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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/8/2008 11:51:04 PM   
Briena


Posts: 196
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		Some states have actually made protests at funerals illegal because of them.  Its nice that some states are doing something about it.  I watched something about how one state illegalized the protests after they had protested a dead soldiers funeral.  The father filed a lawsuit and won, the state then passed a law against protesting funerals.  I dont understand why one would have to protest a funeral anyways, I mean the person is already dead.  Its just hateful.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 12:43:14 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

For example many don't like to see people burning our flag on our own soil. The court said they could do it legally. Texas passed a law making the assault of a flag burner a $5 fine. Thats a creative way of solving things.

Indeed. I have never bought the perverse logic by which freedom of "speech" was interpreted to protect actions (alleged to be "symbolic" or otherwise).
 
K.
 
 

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 1:53:27 AM   
ShieldWolf


Posts: 55
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		[/quote]

There are other ways of doing things. For example many don't like to see people burning our flag on our own soil. The court said they could do it legally. Texas passed a law making the assault of a flag burner a $5 fine. Thats a creative way of solving things.
[/quote]

Well that gets you out of criminal court but the resulting litigation in civil court bankrupts you.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 2:32:46 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShieldWolf



There are other ways of doing things. For example many don't like to see people burning our flag on our own soil. The court said they could do it legally. Texas passed a law making the assault of a flag burner a $5 fine. Thats a creative way of solving things.


Well that gets you out of criminal court but the resulting litigation in civil court bankrupts you.


Well i am just a poor working man that doesn't have much worth taking. Besides they would soon find out my ability to inflict is greater than their ability to sue. Can't take it with you and you can get more. Some things are worth more than money or possessions.


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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 6:36:37 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		If you ever get through Topeka drive by their compound (and thats the only thing it could be called).  Its basically most of a city block, fenced in and opens to a common back yard.  Their church is on the corner, also fenced in, and I'm told its virtually only members of the family who attend.  To me that isn't a church, Baptist or otherwise, but more like a cult. 

The odd thing is that this bunch keeps forgetting the part of the Bible where it says  "the greatest of these is to love one another." 

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 8:40:18 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Briena

Some states have actually made protests at funerals illegal because of them.  Its nice that some states are doing something about it.  I watched something about how one state illegalized the protests after they had protested a dead soldiers funeral.  The father filed a lawsuit and won, the state then passed a law against protesting funerals.  I dont understand why one would have to protest a funeral anyways, I mean the person is already dead.  Its just hateful.


There should never be a need to pass a law against it. It's direspectful. They are not concerned about anybody other than themselves.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 8:55:20 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It's good he didn't suffer, or terrible that he did. He did great things in his life or he didn't. He was a Father/Uncle/whatever or he ws not. He is gone now and he doesn't care.

But these broads are crying and this is of course the last place you want to be, and you are the shoulder. You know what I mean. You can't really blow this off because you are family. Then now some assholes are going to start shouting shit at you.

They don't have the fucking common decency to let families bury their dead in peace, what are they ? I can tell you this much, they are not the same kind of creature as I.

T


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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/9/2008 11:23:46 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

they are not the same kind of creature as I.


Don't get me wrong because I fully understand where you are coming from, I cannot fathom being so cruel (while thinking you are rightous) as to shout invective at grieving people.  The scary thing is, you are wrong - they are the same creature as you and I.  We like to comfort ourselves that people like Hitler are monsters but the sad truth is: they are not.  They are human.


God Damn it. 


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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 12:36:34 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		It was nearly 2 (maybe 3?) years ago that the funeral of a fallen Marine was to be held at the church the in-laws attend.  The Westboro folks had stated their intent to appear and the media circus was put into motion. 

I had heard of these kooks some time before that via the Patriot Guard Riders.  They are the group of bikers - and non-bikers - that formed to shield the families of dead soldiers from the hateful acts of this alleged church.  What happens is basically this: The Guard Riders will only attend if requested by a family member.  Once a "mission" is determined the word goes out and the members show up.  There is no revving of the engines; the whole thing is very peaceful and orderly.  Each Rider is given a flag to hold and they form themselves into a line to physically shield the grieving family from the protesters.

At the funeral:
I took the day off work, put on a suit and took the wife and kids.  There were maybe 150 bikers of all stripes: from hard core bad-asses on Harley's to CPA's on Honda's.  All were welcome so long as your heart was with the family of the soldier.  They loved having me - Mr. Normal - with the wife & kids there.  And the kids loved looking at all the shiny motorcycles :)

The group from Westboro amounted to all of 3 people in a rental.  The police asked them to remain about 2 blocks away.  This was done more for their protection than to suppress them in any way ;)

While walking around before the funeral I was interviewed by 4 or 5 news groups, including a reporter for the ABA's law journal.  When asked why I had the kids with me I explained that I wanted them to learn what hate is and how it sometimes hides itself.  And I wanted them to see how complete strangers can come together to support a family when they need it most.

The Westboro group left the site about 45 minutes before the family arrived.  They didn't even have the courage to make their statements.  Not much of a surprise, really.

When word came that the family was arriving, the Guard Riders formed an impressive line.  We all saluted as the hearse and the family drove by.  The only sounds to be heard were from the cars themselves and from the cameras of the newsies.  It was quite a sight, to say the least.

After the funeral, we formed an escort all the way to the cemetery, over an hour's drive away.  At every turn there were people waving and cheering us on.

At the cemetry, we walked over to a pavilion where a Marine guard performed a very moving service.  I had never attended a military funeral before and this one touched me.  The Marines really know how to take care of their own.

Back before the services started, Guard Riders began arriving onsite around 7am.  They all-but took over the street assigned to them.  This was a block full of retirees and the sight was priceless.  About half the Riders are ex-military, many from the 'Nam era.  It was pretty amazing to see these guys swap war stories with guys from WW II and Korea.  I think a lot of new friendships were made that morning. 

The day is etched in my memory.  From the extreme hate of people who call themselves Christians to the love and honor of total strangers. 

I can't imagine the Guard Riders being invited to the funeral for President Elect Obama's grandmother.  No more than I can imagine the Secret Service allowing the Westboro people within a mile of the ceremony.  I suspect the Secret Service works on the "Act 1st, we'll take our chances in court" theory.  And not that I would EVER advocate violence against a group who is merely exercising their right to free speech, but it sure would be a shame if the feds were to somehow find a reason to "detain" them for some period of time.  Like maybe the rest of their natural lives...

~Dave


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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 6:49:26 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		The documentary 'America's Most hated Family' was rerun on British TV last night. Louis Theroux, who specialises in giving oddballs enough rope to hang themselves, was writer and presenter. I knew something of what to expect, both in the subjects and Louis' usual approach.
Theroux managed to reduce the impression to one of a hate filled patriarch who had passed on this furious energy to his daughter. Four of the 13 children the pastor had fathered had become 'lost' or 'gone' meaning that they had left the encampment and abandoned it's teachings.
It appeared to me that this group will not survive another generation. away from the influence of the father and daughter the other family members showed glimpses of what we might term 'normality.'
Enclosed societies can become very unbalanced, which is ever more likely the smaller the group.
I was left thinking they could have their selective literalist beliefs if only they didn't feel a burning need to foist it onto other people. One scene where in retaliation for one of their own being arrested in Sweden, involved them picketing a shop that sold Swedish lawnmowers. Six and seven year olds were part of this and it was telling that they seemed to have little understanding why they were there, despite being indoctrinated from birth.
While freedom of speech is a cover card for any twisted viewpoint, this will continue. There should in my view be a firmer definition of hate crime to include any expression that is solely designed to cause distress, and access to media outlets, telecommunications etc withdrawn for the good of the wider community. The raising of a media shitstorm seemed the only intention. There was no attempt to engage anyone in any of their ideas.
A sad reflection on how human insecurity and rage can warp into a single cause which defies any outside influence, sensible analysis or hope of reasoned development. They will have to die out, much as deluded dinosaurs.
If living in the glare of publicity, however negative, can feed the twisted viewpoints of the obsessed, I see other groups springing up that will deal in the currency of outrage.
The Westboro Baptists are shocking enough. There may be worse to follow.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 6:58:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		What amazes me MA, is that over here where I live the adults would be beaten to a bloody pulp for these antics - by the local hoodlums if no one else - yet in the US with all those guns floating about, they seem to go untouched?

Did you see Louis with the South African nazi leader too? That was a good one! I bet him covering OBL would be a real gem LOL!

E

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:04:04 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Terreblanche managed to be an embarrassment to his own hardcore supporters. Top marks for being 'out there'.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:09:04 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Now that you've seen Louis Theroux's The Most Hated Family In America, you understand that the problem resides in the family members' psychology and dynamics (I suspect that Fred Phelps' daugher has an unresolved Oedipus complex with her father, which has led her to mimic his obsessions in order to seek his love and approval - unfortunately, this has been in turn transmitted to her own children).

It's already bad enough that the insanity has transpired through three generations (I can't remember at this stage whether the grandkids have bred - I hope not, because they're a prolific tribe) and that this has remained unchecked by the authorities, presumably because of the spurious notion that "what goes on behind closed doors has nothing to do with society"; but to top this off, because of the 'free speech at all cost' rhetoric, these people are allowed to spread their insane hatred all over the place. This is where I, like you, argue for a law against hate speech.

Many argue that this is tantamount to censorship. Well, bring on the censorship then.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:18:31 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		The younger women 13 - 25 had all become reconciled to never marrying.
I am somewhat surprised to find that I am a 'fag'. To coin a phrase this must have occurred 'behind my back'.
Any sexual activity outside of marriage (beginning with holding hands) is interpreted as supporting and partaking of fagdom. My mother will be convinced this is why I have not given her grandchildren.
I'm wondering when my dress sense will improve.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:22:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Never mind your dress sense MA - you might want to get some facial reconstruction work done before that; you bear an uncanny resemblance to a lobster right now, and that doesnt go down well in most gay bars I've visited. Well, at least there were no lobsters in any of them anyway.

E

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:25:03 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		I went to one of those and pulled a mussel.
Badum tish aye thang yoe.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:26:06 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I tried to pull a cockle, but then found it was more of a limpit

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:26:23 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman
I'm wondering when my dress sense will improve.


I'm a fag whore: I can help you :-) . Let's book an appointment at Selfridge's with a personal shopper.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:30:26 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Yar, one with huge bazooms, I'm insecure now you see.
I have one word for you LadyE.
Winkle.

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RE: westboro babtist 2 protest obams gram funeral - 11/10/2008 7:37:30 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

What amazes me MA, is that over here where I live the adults would be beaten to a bloody pulp for these antics - by the local hoodlums if no one else - yet in the US with all those guns floating about, they seem to go untouched?

Did you see Louis with the South African nazi leader too? That was a good one! I bet him covering OBL would be a real gem LOL!

E

They did get attacked on a regular basis over here but they are all lawyers and always sued the municiality government where they were attacked so now they get police protection for their protests

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