the threat of dismissal.

So I believe power is more or less shared between the two, depending on who is more committed to the relationship.



RCdc -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:31:45 AM)

Everyone does.  But then, it's not about power.
 
the.dark.



VampiresLair -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:32:27 AM)

We share it. We have a TPE relationship but I am not clueless enough to think that by surrendering power, Fox no longer has any. He can walk away. So, while I hold all the power in our relationship on a day to day basis, make the decisions and call the shots, Fox still has the ability to throw that for a loop. The reason I can hold the power is because I respect the fact that while I have it now, I am not guaranteed to have it forever if I do not respect and maintain my relationship and a happy slave.

DV



missturbation -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:34:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

We share it. We have a TPE relationship but I am not clueless enough to think that by surrendering power, Fox no longer has any. He can walk away. So, while I hold all the power in our relationship on a day to day basis, make the decisions and call the shots, Fox still has the ability to throw that for a loop. The reason I can hold the power is because I respect the fact that while I have it now, I am not guaranteed to have it forever if I do not respect and maintain my relationship and a happy slave.

DV



i personally completely agree with this.
Very nicely said [:D]



OttersSwim -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:36:38 AM)

I love the term "Power Exchange" as I think it states it all perfectly.  Two exchanging power to mutual benefit. 

Subs and slaves generally have a "line item" (safe word) veto and an all out "i'm walkin'" veto over anything that happens.  All other power is generally given over to the dominant who has freedom of action within the agreed upon framework - whatever that may be.

My 2c...



missturbation -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:37:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Everyone does.  But then, it's not about power.
 
the.dark.


For you.
For me there is a 'power exchange' involved.



OmegaG -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 9:57:08 AM)

generally the person who cares the least about the relationship has the most power.

The power to quit or to be released is only as strong as the desire the other person has to continue the partnership. 

And power without emotion can lead to apathy from the other person eventually which changes the power dynamic.

In a functional relationship, both parties should have equal power and if one gives the other control, then it is his/her choice and has nothing to do with power.



MarcEsadrian -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 10:10:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

'After all, we have the power. Never mind the philosophical arguments that the slaves are the power holders here. The slave has one power only - to quit. We have everything else, including the threat of dismissal.

So who do you think really has the power?



The power to walk away is undeniable. Then again, walking away is not always so easy in practice, and it should be mentioned again that this option is available to both parties. It is my contention that if you are a consensual slave, the notion of walking away is a choice already considered and passionately laid to rest.



agirl -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 10:13:25 AM)

Well, yes..............M has the ability, the right and the authority (power) to have things run the way he wants them. I have the power to either accept that or bugger off.

Who has the power? We both have  power. How we use it and why, differs inside our relationship.

There's 'power' and there's 'specific power'.

agirl







MadRabbit -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 10:46:43 AM)

I think as you become more secure with your orientation and your own relationships, this becomes less and less of a question worth answering or even employing mental energy to attempt to find an answer.

Edited to Add : I say this because given that we have a clear dichotomy with the words dominant and submissive that represent an imbalance of authority/power, then the answer should be well...obvious.

I have found people who worry about it to fall primarily into the category of dominants who are insecure with their own authority and looking for reasoning to validate that they have it and submissives who are insecure about their own orientation as a submissive and looking for some reason to justify themselves as not being powerless or dependant in their own relationship.

If not, then in my eyes, why even worry about some perceived paradox beyond the orientations?

Edited to Add One More Time : If your an orientation of submissive where the basic definition is a lesser degree of authority or power, then why would you take on the label and try to find reasoning to assert that you have more?

If your an orientation of dominant where the basic definition is a higher degree of authority or power, then why implore reasoning to either validate or invalidate a notion that you have less?



DesFIP -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 10:58:05 AM)

Both of course. If either of us is unhappy in the relationship, then we both will be unsatisfied. If he refuses to dominate me, then I can't submit and vice versa.

But I don't find fantasy fiction that useful a guide to real relationships.



oceanwynds -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 11:17:56 AM)

Please bare with me as I write the following.  I serve Sir because of a deep love within me that needs to serve him. He calls the shots in our relationship, simply because my heart desires to serve him in the way he asks me. He can end our relationship at any time, and so can I, but there is no desire within me to not serve him.

Have I given him complete power? What does he give me in return? I know that my heart says to serve Sir, so there is no disagreement in me to honor his desire for us. The relationship is in the way that he sees fit for his needs. Am i giving him complete power over our relationship, yes and without any strings attached. I am not his by methods used in Ds or vanilla.  In return, I get to serve him, without stipulations on what I want. Are any of my needs not being answered? No I have what I need.

There is another factor that has come to my mind. In reading The Marketplace series and listening to people who are slaves/submissives, one thing I seen repeated is the need to serve period. My need to serve is used in many other areas of my life. I cannot serve a Dominante out of a need to serve. In my case, there have been very few who I had consider giving all i am. If Sir would ,down the road, 'dismiss' me, I would not actively seek to give completely again. I would not enter  Ds relationships, because I am driven to serve 'a master'.  That is not a part of me, but what is within me is to serve if and when i connect to a person. When i find that connection, which is seldom,  I will offer me without any strings attached. My power is in my willingness and thirst to serve Sir, and that i give freely, it does not leave me without anything. Maybe the reason i do not feel i have nothing, is because i would not choose someone who had nothing within them. Sir permits me to serve him, that in itself is an honor that can never equal zero. Who has the power? We both do. Giving all of what one is, is very powerful, when not expecting certain things to be return. My power is always available to Sir, and I give it to Him willingly with or without him telling me he loves me. My power is not attached to that, just to permitting me to give freely to one i have chosen.

oceanwynds



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 11:21:29 AM)

I have a "my way or the highway" relationships. However, this isn't as harsh as it sounds because I'm a patient person and I realize that sometimes, "no" means "not yet" or "I'm not ready". Saying, "no", in other words disobedience, is my slave's one real option. There are consequences to saying, "no" and meaning it.

Master Fire



leadership527 -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 11:40:51 AM)

I think the word "power" is illusory in this context and so trying to decide who has "it" is hopeless.  Reasonbly speaking, given that it takes two to tango, any reasonable usage of the word "power" would mean in my book that it is shared by both equally.  That's why I like "authority" so much more.



LadyPact -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 11:44:08 AM)

Yes, a slave always has the power to quit, but it's kind of the same as a nuclear bomb.  It can only be used once.



JustDarkness -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 11:50:48 AM)

does it matter who has it...when every one is happy?



SteelofUtah -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 12:12:01 PM)

I am reminded of this exact conversation between a new comer at a munch and myself

Please forgive but I will have to Paraphrase.

I had just watched the movie "Instinct" and a quote from that movie has been stuck in my head ever since when it comes to Power Exchanges.

Power and Control are illusions, They don't really exist. There is only what is given, because power cannot even be taken it can only be given. To some degree this is the concept that I pulled out of that anyway.

So when this new comer asked who really has control I said The Person Involved. To which she looked confused and said "Which Person" and I said "Any one that is involved has the Control because they determine which person to give control too and how much control to give."

The conversation we had that night was very long and although I never saw her again it was a wonderful conversation and one that I refer to alot when discussing the TAE (Total Authority Exchange) that andi and I live.

Power and Control are Illusions because I only have them because they are given to me. No Matter what the person in question has the free will to Stop giving me them or Stop taking personal responsibility for them as is suggested in Internal Enslavement. No matter how the cookie crumbles I will only have them if they are given directly to me, free will dictates this.

That being said I have to cultivate this given control and power in order to maintain it. If I take control of a girl and then take her for advantage, abuse her diference to me, and treat her poorly and take so little interest in her personal safty then I would hope for gods sakes that she tells me to "Fuck Off and Die". I believe that the Power Balance is based on a number of things but at the core is the desire for the submissive to WANT to do what I want them to do. I have a very exacting taste when it comes to sexual debauchery and sadistic pleasures, I even have a harsh way of applying them. So how do you get a girl to not only do them but WANT to do them?

I see it as a type of conditioning. I have a Concept of Obey or Leave, Either you will do what is expected of you or you will be leave my company. If I come out from the word jump with "You will suck Cock ALL DAY EVERY DAY!!!!! Muahaa haa haa (Evil Laugh for Measure)" Then I would expect them to say "Go Fuck Yourself" and be out the door. However if I take the time and show her what being with me means, If I show her the caring and gentle side of me, if I show her the benifits of being my slave and then I push the limits by demanding something that I know she is less than comfortable with but doing it will be less painful then not being with me then eventually she will do things she is not comfortable with because leaving is just no longer an option.

So in order to get contol of the girl I have to control my own desires I have to place them on the back burner in a way knowing that if I create a positive concept in which the decision to surrender to my will is always the less painful decision then I will in effect get what I desire.

Ever Heard the Phrase "A girl who has completely surrendered would Jump off a Building or walk across Broken Glass if her Master desired." I used to think it was Bullshit. After a few Years I began to believe that it was only true because a girl who surrenders would only do so to someone she knew would never require her to do so. Then Later I realized that a women who has completely surrendered would do so because to no do so would be more painful than the task she was asked to do was.

This is not a Matter of True or Real or Right, it is simply a matter of Control and that when given completely it is a choice by BOTH PARTIES the one who gives it and the one who recieves it, and THAT is a powerful thing.

Okay so I have Rambled Enough.

Steel



missturbation -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 12:13:10 PM)

Apologies mad rabbit but we are going to butt heads again [:D]
 
quote:

I think as you become more secure with your orientation and your own relationships, this becomes less and less of a question worth answering or even employing mental energy to attempt to find an answer.


Are you implying i am not secure with my orientation and my own relationships? Because after all as far as you are concerned i wouldn't have asked this question if i was secure in myself.
 
quote:

Edited to Add : I say this because given that we have a clear dichotomy with the words dominant and submissive that represent an imbalance of authority/power, then the answer should be well...obvious.

Tha answer is obvious huh?
So who here has it right and who has it wrong?
I see a variance of answers and well since the answer is 'obvious' to you i hope you will care to share it.
 







missturbation -> RE: Who has it really? (11/5/2008 12:14:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

does it matter who has it...when every one is happy?


Probably not.
However it may do.
Who knows ?
Shrugs [:D]



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