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Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 7:10:27 PM   
kyraofMists


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I am going to take a chance and share something deeply personal that I am struggling with. As many may know, I am in an open poly relationship with my Lord and alandra. This past year has been the most rewarding of my entire life. It has also been very challenging. I have a deep-seated fear of rejection and intimacy. To go from being completely independent to interdependent with not one, but two other people has caused this fear to be overwhelming at times.

I have struggled with this of late and it causes me to hold back and take things very slowly in my relationships. Being the perfectionist that I am, I tend to beat myself up over the “appearance” of not doing it fast enough. It is my time-table that I have in my head and not my Lord’s that I think I am not meeting.

I can hear some of the advice now; I need to talk with my Lord. *s* We discuss this often. The conversations are almost always extremely productive and useful for both of us. It is not lack of communication in the relationship that fuels this issue. I know my Lord’s and alandra’s thoughts on this and I am just wanting to add other perspectives in the hopes that something said will spark an idea that will help me with the next step. Many things I have read in response to other posts lately have assisted me in redefining old beliefs and ideas.

I find it impossible sometimes to wrap my brain around the fact that I am owned. There are times that I find myself taking a mental step back and saying to my self “What the hell are you doing?” This life that I am living is so far from anything that I ever imagined. I never imagined that I could be completely possessed by another person and be healthy.

I guess that is the key, that this could happen and I would be healthier and happier because of it. The fear of intimacy is raging against this; it’s as if it knows it is losing and it doing anything it can to keep me. I have never been so open and vulnerable to another person in my life and I am so afraid of losing it, to be this close to perfection and have it taken away.

I am afraid of going forward and of going back. I am stuck in this one spot right now. Fear seems to be a constant companion of late, most times I manage it well, but other times I am controlled by it. I keep trying to find the courage to just let go and trust my Lord more, but something keeps holding me back and I have no idea what it is.

There have been fleeting moments, sometimes hours, when I have felt myself let go. I am not referring to times during play either, but times when I am by myself and I just open up to trusting him. They have been the most peaceful moments that I have had and then the fear comes back riding me harder than ever.

I am looking for thoughts and ideas on how others manage their fears. Hopefully something shared will resonate with me and I will be able to apply it to my life, or maybe it will help someone else who is struggling.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 7:32:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Well I manage my fears of driving and getting lost mostly through a few methods:

Being as sure as I can of myself before getting into the car, this often includes a mantra something like "You can drive, you drive well, you've driven before, you're fine."

Hearing other people's horror stories. Knowing they've gone through it and sharing my fear brings it out into the open and makes it less scary, more real, more manageable.

Going through crappy experiences. Simply put, going through it is the best way to know you can go through it. Shared experiences and time together, focused attention on key issues and at least trusting THEM to know they have your best interest is how you reach simply being together.

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 7:40:54 PM   
MTslave


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-slips into shrink mode...frogive me-

One can not 'defeat' fear, but we can remove the power from fear by not feeding it or accepting it. Unless fear is sustained it cannot survive. The way to conquer fear is with unconditional love. However this love does not come from another... it's the hardest love of all to find.... unconditional self love. Until you can do that for yourself you will have a hard time accepting it... and thats what causes the fear of rejection.

Now that being said, how can one over come this and learn self love. I wish there was a simple answer.

There are many self help sites online that will help you understand what you need to do. The process of learning to love. But the only true way to start.. is to fully accept... and want deep down... that this is what you want. When that happens then your subconsious opens to all sorts of new ideas. Everyone being such individuals makes it tough for just one formula to fit. So the best way is to start at the top... Google it and start reading... some things will strike a chord and others may not..pick and chose what makes senes to you and learn to love yourself. Once you can do that you will find that accepting that from others, will no longer scare you, but fill you with incredible peace.

Humbly submitted
Master T's slave


< Message edited by MTslave -- 12/17/2005 7:41:48 PM >


_____________________________

Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it. It really is worth fighting for, being brave for, risking everything for. And the trouble is, if you don't risk everything, you risk even more.”- Erica Jong

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 7:56:41 PM   
kisshou


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What exactly are you afraid of? I read this and kept wondering what you mean by fear of intimacy.

Are you afraid if you open up and trust him completely that he won't want you any more or that he will leave you?

Are you afraid you would be hurt physically?


Is it that deep down you really believe you can take better care of yourself by yourself than he can of you? Do you feel your judgement is better than his?

I am not asking you all this to cast stones. I have learned with time and experience that when I have a lapse in trust with the Owner I always end up completely regretting it and realizing how wrong I was. With his patience and training I have learned to say how high, not why , when he says jump.

Introspection can be a good thing but it is not a slaves place to judge herself lacking if the One who owns her does not feel that way also.

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 8:38:09 PM   
OscarHargraves


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Hi Kyra,
It sounds to me like you are managing your fears quite well. Everybody wonders if they are doing the right things at times. Everybody has misgivings or they are unsure if this the proper path to their future. You are doing what is perfectly normal.

My advice:
Use your head and think through your decisions.
Use your heart and decide if this is where you want to be.


_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 9:17:06 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

I am looking for thoughts and ideas on how others manage their fears. Hopefully something shared will resonate with me and I will be able to apply it to my life, or maybe it will help someone else who is struggling.


How to manage fears. The only real way is to let them go. Sometimes that is alot harder to do though. When I first married, my biggest fear was not that he would not love me, but rather...if I give up myself completly, I lose myself in the process...I was terrified of giving him that control...so terrified of letting myself become that exposed and vunerable...it took me two years to learn that by holding back, I was in fact retaining control... used all the classic excuses...I am afraid of intimacy, I am afraid of losing my independence, etc......when in reality, it was nothing more than me trying to retain some small part of control.

It's not uncommon to have that unconscious need...especially if you go from being independent to being interdependent. It's extremely hard to let go of that one small part of yourself, because in doing so, you are admitting to yourself that YOU WILLINGLY gave it up. It's easy to say to someone else that you willingly submit to their control in your life...alot harder to admit it to yourself.

Anyway, that's how it was for me LOL. And yes, I still struggle with it to this day. That little part that says...this is mine, and you can't have it. :)

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/17/2005 10:51:14 PM   
Crazytwice


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Hi kyra,
My thoughts on this may or may not help, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure trusting your master more will help. That concept seems unattainable, as i don't believe any of us of are capable of giving ourselves entirely to another human being.
Even in slavery, we still have our own will. ultimately it is a choice to be there.
I think the trust comes first with ourselves and everything else follows. A matter of trusting YOUR choice to be there. A matter of trusting, even if your choice is wrong, you will still be OK. Giving your power, the need to control, to something even higher than your master. An acceptance of what will be, will be. Our health, our relationships, our life even, can be over in an instant. None of us really, even your master, have any power to control any outcome. At some point, it's a leap of faith. It sounds like perhaps you are at that leap, and must chose whether to turn back or go forward, and be prepared to accept the consequences of whatever decision is made.

I hope this perspective helps fuel more thoughts.
CT

_____________________________

"If you build it, he will come"
~Field of Dreams~

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 12:04:18 AM   
MsIncognito


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
I keep trying to find the courage to just let go and trust my Lord more, but something keeps holding me back and I have no idea what it is.


Stop right there. This is not an attempt to discredit KnightofMists but I think this is the problem right here. IMO, it's not him that you need to trust in him more, it's YOU. You know he is trustworthy or you would not have come as far as you have in this relationship. All three of you are to be commended for making this work. It's not easy and I always admire those who can make it work in a healthy way....but I digress.

IMO, you need to be able to trust YOURSELF more. You need to be able to trust that:

(a) You have within you what it takes to make this work. This is something you want and it's well within your reach. You have what it takes or you wouldn't have come this far.

(b) No matter what happens insofar as this relationship goes you are capable of not letting losing this relationship destroy you. Yes, losing a relationship that is so precious to you is difficult, but trust that you have the inner strength to get through even that.

As long as you lack trust in yourself it will manifest as fear and hold you back. IMO, you don't need to work on letting go of the fear or trusting KnightofMists more; you need to trust yourself more.

Best of luck

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 12/18/2005 12:06:49 AM >

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 12:17:02 AM   
Wolfie648


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quote:

I am looking for thoughts and ideas on how others manage their fears. Hopefully something shared will resonate with me and I will be able to apply it to my life, or maybe it will help someone else who is struggling.

Knight's kyra


You like the fear. Why manage it? Surf-board anyone?

D (owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 1:00:39 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I have a deep-seated fear of rejection and intimacy. To go from being completely independent to interdependent with not one, but two other people has caused this fear to be overwhelming at times.

Those fears are fairly common and normal. Add to that going through a major lifestyle change and the resultant feelings of apprehension and uncertainty are a natural reaction. Often a fear of intimacy is a combination of a fear of rejection and a fear of failure. Both come from uncertainty, that is you are not certain of being accepted if you are not "good enough" and you are not certain you can be "good enough". Dealing with these kinds of fears involves boosting your confidence level.

quote:

I have struggled with this of late and it causes me to hold back and take things very slowly in my relationships. Being the perfectionist that I am, I tend to beat myself up over the “appearance” of not doing it fast enough. It is my time-table that I have in my head and not my Lord’s that I think I am not meeting.

Again, this comes down to not feeling that you are or can be "good enough." You've set very high standards for yourself and are pursuing those. The problem with that is that you are trying to achieve the goals you set, rather than the goals KoM set for you. Two areas you can work on in this are A) for KoM to make sure he's been very clear in his goals for you, including smaller goal steps towards each larger goal so that you know exactly what is expected of you; and B) for you to work on refocusing yourself onto those goals and let go of the private goals you've set for yourself.

To phrase this another way, you're trying to be the slave you think you should be instead of focusing on being the slave he wants you to be. You're afraid of not being able to succeed at his goals, so you've set your own set of goals as a way of coping. Part of that is being a perfectionist, you want to do better than expected and tend to be an over achiever (I've met a lot of submissives over the years that were over achievers). But it may also be partly that by setting sugh high goals you've given yourself a private excuse if you do fail (and you have certain unconscious expectation that you will)... you can say to yourself the goals were impossible anyway, so it wasn't really your fault.

quote:

I can hear some of the advice now; I need to talk with my Lord. *s* We discuss this often.

True, but its also important to know what to talk about, to get to the root of things. You can talk something to death an still not get anywhere if you don't know what areas to focus on, how to identify the private logic that may be involved, how to identify subconscious goals, etc.

quote:

I find it impossible sometimes to wrap my brain around the fact that I am owned. There are times that I find myself taking a mental step back and saying to my self “What the hell are you doing?” This life that I am living is so far from anything that I ever imagined. I never imagined that I could be completely possessed by another person and be healthy.

I guess that is the key, that this could happen and I would be healthier and happier because of it. The fear of intimacy is raging against this; it’s as if it knows it is losing and it doing anything it can to keep me. I have never been so open and vulnerable to another person in my life and I am so afraid of losing it, to be this close to perfection and have it taken away.

I am afraid of going forward and of going back. I am stuck in this one spot right now. Fear seems to be a constant companion of late, most times I manage it well, but other times I am controlled by it. I keep trying to find the courage to just let go and trust my Lord more, but something keeps holding me back and I have no idea what it is.

Okay, you've mixed two fears here. I'll deal with each in turn.

The first you identified was a lack of confidence about your choice, about the lifestyle you are now living. Dealing with this can be done by raising your confidence level regarding that lifestyle, your choice and the effect it has had on your life. Spending some time writing in your journal can be helpful, work on listing all the positive ways this choice of lifestyle has impacted your life. List some concrete ways it has improve the quality of your life. List some ways it has been beneficial to you as a person. Another technique is to remind yourself, or be reminded, in various situations in your day to day life where things have improved. For example, suppose a slave had a problem with compulsive spending, got herself into huge debt because she couldn't control that impulse. While shopping, she still has the compulsion but its now managed as part of the relationship, she can't act on the impulse any longer and is no longer getting into debt while her old debt is also being paid off. That's a concrete benefice of being a slave for her, being made more consciously aware of it gives her a tangible example of how her life has been improved as a slave.

The second fear you identified was again the fear of intimacy. More specifically you indicated there is a part of yourself fighting against opening up, trusting, surrendering. It is a natural reaction when we are unsure of ourselves, of what we are doing, of a choice, to hesitate and question. Its a natural reaction to want to pull away, to avoid, to delay, etc. However, as your confidence level in what you are doing rises, that defensive reaction abates. From your description it sounds as if you have reached an important turning point in your relationship. You've become aware of what you are doing, the full impact of it on your life, to a degree you truly understand at this point what you have gotten yourself into and what it will mean for your future. But you still lack sufficient confidence in that choice. These two conditions combined have brought your fears to the surface and intensified them. Essentially, on some level you are aware you have made a very serious commitment to something you are not fully confident of. So again, this stresses the importance of raising your confidence level about your choice and the lifestyle you have chosen.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Going through crappy experiences. Simply put, going through it is the best way to know you can go through it. Shared experiences and time together, focused attention on key issues and at least trusting THEM to know they have your best interest is how you reach simply being together.

There is so much truth to this because what this is really about is increasing confidence. Sometimes the best way to increase confidence is by doing. If you do something and succeed you affirm your ability to succeed in a very tangible way. The one draw back is that if you fail badly you end up more afraid than you were to begin with. Lots of positive reinforcement from others here, setting up controlled situations (where the risk of failure is controlled and kept to a manageable level, as well as the degree of failure), setting realistic goals so that you aren't over challenged are all helpful.


quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

When I first married, my biggest fear was not that he would not love me, but rather...if I give up myself completely, I lose myself in the process...I was terrified of giving him that control...so terrified of letting myself become that exposed and vunerable...it took me two years to learn that by holding back, I was in fact retaining control... used all the classic excuses...I am afraid of intimacy, I am afraid of losing my independence, etc......when in reality, it was nothing more than me trying to retain some small part of control.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that fear expressed, that they would lose themselves. There are actually two things at work in that. One is the loss of control, but the other is the loss of self, and both are closely intertwined. Each and every one of us has a self image of who we are made up of our own perceptions of our self taken from what we have learned from all the various experiences of our life, this makes up our self identity. It is literally who we imagine we are. Most of us also imagine this self identity is pretty fixed, that is, we're pretty certain we know who we are and that that is a reliable assumption. We also, most of us, believe we are in control of that self identity... we believe we alone decide who we are and no one else can change this. We are mostly wrong. But given that belief that most have, its not too hard to understand someone being a little (or a lot) freaked out when they wake up one morning and realize that not only is that self image, that self identity changing... but that someone else is in control of those changes. And that gets expressed as a fear that who you are is going to be lost.

Here's a bit of truth, and it may freak a lot of people out. First of all, who you are is not only changeable... its constantly changing. Our self identities are never a fixed thing, they are constantly changing in various ways as we go through life. Every new experience we have, every day of our lives, changes us... changes how we perceive ourselves and who we think we are. Sometimes those changes are so subtle we don't notice at all, sometimes they're more dramatic. For example, suppose you had never done pottery in your life... and one day you go to a craft fair and try making a pot at a pottery demonstration. Suppose you do well, not perfect, but pretty good and the instructor comments you did very well for a beginner... that you have natural talent. Presto... your self image just changed from someone you thought could not do pottery (because you had never had any experience to cause you to believe you could) to someone who can do pottery and might be good at it (because you just had an experience that indicated that). Your self identity just changed. Happens to all of us all the time. The truth is our self image, our self identity is made up of what we learned from all the experiences of our lives. We are what we have learned to be.

And we are not entirely in control of that self identity either. I don't care if you're Mr Domly Dom Master and think you control it all... you don't, none of us does. While we can exert some conscious control over things with choices we make... there is so much more that affects us that we do not control. While we can control our choices, how we choose to react to thing... much of what we believe about the world around us and ourselves comes from experience over which we had no control. For example... you can't control how someone else will treat you, but their treatment of you can affect your self image. If someone is nice to you, seems to have confidence in you, seems to think you can succeed; you tend to begin to believe that about yourself. Their treatment of you affects your self image, but you don't control how they treat you and you can only control that affect through a conscious effort. Victims of rape often suffer a traumatic change in their self image and have difficulty coping with this and restoring their previous self image (or something close to it)... this is another example of how events and experience affect us in ways beyond our control, and change who we think we are. Not only do our experience change us, but once changed, there is no going back... you can never be that person you were again because you can't erase the experience. Or as the Chinese put it, you can't step in the same river twice (because the water you stepped in will never be there again).

It doesn't help any that we are taught to be in control of ourselves, to be independant, to believe in self determination from the cradle on. We are taught that we can be and should be fully in control of ourselves. Never mind that same society also teaches us to do just the opposite when it instructs us to submit to authority in the form of government, laws, etc. The truth is somewhere in the middle... we have some control over ourselves, we can control the decisions we make, and we are responsbile for ourselves. But, we also learn to give up some control to others, by obeying laws, working in a job for someone else, etc. None of us is ever fully in control of who we are, though all of us have some control over it.

For a slave then, its a question of relinquishing that last bit of control, of fully submitting to the control of others over who you are. But even in this the slave still has a small amount of control. You control who you choose to give that control too, who you submit to. If you fear losing yourself, what are you really afraid of? Is it becoming someone you wouldn't want to be, someone you wouldn't like? Then choose wisely, choose someone you know will change you into the person you hoped to be, whoever or whatever that might be.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 8:03:42 AM   
IrishMist


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/sigh

Very well said Padriag

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 10:29:44 AM   
truesub4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


I find it impossible sometimes to wrap my brain around the fact that I am owned. There are times that I find myself taking a mental step back and saying to my self “What the hell are you doing?” This life that I am living is so far from anything that I ever imagined.


I'm about to embark on this very aspect in my life. And I'll admit, i'm scared to death. It's been so long for me. Though I have before, I was younger, no one else relying on me as I do now. I had no cares back then and was still learning. What I learned back then, has brought me to where I am now. I was less scared when I was a teen and in my 20's than I am now at almost 40. I find myself trying to talk myself out of really being owned. I also have others telling me I have no business allowing myself to enter into a relationship with my Master because of my unmentionables. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. But my fears are my worse enemy in all this. Master and this one has talked of this. And though he reassures me and makes me feel at ease while discussing this matter. I find myself slipping back into my fears when I'm alone.

I don't fear Master. Or Our life together so much as I fear being a failure to my Master most of all. And no matter how much he assures me that I could not fail him. I battle this fear constantly. And when I begin thinking of my fear for failure. I take a step back and ask why do I allow myself to fear? I would not feel this fear and frustration if I just didn't allow myself to be owned by one. So then right back into the fear of failure if I inform Master I want out. Especially when I know in my heart, that I do not want released.

Trust me, this battle goes back and forth with me. And it is frustrating as hell. I just wish you all the luck on battling this fear you have as well. But I feel that if one doesn't fear something, anything. Then one doesn't feel at all. And that's a crying shame.

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 10:57:55 AM   
kyraofMists


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I appreciate all the responses that I have received so far. For the most part none of the information or ideas are new to me, just presented in a little different light. It will take time for me to sift through it all and let my mind mull things over. For now I will comment on a few things.

quote:

Original: kisshou

What exactly are you afraid of? I read this and kept wondering what you mean by fear of intimacy.

Are you afraid if you open up and trust him completely that he won't want you any more or that he will leave you?

Are you afraid you would be hurt physically?


kisshou,

The fear of intimacy for me is tied up in the fear of being rejected; that I will share my inner-self and then be rejected for not being good enough. I knew this about myself going into the relationship and have always made the choice to be more and more vulnerable with my Lord. As, LA suggested, just doing what I fear has helped me come this far. I just feel stuck at this one point and not able to move past it. It could also be that I am just not ready and have to be a little more patient.

I am not sure I understand what you are asking in your next question, if I am afraid of being hurt physically? Since my Lord is a sadist, that could be taken more than one way. Are you asking if I am afraid my Lord will be physically abusive or if I fear our play? The answer to both is absolutely not. Knowing my Lord, it would be absurd to even contemplate him ever being abusive. As for the other interpretation, no, I am not afraid of our play. My Lord is a sadist and I am a masochist. He enjoys inflicting pain and I enjoy receiving it. So I do not fear our play, I revel in it. I just didn’t understand this question in the context of the post that I had written.

IrishMist,

What you said made sense, especially the part about trying to maintain some control. As much of a dichotomy as it may present, I am a slave who is a control freak to a small extent. It’s all part of my perfectionism that I try and fight. I have this image in my head of how things should be and if someone else can’t do it that way, then I’ll do it myself. My parents have always said the first sentence I ever spoke was, “I’ll do it myself!” Interestingly enough, becoming a manager in my company has helped me work past this in a lot of ways. I learned to delegate and then hold people accountable for doing the work and learned to let go of it being done my way.

Crazytwice and MsIncognito,

My Lord has said pretty much the same as both of you. I need to trust my decisions and my strengths and then just take that final leap of faith and let go.

Padriag,

Your words as always make sense to me. In fact it was a line in another post of yours from the thread Back and Rewind that spurred me to start this thread:

quote:

Original: Padriag

A slave who has fear as a master will never be able to fully serve you.



There is much to think about from your post. There are a few things that stand out to me at the moment. You mentioned my Lord’s goals and working towards those rather than my own. I have rules to follow, instructions and tasks to complete, but I am not sure that I have a firm grasp of what his goals are. I know a few of the mid term and long term goals, but I am not so clear on the short term ones. This is a question that I will have to ask him.

quote:

Original: Padriag

From your description it sounds as if you have reached an important turning point in your relationship. You've become aware of what you are doing, the full impact of it on your life, to a degree you truly understand at this point what you have gotten yourself into and what it will mean for your future. But you still lack sufficient confidence in that choice.



My initial reaction to this was to become defensive, which made me think there was probably something to this statement. I think the lack of confidence is because I do not trust myself to make healthy decisions for me. I have made some rather poor decisions in the past. The decision to become my Lord’s was considered in depth and the best decision was made at the time. Now living the reality of the relationship brings up aspects and considerations that were not available before.

My mind knows all the rational arguments, thoughts, considerations and I can follow the logic each time to the same conclusion, that I am his. But it is that last leap of faith that I am hesitating over.

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions.

Knight’s kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 11:04:00 AM   
IrishMist


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(( Hugs Kyra ))

Thats all

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 11:54:29 AM   
Padriag


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I'm glad you found my thoughts helpful. An just in case it needs to be said my mail box is always open to you and KoM. Hang in there and remember this quote:

Have confidence that if you have done a little thing well, you can do a bigger thing well too. - Storey

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 12:32:59 PM   
caitlyn


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Joined: 12/22/2004
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Believe me, I don't mean to trivialize your concerns ... but to offer an alternative point of view, what is there really to fear in all this?

You got involved in a really cool relationship. Just enjoy it and play it out. Even if the whole thing falls apart, you are no worse off than you were before you entered into it.

So, you worry about holding back, and not giving your all. Does having fear for that really change anything? To me, having fear in those situations, just compounds them.

So, managing fear ... how about first taking an objective look, and seeing it there is really any reason to feel that fear, or if the fear is just the heart confounding the head, confounding the heart. Then ... imagine the worst case scenario, and ask yourself if you are strong enough to survive that, and laugh all the while.

I don't know if this will help, but thought you offer you other views to help you make your own decision.


< Message edited by caitlyn -- 12/18/2005 12:34:31 PM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 6:52:06 PM   
fldrkhorse


Posts: 158
Joined: 11/5/2005
From: North Carolina
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First let me say anyone with the gumption to lay themselves out like that in this forum has NO fear. You have more strength than you know and I tip my hat in repsect.

My only limits a.k.a fears are the ones ones I put on myself. Therfore I cannot reach my natural depth with a fear of drowning.

_____________________________

I'm not where I need to be, but I'm better than I was yesterday.

Namaste, I honor the divine in you

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 7:24:59 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
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There's nothing wrong with a slow time table. Any relationship worth being in is built over time. I must confess to the same fears as you. I was deeply wounded emotionally and found it nearly impossible to fully trust and commit. Fortunately, I had the most patient of Doms, who over time proved that he was not going to give up on me and walk away. Insecurity becomes security when promises are kept, when your fears are addressed openly, when you are complimented for doing things right (Ok, I'm a sucker for " you're such a good girl!"), when you see that if you mess up, if you disappoint, if you make him mad, that he is going to correct you for sure, but he's also going to give you the means to be back in his good graces. Perfection, while a noble sounding goal, will always make you feel that you fall short. It's ok to be good enough, and failure is an opportunity to learn, not an excuse to give you the boot.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 12/18/2005 7:43:29 PM >

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RE: Managing Fears - 12/18/2005 9:04:21 PM   
camigirl


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I keep trying to find the courage to just let go and trust my Lord more, but something keeps holding me back and I have no idea what it is.


Perhaps you need to trust yourself.

This kind of reminds me of when my son entered elelmentary school he would take SEVERAL minuets just to print his name, making sure it was perfect. It would take him hours to do homework that generally should have taken less than one, and sometimes was not able to finish it.

Eventually, he realised he was being to hard on himself and was actually acheiving less in trying to be perfect. Once he let go of that, he also learned the outcome was pretty much the same, he still got good grades.
But now he also has more time to enjoy other things.

Try not to focus so much on the destination, its really the journey along the way that matters.

Best wishes to you and yours,
camigirl

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You had me at "stay"

(in reply to ChainedExistence)
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RE: Managing Fears - 12/19/2005 2:10:17 PM   
Sensualips


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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WARNING: Rambling babble ahead.

I have reflected my trust issues / control issues / fear of intimacy issues at some length. We all have protective circles in some form. While I certainly have no answers, these are the things I have considered.

Fear interferes with your capacity. When you have a fear of intimacy or commitment or whatever, it limits your capacity and no amount of logical effort can zap that away.

I think fear of intimacy is typically two types of fears, one of which you already identified - the fear of rejection or abandonment. You don't seem to fear the intimacy itself. You describe that as peaceful and talk of being close to perfection. What you fear is losing that. I don't think it as simple as nagging doubt that your Lord or Alandra will reject you. Perhaps you can answer what fears you have? Is it when a behavior is corrected it emotionally feels like a rejection of you rather then the undesired behavior, even if you logically tell yourself that is not the case? Is it that you do not trust your own judgement and fear the perfection you see within reach is an illusion? Is it that you fear you will do something "wrong" and mess it all up?

Feeling rejected or abandoned WILL happen at some point in EVERY relationship. It may be a small way or it may be a big way. If you feel rejected, it matters not what the intent or the circumstances are. If you perceive it, it is real to you.

I do think we all must take responsibility for defining our own worth instead of making others' and approval responsible for our feelings of worth. That seems increasingly difficult in a s/D relationship when approval of the D is perhaps a much stonger factor than a typical relationship. If we are secure in our own value, rejection becomes less of a concern. Not because it is not still upsetting, but because the need to avoid it and fear it lessens because it does not wound us as personally. We can examine it, learn from it, and not be shattered by it.

The second fear of intimacy is typically a fear of engulfment, of being controlled and losing oneself. We don't want to get too close or be too vulnerable because something that is frightening or anxiety-producing is associated with intimacy. I don't fear rejection, but I have an intense fear of engulfment.

This is also a little skewed in a s/D dynamic because control is part of it and very desired by some. But control and authority does not always mean power. I believe can give up control and submit to someone's authority without being emotionally powerless. In fact, that is part of why I am attracted to bottoming I believe...it is a practice session. A testing ground to show I can relinquish control and authority, and not lose my own identity. I can feel powerless without being powerless. I show myself I do not HAVE to be in charge all the time and control everything.

You said, "I find it impossible sometimes to wrap my brain around the fact that I am owned" and "I never imagined that I could be completely possessed by another person and be healthy." It sounds like you also fear engulfment, maybe in a different way. It sounds as if you revel in the relationship dynamic and are very happy - but have trouble trusting your own perception that this is good and healthy for you? When past experiences show us something we had believed in was misplaced faith, it changes your faith and capacity to trust yourself - especially to trust yourself to place all of your trust in another. (Whew, say that three times fast.) Coould the overwhleming concept of being owned simultaneously make you feel secure and content and fulfilled - but also terrified? Terrified of what?

I once got some very good advice on dealing with fear from a high school speech teacher. Pretend you are not afraid. The idea is that if you don't let yourself be paralyzed, stuck in one spot. You act like you are not scared and move. If you keep acting, eventually you will internalize it. I have actually used this with my unmentionables from everything from going down a slide to riding a bike to telling me something they did not wish to reveal. I use it myself as well. It is suprisingly effective.

I like LA's driving analogy. I am dreadful driver and tend to get lost. This causes me such anxiety because I am late, I am stressed out, I feel powerless, I am annoyed with myself for making a mistake, etc. I rarely cry and yet I have been brought to near tears over a missed exit on a busy highway. My job requires I travel a lot. I do a few things.

1) I know this is a weakness and I prepare for it. I do this by looking things up, printing maps, allowing for extra time. I try and stay relaxed and just follow the directions, step by step.
2) Just breathe through it. When things go awry (and inevitably they do) I try and breathe. Be calm. Stop and think and figure out how to get where I want to be, instead of cursing myself for getting off track.
3) Ask for help. If I am hopelessly lost, I pull over and ask for directions. Then I try and actually follow them. Sometimes they are bad directions, but usually they are not.
4) Makes amends and move on. Once in a while, I am still late. I call if I can. When I finally arrive, I apologize sincerely and explain I had difficulty finding the place. I do not go on and on. I expect them to understand I am human and make mistakes. If I am late to an event, I try not to feel like the entire night is ruined. The next time, I will be better able to find my way.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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