"Inclusionism" Bullshit (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:19:12 AM)

Since Tuesday the warm fuzzy feeling about PE Obama's election has generated a bunch of nonsense about the time being right for all of us to come together.

It's not limited to one side or the other but seems most disingenuous coming from many here on CM who've spent the last few years calling President Bush and/or the Republican party any nasty thing their limited mental abilities could conceive, wishing death not only to come, but to come painfully. Now they find it appropriate for the University of Texas to boot a player off the team for speaking his mind. Bush's actions as President were and are reprehensible, but he is still President and 'inclusionism' requires that acceptance of that programmatic fact the same way it's expected when Obama takes office. But that's not the case.

No - inclusionism,  especially by not exclusively to the left, is defined by agreement with them, and their 'principles' no matter how hypocritical they are in the face of side by side comparison. The most flagrant example is Prop 8 in CA. The vote came in resulting in overturning the activist court decision. The vote represented a defeat for 'inclusionism' of same sex marriage by the majority who voted Tuesday; but it was a vote conducted in the same manner that the Democratic majority in both houses was determined in Congress but because it wasn't the 'right' decision as seen by the left - the result is not accepted. Winning doesn't make it right, challenges are appropriate, but where is the 'inclusionism' of the democratic will of the voter of CA? Oh - yeah, its not 'right' and it's not 'PC' and it goes in the face of 'fair' and 'good intent'. So votes don't matter - yeah, that's the brand of inclusionism exclusively I see being sold. Agree with us or we'll insult, denigrate, disrespect, and, if possible, make your idea of freedom and liberty illegal or inaccessible.

Why else would a call to reimplemented the 'Fairness Doctrine' be considered a 'good' thing? How is it that killing a person is made worse or become a 'hate crime' when the perpetrator is not the same race? Well at least if he's a lighter race than the victim. Whether we point to the UT player, or the attempts to remove Senator Leiberman from his Committee chairmanship - there is no action behind the empty word inclusionism. Change? Here's the change; a different group now is in charge of and has the ability to to execute their version of "It's our way or the highway".

There's not a damn thing wrong with that either. "Go for it!"; I say, and enjoy your power. Relish in your conquest and do your best to get your way implemented as quickly and for as long as you can convince the masses that you have their best interests in mind. You don't - you have your best interests in mind like any other party in power; just don't waste my time with inclusionism propaganda in the face of actions, policy, and philosophy that only includes those capable of head bobbing agreement. 

I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything. If an argument or debate point can't convince me, guilt about being on the outside of the 'in crowd' won't do it either. Winning doesn't make it right, but change comes from convincing not demanding and not through insult or strong arm tactics.

'Inclusionism' is the new buzzword for 'politically correct' and just as meaningless and just as hypocritical coming from the majority. Their ability to rationalize their hypocrisy fully considered. 




kittinSol -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:34:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything.


Not a problem, especially since this ghost of 'inclusionism' is very much one you have created yourself. It looks like you just wanted a reason to rant because you're bitter about Obama's election.

Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

Enjoy the ride: at least this time, you have someone worthy of respect as your Lord and Master [8D].




missturbation -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:41:40 AM)

quote:

Since Tuesday the warm fuzzy feeling about PE Obama's election has generated a bunch of nonsense about the time being right for all of us to come together.


Funnily enough i was watching 'loose women' in the early hours of this morning, (a female based chat show) and i saw this opinion repeatedly. How the world is about to come together and be a totally different place. I call bull shit on this.
 
quote:

Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

Enjoy the ride: at least this time, you have someone worthy of respect as your Lord and Master [8D].


Now now i'd be careful about making this kind of claim. Chances are in my opinion that Obama will probably turn out to be just as dissappointing as any other president / prime minister has been.





Musicmystery -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:44:52 AM)

I'm not seeing this call for inclusionism drive you're talking about.

You do seem angry about the outcome of the election, and that seems the true point of your post.




Owner59 -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:51:02 AM)

 
Everyone is responsible(in some way,big or small)for what they do/say.

A couple of high rankers got booted from the military for dissing President Clinton.Boy were they surprised to find out that they just couldn`t say anything,anywhere to anybody.

There`s no free ride and no one`s keeping score.

Ask Bill Mahr and Phil Donahue about the fairness of getting fired for speaking their minds.

Question Merc,maybe you can answer it,being an outsider and all(or pretending to be).

Why is every right-wing talkshow host (simultaneously)talking about/fearing the"Fairness Doctrine"?

It`s like a big monster`s coming to get them or something.

What are they so afraid of?

Note.There`s no such thing as the "fairness doctrine",btw.(never was)

In years past,most networks allowed the/an apposing side a chance to give an alternate view on a subject.There was no judge determining what was fair or bean counting.

Just a chance for another view to be heard.Ie,more info,wider perspective,alternate ideas.

It wasn`t a law,it was a rule implemented for those seeking licenses to broadcast.A rule conservatives got rid of .




LadyEllen -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:51:45 AM)

If "inclusionsism", at least as I would understand it, is to treat people equitably, regardless of their variance from some notional "ideal", but rather according to their character and deeds then I'd be interested to try to understand the grounds that might be presented for not pursuing such a policy?

If "inclusionism" is a wrong headed doctine, then which people might be excluded exactly and for what reasons?

E




Termyn8or -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:53:14 AM)

"make your idea of freedom and liberty illegal or inaccessible"

That seems to be human nature these days. I can't quite remember the whole saying but it was something like "They came for the Poles, then they came for the Jews (and so forth) and when they came for me there was noone else left". There is another one "We must hang together or we shall surely hang seperately".

So if you are inferring that our PE, or any other elected official is thinking of themselves, think about those who voted for him. These same attitudes exist among the population. Most people voted for what would be the best for themselves, not anyone else. Whether the result is desirable remains to be seen of course.

Years ago you would not catch me dead voting democrat, but after Bush, well to go along with that particular status quo would be ignorant in my opinion. If McCain would have been a better choice, so be it, but he wasn't.

Obama knows how to work the crowd so to speak, of that there is no doubt and to me is not an endearing quality, and we are about to live with it for the next four years. Sit back and enjoy the ride. I, for one will be very interested to see what happens. 

T




Musicmystery -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:55:32 AM)

Ellen,

It's political bullshit on this side of the pond. Legit broadcasts for years have been required to provide "equal time" for opposing political parties, but now (despite their cries) much of the media is in right wing hands, they suddenly find this idea anathema.

And right now they've got nothing of substance to bitch about, so they're blowing this up our skirts.

Short version.




persephonee -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:55:38 AM)

Merc...
My arms are open...if you choose not to step in, thats on you.
Are all the ills of the world cured in this one election? No.
Was a step made?...yes it was.
Historically this was a good day...in a line of truly bad ones. Time will tell if it was as good as it possibly could have been...but im still bitter Hillary didnt make it.[sm=couch.gif]

And btw...everytime i read your posts... and i do read them cuz i adore you sometimes...i still see you ranting and raving in your blonde wig from Vegas.

kisses to beth

perse




kittinSol -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:55:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Chances are in my opinion that Obama will probably turn out to be just as dissappointing as any other president / prime minister has been.



None of us can predict the future, so I find it surprising how easily some people are ready to jump on the idea that Obama will disappoint. I say: "Wait and see."




Mercnbeth -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:58:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything.


Not a problem, especially since this ghost of 'inclusionism' is very much one you have created yourself. It looks like you just wanted a reason to rant because you're bitter about Obama's election.

Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

Enjoy the ride: at least this time, you have someone worthy of respect as your Lord and Master [8D].


And here is the exact and perfect example of the 'nouveau' inclusionists. Not one word addressing any of the issues or even a contrary position regarding them - Instead, a "you are bitter" reference! Not even a cursory "not me" or "that was the old way, but this will be different". Instead, a principled acceptance; how cute and predictable!

I could care less about PE Obama and believe he was the better candidate - but that hijacks my own thread. Better to have the lovely kittin confirm the point. I knew I could count on her!




missturbation -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 8:58:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Chances are in my opinion that Obama will probably turn out to be just as dissappointing as any other president / prime minister has been.



I agree but at least on this side of the coin there is some healthy scepticism being shown. On the flip side of the coin i see a high percentage of people acting as if the messiah has finally returned and that the worlds problems will all be solved with this man. Now that is scarey.

quote:

None of us can predict the future, so I find it surprising how easily some people are ready to jump on the idea that Obama will disappoint. I say: "Wait and see."




MsDonnaMia -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:00:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't need to be nor want to be included in anything.


Not a problem, especially since this ghost of 'inclusionism' is very much one you have created yourself. It looks like you just wanted a reason to rant because you're bitter about Obama's election.

Now, you know how it must have felt for all the people who didn't vote for Bush and who had to suffer with a clown for head of state for two terms.

Enjoy the ride: at least this time, you have someone worthy of respect as your Lord and Master [8D].


*applause*

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the idea of coming together and acting like adults. its not always a slogan of a party line. If Obama turns out to be a lame duck, we'll see that too.




Owner59 -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:04:23 AM)

To be fair,and to provide some context,Merc voted for Bush, twice.

It`s this POV that`s ranting here.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m19.gif[/image]




kittinSol -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:04:46 AM)

Merc, the 'points' you are trying to address are non-existent, so how do you expect others to bemoan this 'inclusionism' stuff with you when you just made it up? I call it 'illusionism' - no matter how much you try to spin it, this thread is about your unhappiness at the outcome of the election.




cjan -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:06:33 AM)

It's ok with me if you want to take your ball and go home, Merc. you can even run with scissors, if ya want.




Mercnbeth -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:07:26 AM)

quote:

Question Merc,maybe you can answer it,being an outsider and all(or pretending to be).

Why is every right-wing talk-show host (simultaneously)talking about/fearing the"Fairness Doctrine"?

It`s like a big monster`s coming to get them or something.

What are they so afraid of?

Owner, I don't know if I'm an "outsider" - I AM a pragmatist.

Regarding the talking heads currently dominating talk radio; can't speak for them. My position is consistent. Anytime any freedom is reduced or a democratic process overturned by an activist court I'm against it. That goes to smoking, which I don't do; to talk radio which I sometimes listen.

My question to you, is why do you support censorship, or at minimum government dictated programing. Does your TV and/or radio not have a dial? Do you, or in many cases did you, not support the sponsors of 'Radio America' or whatever it short lived national left talk radio was called?

There is a "monster". It's accepting a reduction of liberty and freedom even when you aren't in the included group the action is directed. I can't rationalize that. For the very same reason I wish that Prop 8 failed - I'll support and stand behind the result. My vote for President went to someone who got less than 1% of the vote. I'll never refer to him as anything other than MY President and hope, against my belief, that he does accomplish positive results for the county. Yet - that position is perceived as bitter? AMAZING!

I couldn't be more pleased to be EX-cluded from those that feel that way.

PS - Yes Owner, I did vote for Bush twice. Both times faced with the same choices I'd do it again. Why is that an issue now regarding this subject? Is everyone who voted for Bush excluded from the inclusionist group?

quote:

Merc, the 'points' you are trying to address are non-existent,
They are kittin? Lieberman not being attacked? Government dictating the radio waves is not being talked about by the victors? Being delusional part of being 'included'?




Musicmystery -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:10:21 AM)

quote:

Yet - that position is perceived as bitter? AMAZING!


Perhaps your wording and approach could be taken as less than inviting open, reasoned dialogue.

Just an observation.




Owner59 -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:15:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Chances are in my opinion that Obama will probably turn out to be just as dissappointing as any other president / prime minister has been.



None of us can predict the future, so I find it surprising how easily some people are ready to jump on the idea that Obama will disappoint. I say: "Wait and see."


It`s almost as if some wish to be disappointed and hope things go bad(meaning things going bad for the US),kittin.

The guys not even sworn in yet and the freudenschade wishes on Obama and the nation are already flowing.

Sad.




missturbation -> RE: "Inclusionism" Bullshit (11/7/2008 9:20:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Chances are in my opinion that Obama will probably turn out to be just as dissappointing as any other president / prime minister has been.



None of us can predict the future, so I find it surprising how easily some people are ready to jump on the idea that Obama will disappoint. I say: "Wait and see."


It`s almost as if some wish to be disappointed and hope things go bad(meaning things going bad for the US),kittin.

The guys not even sworn in yet and the freudenschade wishes on Obama and the nation are already flowing.

Sad.


Nice dig but completely untrue.
 
I am just scared by the 'all hail the messiah' attitude that seems in abundance.




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