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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 3:09:07 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

With all the talk of relationships lately and how they work with respect and communication but then I still read talk about a dominant is gonna do as he pleases even if the submissive doesnt like it .....

It's easy to "rule" by decree as a Dominant. The tough part is to have someone obey. While it's true that a Dominant may do whatever they please, but there's nothing that says a submissive/slave has to accept it. Said another way, a submissive/slave may do what they please, but there's nothing that says a Dominant will accept that either.

If there are fundamental changes to the dynamic that were not negotiated, and are not acceptable, a submissive/slave can always refuse them. Of course, that may result in the dissolution of the relationship but there are consequences to all of our actions.

quote:

If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for

1) the submissive

Respect is an elusive creature, and I cannot presume what is and isn't "respectful" to everyone in all relationships. That's a subjective question that can only be answered by the partners in the relationship, and even they may not agree.

quote:

2) the relationship

Same answer as above.

quote:

or 3) even him/herself.

At the risk of sounding redundant, same as above.

quote:

Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?

It may simply be a genuine expression of how a power exchange relationship dynamic works for a particular individual. If it doesn't work for the submissive/slave, they're always free to find someone more compatible.

Really, the issue works both ways. A Dominant can't expect a submissive/slave to conform to their relationship dynamic if it's not consensual for them to do so, and a submissive/slave can't expect a Dominant to conform to a relationship dynamic in which they do not consent. That's why concepts like "compatibility" are more than just pretty words.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 21

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 3:26:36 PM

IrishMist

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I went into a relationship with the knowledge that he had the option to change anything in the relationship, in any way, at any time; without having to notify me first. It was made very clear to me; over and over again, before we moved in with each other that this was the way it would be. If he brought 10 guys home and offered me up to them without any notice...I had two choices....submit or walk out the door. I chose his way

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 22

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 3:33:35 PM

persephonee

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i think by your choice of words you have already answered the question....by using words like imposed and selfish...and without any particulars, i can only assume that your dominant has given a directive that you cant get behind....what happened?

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And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 23

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 4:20:54 PM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
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It depends upon the demand and what my motives....are.

Will it harm her emotionally, mentally, physically and above all...spititually...To violate someone in those areas I will...not.

Its not always about....me, and Lord have mercy on me if I ever think it...is...

Thats just plain ol`e selfishness when/ if... it gets to that....point.

Thx...

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 24

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 4:52:04 PM

agirl

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And in the end, it boils down to why you followed someone in the first place.

MY dom doing what he pleases whether I like it or not is a positive experience, overall.

It's ALL in the spin.

If he consistantly did things that destroyed the hard won trust, I know I'd be peering at the end days of our relationship.

agirl

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 25

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 5:30:28 PM

RainydayNE

Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
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there are always new situations that arise, changes will always happen, in any relationship

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 6:41:46 PM

MadamnX

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Very true: {di'nam'et }adj. [[dynamique,Gr dynamikos , dynamis, power, strength ,dynasthai, to be able]] 1. relating to an object, or objects in motion: opposed to STATIC.

Naturally when W/we speak of dynamics, it's the subjective {moving} experience.

"Shift Happens"
Madamn X

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 27

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 7:55:42 PM

SailingBum

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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I really can't believe a so called adult posed a quesiton like this. What's life with out change? Sheesh every day would be groundhog day. As much as I like the Rolling Stones I don't wnat to listen to the same tune over and over again. Is the OP getting my drift? I have no clue how "corwaredly" fits into this.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 28

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 7:59:44 PM

agirl

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I don't expect my owner to change his personality or the way he deals with things because of 'situations'...good or bad.

Many changes have occured in our relationship but we are still the same people at root.

The point is that 'the dominant doing as he pleases whether the sub likes it or not' can be viewed positively or negatively depending on the relationship.

I see it as natural and expected, I don't have any negative connotations attached to it because MY dom doing what HE pleases has always been in our best interests.

I could surmise and invent until the cows come home about what type of 'new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship', but the words themselves, could mean anything. Nothing has been specified.

agirl

(in reply to RainydayNE)

Post #: 29

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 8:25:29 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?

I'm going to have to say that it really depends on the demand and how it's done. When I entered into my relationship with Val, I didn't realize I was poly. Blame youth, inexperience or whatever you like but I didn't. So, with the best of intentions and knowledge of myself, we came in with the expectation of monogamy. Later I figured out that I'm not. Opps.

So after serious discussion, we changed our relationship to suit the new needs of the people in it. Granted I'm not the dominant but people and their needs do change. Sitting down and figuring out where to go from there isn't selfish but I would call going "well sucks to be you" and moving on selfish. Relationships are built on certain things (we want/don't want kids, will practice a particular religion, you beat me, poly/being exclusive, etc) and when that changes - unless they've already decided what to in case of X, Y, and Z - the relationship has to be redefined. And I'd consider it a good idea to do it anyway even if they already decided what to do.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 30

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 8:27:56 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't expect my owner to change his personality or the way he deals with things because of 'situations'...good or bad.

Many changes have occured in our relationship but we are still the same people at root.

The point is that 'the dominant doing as he pleases whether the sub likes it or not' can be viewed positively or negatively depending on the relationship.

agirl

If I may say bullshit to the unbolded text. FYI you life experiences determines who you are so you are constanly changing. If may be in a small way or a mind blowing exp ie a marriage, divorce, death of a close freind any number of factors. The point being your not the same person you were 5 mins ago wheather you realize it or not is a different story.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 8:52:22 PM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't expect my owner to change his personality or the way he deals with things because of 'situations'...good or bad.

Many changes have occured in our relationship but we are still the same people at root.

The point is that 'the dominant doing as he pleases whether the sub likes it or not' can be viewed positively or negatively depending on the relationship.

agirl

If I may say bullshit to the unbolded text. FYI you life experiences determines who you are so you are constanly changing. If may be in a small way or a mind blowing exp ie a marriage, divorce, death of a close freind any number of factors. The point being your not the same person you were 5 mins ago wheather you realize it or not is a different story.

BadOne

Changing constantly IS a constant, in that case. It depends on what you are looking at specifically and I know myself and M rather well. Having been through some significant 'mind-blowing' experiences, I'm still the same person at root. I've certainly changed my perspective on life over
the years and I have no doubt that'll continue.

I haven't had cause to alter my view on M and the way he deals with me over quite a few years and ditto, him me. There has to be some base that is fairly firm to base anything worthwhile on.

agirl

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 32

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 8:59:01 PM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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It would be nice, maybe, if we could think of and plan for all contingencies but I don’t believe that is possible. Both D’s know me well enough to identify areas where a discussion would facilitate any changes. I know them well enough to feel comfortable that they would honor a request to talk it over if I felt the need.
Some things may require a bit of work on my part to wrap my mind around them. When faced with something new it has become second nature to ask myself several questions;
Will this cause me harm?
Will this harm the relationship?
Does this go beyond the accepted parameters of what I have agreed to in this relationship?
If the answers are “no”, then it is my responsibility to comply whether or not I like it or want it.
Our history together has been one of consistency and trust. I don’t anticipate any overwhelming transformation of personality or expectations, although I suppose it could happen. If one or both of them decided they desired a change in the dynamic I would want them to tell me. Whether it would be good or bad for the relationship is only conjecture at this point.
I would not view it as disrespectful because it simply would be a difference in their needs/wants.
It would only be a problem if they had been less than honest about what they wanted in the beginning. False pretenses are a poor foundation and I would not feel obligated to stick around if they had lied to me.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 33

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:41:13 PM

SailingBum

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

If I may say bullshit to the unbolded text. FYI you life experiences determines who you are so you are constanly changing. If may be in a small way or a mind blowing exp ie a marriage, divorce, death of a close freind any number of factors. The point being your not the same person you were 5 mins ago wheather you realize it or not is a different story.

BadOne

Changing constantly IS a constant, in that case. It depends on what you are looking at specifically and I know myself and M rather well. Having been through some significant 'mind-blowing' experiences, I'm still the same person at root. I've certainly changed my perspective on life over
the years and I have no doubt that'll continue.

We covered that already. "wheather you realize it or not" You agree that life is constanly changing and yet you don't agree that your "root" doesn't evolve as well. That just does not make sense.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:51:52 PM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

We covered that already. "wheather you realize it or not" You agree that life is constanly changing and yet you don't agree that your "root" doesn't evolve as well. That just does not make sense.

BadOne

I understand "root" to be one's core - the "essence" that makes up a person. Sure we evolve and adapt through life, but the basics of who we are tends to remain fairly constant. I've gone through immeasurable change in the last few years, but there are basic parts of me that will likely never change: my silliness, my dorkiness, my passion, my love of music, etc. I understand the nature of this thread to be talking about sudden major changes that were unexpected.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 35

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/7/2008 12:52:11 AM

SailingBum

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

We covered that already. "wheather you realize it or not" You agree that life is constanly changing and yet you don't agree that your "root" doesn't evolve as well. That just does not make sense.

BadOne

I understand "root" to be one's core - the "essence" that makes up a person. Sure we evolve and adapt through life, but the basics of who we are tends to remain fairly constant. I've gone through immeasurable change in the last few years, but there are basic parts of me that will likely never change: my silliness, my dorkiness, my passion, my love of music, etc. I understand the nature of this thread to be talking about sudden major changes that were unexpected.

I get what root means. I don't understand how ppl can agree that life is constantly changing but not their root or otherwise. Major unexpected changes happen all the time. Death, divorce, war, accidents, 911 and you think that has not change you??? You may become more or less silly dorky passionite. ehh some ppl will never get it.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 36

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/7/2008 3:15:12 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

If I may say bullshit to the unbolded text. FYI you life experiences determines who you are so you are constanly changing. If may be in a small way or a mind blowing exp ie a marriage, divorce, death of a close freind any number of factors. The point being your not the same person you were 5 mins ago wheather you realize it or not is a different story.

BadOne

Changing constantly IS a constant, in that case. It depends on what you are looking at specifically and I know myself and M rather well. Having been through some significant 'mind-blowing' experiences, I'm still the same person at root. I've certainly changed my perspective on life over
the years and I have no doubt that'll continue.

We covered that already. "wheather you realize it or not" You agree that life is constanly changing and yet you don't agree that your "root" doesn't evolve as well. That just does not make sense.

BadOne

I think you're on a hiding to nothing with this. Your idea of what makes you you, and my experience of what makes me me is clearly different. Despite changes upon changes, I am more or less the same. My personality hasn't changed radically. You might understand what 'root' means but there's no way we are applying it in the same way.

agirl

edited to add..I have said that it depends what you're looking at specifically. Did you miss that part?

< Message edited by agirl -- 11/7/2008 3:20:24 AM >

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 37

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/7/2008 3:42:42 AM

Motionflipotion

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From the dominant perspective, changes in scenario is discipline in its own right. That and the fact a submissive craves discipline, does both the servant and Master service. So in turn when a leader thinks for the rest of the pack, a certain narcissism is a greater good and may not be good to question.
That is how he respects himself, his sub, and his relationship; by making the correct choices. This can mean many things. Even to the silliest of points.
However, forever changing is in essence, staying the same.
From the sub perspective. I like people who like doing the same thing everyday, because I myself don't. It feels good to be in the security of their company. Though I myself do not make those same decisions.
This all means that if you have a leader, do what they say. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Easy. If you don't agree with the decisions your Master is making, there's the obvious sign that says he isn't in control anymore, or that you are left wanting.
If you were still caught in the moment, you wouldn't view it as a change in dynamic, rather "what we do". Because you would enjoy it enough not to question it.

END

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<Don Flip

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 38

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/7/2008 3:53:10 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Like agirl, I am the same person I was five years ago, or twentyfive years ago. Nothing is going to change my core personality. My moral values are more codified, not less. I am more sure of which things will harm me and have better boundaries.

Him coming home and saying "no more ice cream in this house" is a demand I can live with. Him coming home and demanding things that are violations of my morals or boundaries or will harm me are not demands I can abide. And he already knows that. So if he came home and demanding I allow violations and harm, what he really would be saying is that he wants the relationship to end. In which case I would think a lot less of him for being passive aggressive about it instead of saying it just isn't working for him anymore.

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(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 39

RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/7/2008 3:59:45 AM

JustDarkness

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Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

Nothing is going to change my core personality. My moral values are more codified, not less. I am more sure of which things will harm me and have better boundaries.

Don't you say in this piece of text you learned and adjusted yourself? Beeing dynamic..meaning changed?

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 40

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