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Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 6:09:19 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		hello everyone

i was shown this article this morning. 

http://www.comcast.net/sports/russakoffrules/14750/hornsbuckburnette/

it makes me really wonder.  i have to commend the coach and school for booting the player for his racist comment, but, still....

what are your thoughts?

tazzy


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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 6:13:53 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		The morality of the story is that some footballers are better off passing a ball, and not talking. At all.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 6:27:20 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		Sad how some are deeming it "voicing opinion", instead of the call for action that it was.
 
Kim

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 6:30:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		why are ball teams allowed a monopolY?  i say let the teams compete- with out being the sole enittiy. let the market decide.

people  are going to use these words- not much I can do about it.  tho- as this guy gets a paycheck for his public persona, so its fair game.   maybe. 

I am hesitant for an online post to amount to anything realife.    so in that regard, I do NOT like it.

tho- maybe thats what screen names are for? duh.

let the cracka take his lumps.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:05:12 AM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		greetings tazzy

i think that, whether or not you, me or anyone else agrees with his sentiments, he's allowed to say what he wants.  it's the law that he's allowed to say what he wants.  i think the fact he was kicked off the football team was absolutely wrong.  i also believe that speaking so would have made his life miserable by the people he associates with.  they should have let his peers take care of it. 

gemmie

PS - i just read one of the comments on that page by littlesexy0811 and i think he/she says it better:

"I have listened to people bash President Bush for the last 8 years and never has it gotten the attention Obama is getting.  Racism goes both ways and I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion and you do not have to share the opinion of that person but the 5th Amendment gives us freedom of speech...." 



< Message edited by justgemmie -- 11/7/2008 7:09:04 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:08:27 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie
i think the fact he was kicked off the football team was absolutely wrong. 


Correct: he should have been kicked in the balls first.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:12:45 AM   
HalfShyHalfWild


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Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

greetings tazzy

i think that, whether or not you, me or anyone else agrees with his sentiments, he's allowed to say what he wants.  it's the law that he's allowed to say what he wants.  i think the fact he was kicked off the football team was absolutely wrong.  i also believe that speaking so would have made his life miserable by the people he associates with.  they should have let his peers take care of it. 

gemmie

PS - i just read one of the comments on that page by littlesexy0811 and i think he/she says it better:

"I have listened to people bash President Bush for the last 8 years and never has it gotten the attention Obama is getting.  Racism goes both ways and I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion and you do not have to share the opinion of that person but the 5th Amendment gives us freedom of speech...." 




It doesn't give us freedom to incite or allude to death threats though.

"All hunters gather up."

The above comment of the player is what I gathered got him in trouble, not so much the racist epithet that accompanied it.

eta: for mistakes


< Message edited by HalfShyHalfWild -- 11/7/2008 7:13:48 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:29:05 AM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		greetings half  :)

ok, this is meant in all seriousness because i truly don't know the answer.  is alluding to a death threat illegal?  i mean, he didn't say "i'm going to kill the president," although by what he said you pretty much knew what he meant.  and it also did not sound to me like an actual threat as opposed to voicing an opinion in extremely poor taste.  so truly, my question is, is that illegal?

well wishes,
gemmie

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:31:28 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		The battles we fight reveal a lot about ourselves. Why did you choose to fight for that particular one?

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:36:25 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		An "unspecified violation of team rules." I wonder what it was.

It would appear that he made a racially oriented comment, and also that he made an implied threat on the President elect. It is against the law to threaten the President. I don't know about the President elect.

His apology, however, was made in re his racial comment, and by implication that is why he was cut from the team.

I understand that some words are offensive to others, or may reflect levels of intelligence and/or maturity that are not particulalry high, but I am not aware that uttering these words is illegal.

Is the first amendment to be perverted to the point that our right to free speech is curtailed at the first offense or insult? I hope not. I expect just about anything uttered offends someone. It doesn't seem a reasonable standard to measure by.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't beieve in it at all."  Noam Chomsky

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:37:20 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I'm going to gingerly step into unknown territory and try to speak intelligently regarding sports. Damn. Here goes,

This isn't the NFL. This is associated with the University of Texas. Meaning that the repercussions of those words could have severe repercussions for UT.  If they want to kick this guy off the team for running his mouth and talking about "gathering up hunters", I think that is a wise, wise business move. There are things that I cannot say because of involvement with a particular organization. Does not mean that I cannot say them. It means that if I wish no repercussions then I opt to leave the organization. Period.

Having said that, I'm with kittensol on this, should have kicked him in the balls first.

As for lilsexy, First Amendment

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:43:50 AM   
HalfShyHalfWild


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

greetings half  :)

ok, this is meant in all seriousness because i truly don't know the answer.  is alluding to a death threat illegal?  i mean, he didn't say "i'm going to kill the president," although by what he said you pretty much knew what he meant.  and it also did not sound to me like an actual threat as opposed to voicing an opinion in extremely poor taste.  so truly, my question is, is that illegal?

well wishes,
gemmie


Hi gemmie,

I really don't know if alluding to death threats is illegal or not. Think the laws get more stringent in this area though concerning a President vs a regular citizen.
I think it was  a very stupid and racist comment, and not said in earnest. But the implication seems pretty clear, ugly joke or not.

Either way though, it's not good PR for the team all around and can see why they canned him.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:47:53 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild

Either way though, it's not good PR for the team all around and can see why they canned him.



That arsehole can go and fuck himself: I have not an ounce of sympathy for him. Hopefully this shameful experience will make an intelligent man of him (though I'm not betting on it).

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:51:38 AM   
HalfShyHalfWild


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild

Either way though, it's not good PR for the team all around and can see why they canned him.



That arsehole can go and fuck himself: I have not an ounce of sympathy for him. Hopefully this shameful experience will make an intelligent man of him (though I'm not betting on it).


No doubt.  If people want to go around saying dumb crap, knock themselves out, but also be prepared for the potential fall out. Free speech doesn't mean free pass with no consequences.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:53:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'd say it was verging on hate crime. More importantly, the team rules prohibit things like this, he knew it and did it anyway. If he stole a case of pens from the team and was canned for that, it would be equally valid. You don't want to do the time, then don't do the crime.

Everybody monitors the social networking sites, schools, employers etc. You have to be pretty stupid to ignore that and then be surprised when you are caught.

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:53:36 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild

Free speech doesn't mean free pass with no consequences.



I couldn't agree more: there is a large number of people, however, who believe just that. Scary...

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 11/7/2008 7:54:00 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 7:58:07 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Why do we continue to bring up this terrible word?  The only way we can change is to change ourselves.
We have the opportunity to do it now.  Let's do it.
Respect and freedom for everyone.
 
Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:00:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

"I have listened to people bash President Bush for the last 8 years and never has it gotten the attention Obama is getting.  Racism goes both ways and I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion and you do not have to share the opinion of that person but the 5th Amendment gives us freedom of speech...." 


Just a few factual corrections---

Bashing Bush is not racism unless people attacked him for being white.

The fifth amendment protects the right against self-incrimination. The first amendment protects free speech (and four other rights).

Also, Bush came into office under a legal cloud. People pulled together to support him after 9/11, but he made a huge mess of it.

Nor was Bush in anyway singled out. I saw my first "Impeach Clinton" bumper sticker three days after he was elected.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/7/2008 8:02:54 AM >

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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:05:08 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

i think the fact he was kicked off the football team was absolutely wrong.

Whether a person has or ought to have the right to make racial statements is immaterial.  Football scholarships are contingent on, among other things, adhering to certain standards of behavior.

There is no free speech issue here.  He broke the rules which he agreed to respect, and experienced the predictable consequence.


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RE: Times are changing? - 11/7/2008 8:28:31 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		You have not listened to people Bash President Bush for eight years.  It started the last two when he stole our money and dignity.  I hate that man just like a lot of people hated President Clinton.
At least President Clinton stuck a cigar up a girls arse rather than cause financial destress to us all except himself.
 
Feel better now.
 
Regards, MissSCD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

"I have listened to people bash President Bush for the last 8 years and never has it gotten the attention Obama is getting.  Racism goes both ways and I think everyone is allowed to have an opinion and you do not have to share the opinion of that person but the 5th Amendment gives us freedom of speech...." 


Just a few factual corrections---

Bashing Bush is not racism unless people attacked him for being white.

The fifth amendment protects the right against self-incrimination. The first amendment protects free speech (and four other rights).

Also, Bush came into office under a legal cloud. People pulled together to support him after 9/11, but he made a huge mess of it.

Nor was Bush in anyway singled out. I saw my first "Impeach Clinton" bumper sticker three days after he was elected.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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