Rewarding Failure (Full Version)

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cpK69 -> Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 9:56:33 AM)


Somebody, please explain this to me.
 
I’ve seen this statement a lot lately, and as it pertains to the “bailout/rescue” package; makes no sense to me.
 
Where was the failure?
 
Kim




kittinSol -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:10:13 AM)

"Rewarding failure" is a phrase that's part of a particular brand of capitalistic ideology. It's true that a couple of people on the forum boards are particularly fond of it... they've never failed at anything and so they are angry (a paradoxe you will have to ask them to explain to you).




kdsub -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:14:16 AM)

I'm not sure but I think it refers to bankers that used poor business practises and still will receive public money in the bailout.

Butch




cpK69 -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:25:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm not sure but I think it refers to bankers that used poor business practises and still will receive public money in the bailout.

Butch


Am I correct in thinking, if your thought is accurate, then it assumes the goal of those bankers, was to run a sound business?
 
Kim




kdsub -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:29:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm not sure but I think it refers to bankers that used poor business practises and still will receive public money in the bailout.

Butch


Am I correct in thinking, if your thought is accurate, then it assumes the goal of those bankers, was to run a sound business?
 
Kim

No I believe the goal was to loan money to people they knew could not pay... then after they drained them of all their money they would take back the property and do it again...pure greed... but when the bottom fell out of the housing market they were in trouble and we are bailing them out despite their greed.

Butch




cpK69 -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:35:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No I believe the goal was to loan money to people they knew could not pay... then after they drained them of all their money they would take back the property and do it again...pure greed... but when the bottom fell out of the housing market they were in trouble and we are bailing them out despite their greed.

Butch



That's what I thought it was about; a reward for the success of greed.
 
Kim




Musicmystery -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 10:39:10 AM)

Ha! It was a set-up.

Anyone else see that one coming from miles away?




kdsub -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 11:25:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No I believe the goal was to loan money to people they knew could not pay... then after they drained them of all their money they would take back the property and do it again...pure greed... but when the bottom fell out of the housing market they were in trouble and we are bailing them out despite their greed.

Butch



That's what I thought it was about; a reward for the success of greed.
 
Kim


Sure was... a reward from the greedy to the greedy...They know which side to butter.

Butch




popeye1250 -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 11:35:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


Somebody, please explain this to me.
 
I’ve seen this statement a lot lately, and as it pertains to the “bailout/rescue” package; makes no sense to me.
 
Where was the failure?
 
Kim


Well, it seems that the (our) govt wants to bail out all the "smart people" with "degrees" who made terrible judgments in finance so that these *same* "smart people" with "degrees" can do it again!
The American People seem to be saying; "no more "smart people" with "degrees" in charge anymore with *our* money!"

I think that's it in a nutshell.




SteelofUtah -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:02:22 PM)

See and I thought it was about companies who gave morgages to people who should have NEVER gotten them, Took out Second Morgages on homes to pay Payroll on Small Businesses that were only existing due to a major freak upturn in the housing market. Then banks took out loans on the expected payments on these questionable morgages to make new loans that were all based on money that didn't really exist yet because so many people had homes they could never afford to begin with. Rather than letting these questionable morgages and loans ruin the banks that gave them we are bailing them out.

Now the CEO's of these Banks were all given Bonus's on the amount of Paper they were writing in many cases these bonuses were Over 500,000 and if you combined all of these bonuses the totals would be more than 12 BILLION dollars Nation wide and they were allowed to not only keep thier jobs but keep thier bonuses as well.

That to me is the definition of rewarding failure.

Steel




cpK69 -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:14:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

See and I thought it was about companies who gave morgages to people who should have NEVER gotten them,


To get money.
 
quote:

Took out Second Morgages on homes to pay Payroll on Small Businesses that were only existing due to a major freak upturn in the housing market. 


To get money.
 
quote:

Then banks took out loans on the expected payments on these questionable morgages to make new loans that were all based on money that didn't really exist yet because so many people had homes they could never afford to begin with.  


To get money.
 
quote:

  Now the CEO's of these Banks were all given Bonus's on the amount of Paper they were writing in many cases these bonuses were Over 500,000 and if you combined all of these bonuses the totals would be more than 12 BILLION dollars Nation wide and they were allowed to not only keep thier jobs but keep thier bonuses as well.


= more money
 
Failure 0
 
Kim
 
 




Mercnbeth -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:14:46 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Most are focusing on the result and not the cause.

The expectation of being rewarded for failure starts in the formative years. Can't do the work of a 1st grader and without permission from your mommy/daddy the school still rewards you with passing onto the second grade. Can't behave and sit still and listen in class? Have a few drugs, it's not your fault you have ADD disease. Can't hit, pitch, or even walk to first base without your inhaler but want to play baseball? Sure - come on and play and get your trophy reward at the end of the year. Can't pass the minimum required math/English test to qualify for a HS degree? Lower standards are imposed and here's your cap & gown. Can't meet the physical requirement to pass the Fireman's test - lower the bar. Can't meet job standards because you have a deprived racial, gender, or physical handicap - install an AA program. Not every time and not in every case, but why try when you're told from a very young age if you fail you don't have to work harder - its not your fault - and here's the reward to which you are entitled?

Why not then expect that when you buy a house you can't afford that the government should prevent the loan holder from executing foreclosure? Why as the holder of all those bad loans shouldn't you expect the same government to reward your failed lending policies with a bail out? Why not reward a car company who didn't plan for a future where the 'global warming' religion became popular who now can't sell the SUV's they instead designed?

It's not isolated to corporations - they just get the big press. Ironically it's the reward of individuals within the corporation that may finally bring some much needed attention to what has become a common practice in the US. However it will only happen if it is pointed out each and every time its observed. The hypocrisy of selectively assigning the label failure will only rationalize making some rewards of failure okay while others are castigated.

The process of selective labeling, results in complacency and a wondering why work at all if success only results in funding more opportunity for others to fail? Why think outside the box, work to be self sufficient, or expect to incur the consequence for decisions when all around you for all your life failure was encourage through rewards?




slvemike4u -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:45:30 PM)

Merc do you know another tune,this one is played out.Up to now the government has not prevented people from being evicted from their homes,and yet you insist on including this claim in your litany of gripes.Apparently you are a successful man,how did you get so bitter?




Irishknight -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:51:05 PM)

If these businesses were not failing, why did they have to be bailed out at all? That point begates your "no failure" argument. 
However, we are not rewarding failure with the bailout, we are encouraging irresponsibility.  Go ahead and run your business into the ground.  Thre are no consequences.  Uncle Sugar will bail you out and bill it to the people.




SteelofUtah -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:52:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

See and I thought it was about companies who gave morgages to people who should have NEVER gotten them,


To get money.
 
quote:

Took out Second Morgages on homes to pay Payroll on Small Businesses that were only existing due to a major freak upturn in the housing market. 


To get money.
 
quote:

Then banks took out loans on the expected payments on these questionable morgages to make new loans that were all based on money that didn't really exist yet because so many people had homes they could never afford to begin with.  


To get money.
 
quote:

  Now the CEO's of these Banks were all given Bonus's on the amount of Paper they were writing in many cases these bonuses were Over 500,000 and if you combined all of these bonuses the totals would be more than 12 BILLION dollars Nation wide and they were allowed to not only keep thier jobs but keep thier bonuses as well.


= more money
 
Failure 0
 
Kim
 
 


Please forgive the extended quote but I wanted to Illustrate.

THERE WAS NO MONEY!!!!!!! Only PAPER that if they had done thier jobs RIGHT would not have Existed in the first place. Their FAILURE to do thier JOB resulted in YOU AND I and all the rest of America having to Pay off what could never be afforded in the first place because someone wanted Money without Doing thier JOB for it.

The Fact that they have gotten to KEEP this money is the Failure.

They Failed the American People and the Financial Structure that was the Back Bone of this Great Country and the Reward they recieved is "It's Okay to Screw Up, you can keep your home and your car and your lifestyle We will make every american chip in to cover what you never should have had in the first place.

Then People who do not have a Morgage now that it has been discovered how badly they screwed up will now have every late payement they ever had keep them from getting one.

We have Rewarded others Failures and Taught people that you do not have to be acountable for your actions.

How do you NOT see this as a Failure? My UM who is almost 2 years old is now accountable for $2,300.00 of that debt and by the time the automotive bailout passes .... and it will..... he will be responsible for nearly $4,000.00 of that. Actually that is EVERY ONES Portion because WE are paying the Bailout. The Tax Payers are. So how is the bailout NOT rewarding Failure?

Steel




MadRabbit -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:53:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Most are focusing on the result and not the cause.

The expectation of being rewarded for failure starts in the formative years. Can't do the work of a 1st grader and without permission from your mommy/daddy the school still rewards you with passing onto the second grade. Can't behave and sit still and listen in class? Have a few drugs, it's not your fault you have ADD disease. Can't hit, pitch, or even walk to first base without your inhaler but want to play baseball? Sure - come on and play and get your trophy reward at the end of the year. Can't pass the minimum required math/English test to qualify for a HS degree? Lower standards are imposed and here's your cap & gown. Can't meet the physical requirement to pass the Fireman's test - lower the bar. Can't meet job standards because you have a deprived racial, gender, or physical handicap - install an AA program. Not every time and not in every case, but why try when you're told from a very young age if you fail you don't have to work harder - its not your fault - and here's the reward to which you are entitled?

Why not then expect that when you buy a house you can't afford that the government should prevent the loan holder from executing foreclosure? Why as the holder of all those bad loans shouldn't you expect the same government to reward your failed lending policies with a bail out? Why not reward a car company who didn't plan for a future where the 'global warming' religion became popular who now can't sell the SUV's they instead designed?

It's not isolated to corporations - they just get the big press. Ironically it's the reward of individuals within the corporation that may finally bring some much needed attention to what has become a common practice in the US. However it will only happen if it is pointed out each and every time its observed. The hypocrisy of selectively assigning the label failure will only rationalize making some rewards of failure okay while others are castigated.

The process of selective labeling, results in complacency and a wondering why work at all if success only results in funding more opportunity for others to fail? Why think outside the box, work to be self sufficient, or expect to incur the consequence for decisions when all around you for all your life failure was encourage through rewards?


I couldn't agree more, Merc.

You can see the results of a society that rewards failure when people can't manage to coherently write out a small paragraph without a major number of grammar and spelling errors or manage to form a logical argument against another member's viewpoint without reducing to personal attacks, but yet somehow manage to keep an unearned and undeserved air of superiority and arrogance about them as they condescend to other people.




slvemike4u -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:57:04 PM)

Wonder who that last post was directed at? When attacking other poster's could we have a little clarity Wabbit.




MadRabbit -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 12:58:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Wonder who that last post was directed at? When attacking other poster's could we have a little clarity Wabbit.


Don't project your own insecurities with yourself on to me.




slvemike4u -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 1:03:13 PM)

Insecurities...me nah, not in this lifetime and not as long as I have examples such as yourself to make me feel good about myself.




AquaticSub -> RE: Rewarding Failure (11/6/2008 1:03:46 PM)

C'on Merc... leave us ADHD folk out of this... some of us really needed the meds in school, it had a dramatic effect on our ability to do well in class, and got ourselves off it as soon as possible.

*grumbles about stupid overuse of the term and meds giving those who actually need the damn things a bad name*




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