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Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 10:09:46 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		I keep reading this on profiles and the boards.
  • "I realize it is all about the woman and what she wants".
  • "I know that the dominants needs are far more important than mine".
  • "Of course he gets what he wants, he is the dominant" (Said by someone who just met the man that day).
  • "My needs always come second to hers/his"
  • "It doesn't matter how I feel, it is how she/he feels that is all that matters.
  • Yes he/she can. Because it is all about the Master/Mistress.
  • I am the dominant, subs/slaves do as I tell them to, without question.
  • I am a Mistress. Of course my needs come before a submissives/slaves.
  • I am a Master. Of course my needs come before a submissive/slaves.

 
I ask the following question to those who have not collared or been collared yet. Those who are in negotiations or are being considered.
 
This does not apply to those who are an already established dynamic. IMO, once the dynamic has been established, what anyone else thinks about it is moot.
 
 
 
Do any of the statements above apply to you?
 
I have read posts by people who have suggested that we, as dominants are naturally going to get what we want, simply because we are dominants. Yet, on another thread that asks basically the same questions, their answers go against what they have previously posted. Not to pick on the D types, I have also seen inconsistencies in the s type answers as well. So I suppose this post was inspired by the inconsistencies of answers that I have seen here. But interesting, nonetheless.
 
For myself, if I am in negotiations with someone, I do not expect them to treat me in any other way, than what they would do with a friend. I do not expect anything from them, except honesty and openness, which I would expect from any new person I have met. I would no more try to dominate them than I would try to change the color of their skin. We are on equal ground. He has the right and the responsibility to ask as many questions of me as he needs to, in order to feel comfortable with me. I have the same right with regards to asking him questions. Until we have established, to both of our satisfaction that this is what we both want, we are both on equal footing. I am not his Mistress. I am not his Top nor am I his Dominant. I do not require him to call me "Mistress" right from the get-go. I do however ask him to treat me with the same respect that I give to him. If he were to make one of the statements that are in the above bullets, I would correct him. In my opinion, I have not earned the right to be any more special to him than any one else has.
 
Your thoughts?

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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 10:11:09 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		For me it depends on how the relation grows. In the base we will be equal....as a start though.

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Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 10:13:25 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		You missed the ever popluar "it's not about him/her...it's about ME"

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Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 10:20:33 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		lol yes..that one should be added

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 10:26:52 AM   
eri


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

I keep reading this on profiles and the boards.
  • "I realize it is all about the woman and what she wants".
  • "I know that the dominants needs are far more important than mine".
  • "Of course he gets what he wants, he is the dominant" (Said by someone who just met the man that day).
  • "My needs always come second to hers/his"
  • "It doesn't matter how I feel, it is how she/he feels that is all that matters.
  • Yes he/she can. Because it is all about the Master/Mistress.
  • I am the dominant, subs/slaves do as I tell them to, without question.
  • I am a Mistress. Of course my needs come before a submissives/slaves.
  • I am a Master. Of course my needs come before a submissive/slaves.

 
I ask the following question to those who have not collared or been collared yet. Those who are in negotiations or are being considered.
 
This does not apply to those who are an already established dynamic. IMO, once the dynamic has been established, what anyone else thinks about it is moot.
 
 
 
Do any of the statements above apply to you?


I want to say no but I would be lying. I do not feel that the above statements -should- apply to submissives who are not in relationships and yet I know that I often adhere to those statements, putting others' wants and needs so far above my own that I will outright neglect myself in an effort to be a "good submissive".

quote:


Your thoughts?


It isn't healthy and I shouldn't do it. I do it anyway.

I think a lot of submissives and slaves do that sort of thing. I know a lot of dominants demand it.

A lot of people tend to confuse low self esteem with being submissive or having a submissive nature. They confuse their fear of what other people think with a desire to please other people and label themselves as being submissive and then run around trying to submit to EVERYONE.

I have to make a concious effort to sort out when I am actually behaving a certain way because its part of a D/s dynamic and when it is simply me acting out due to feelings of low self-esteem or being afraid of what others might think of me and I know if I struggle with that, others must struggle with it too.

Those are my thoughts.


_____________________________

The artist formerly known as ...

“Women must understand that simply attacking or hating men is just another form of disempowerment. A woman has to realize that when she makes a man crawl it doesn't give her power.” ~ Tori Amos

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:10:57 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

You missed the ever popluar "it's not about him/her...it's about ME"

Are you saying that a submissive/slave would say this?
quote:

"it's not about him/her...it's about ME"

If you are talking about a dominant saying it, I think I pretty much covered that. Just because I didn't put it in the words that you quoted, doesn't mean that it wasn't included.
 
Thanks for responding <s>

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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:14:03 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

You missed the ever popluar "it's not about him/her...it's about ME"


Are you saying that a submissive/slave would say this?


no, Ma'am...i've seen/heard some Dominants say this


_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:16:36 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		To answer your question, no.

If I am just meeting someone, then it is as two human beings, on an equal footing. BUT, if there is the slightest indication that there will be more than friendship, the dynamic will slowly begin evolving also. It is a natural progression. Moreso, if that does not happen, then I probably will not "consider" them.

That does not mean we will not be friends, it simply means we are not feeling the M/s vibe.

There is no switch to flip. It's not a time of getting to know one another then, switch flipped "Okay I've decided I want to own your ass, KNEEL!!!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:19:42 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

I want to say no but I would be lying. I do not feel that the above statements -should- apply to submissives who are not in relationships and yet I know that I often adhere to those statements, putting others' wants and needs so far above my own that I will outright neglect myself in an effort to be a "good submissive".


quote:


Your thoughts?



It isn't healthy and I shouldn't do it. I do it anyway.

I think a lot of submissives and slaves do that sort of thing. I know a lot of dominants demand it.

A lot of people tend to confuse low self esteem with being submissive or having a submissive nature. They confuse their fear of what other people think with a desire to please other people and label themselves as being submissive and then run around trying to submit to EVERYONE.

I have to make a concious effort to sort out when I am actually behaving a certain way because its part of a D/s dynamic and when it is simply me acting out due to feelings of low self-esteem or being afraid of what others might think of me and I know if I struggle with that, others must struggle with it too.

Those are my thoughts.


Eri,
Thank you so much for being so honest. I agree with most of what you say. I do think that the need to submit to someone, anyone, can be very powerful. I also agree that some dominants take advantage of that need. Is it right or wrong? Not for me to say. I am not in any position to judge anyone here. I take notice of things and I think long and hard before I post and give my opinion.
 
Was there a time that I used to think that it was my right to demand obedience from a submissive that wasn't mine? You bet there was. We all start off new, no one has a nifty handbook that they can refer to when in doubt. I was young and I was full of myself. I have grown and I have confidence in myself and my abilities without demanding that a sub do as I tell him to do, except with my own of course <s>



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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:25:21 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

There is no switch to flip. It's not a time of getting to know one another then, switch flipped "Okay I've decided I want to own your ass, KNEEL!!!


You got that absolutely right. One of the problems I had when Geoff and I first met is that we were friends first. I asked if he would consider submitting to me and he said yes, and suddenly, no flip to switch, but let's just say there was a definite adjustment to go through. We are a work in progress, but then again, any relationship is a work in progress, the day it becomes stagnant, it dies.


_____________________________





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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:31:51 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		OK, I know I'm not a part of your designated response set because I already am in a committed relationship, but I still think I can comment on those statements.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those statements is an adversarial statement more suited to two people entering into a ring to clash with each other than two people joining themselves together in a partnership.  For that reason, none of them resonate with me... not now and not in some theoretical future when I am single again.  As far as I'm concerned, it makes no difference whether I was in the early parts of a relationship or the latter parts.  These viewpoints are all the kiss of death insofar as I am concerned for any relationship type that I personally would want.  Anyone who brought these viewpoints to the table, no matter which side of the slash they were speaking to, would be pretty much instantly rejected by me as a possible partner on the grounds of "insufficient relationship skills to achieve the type of relationship I desire".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:40:00 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

OK, I know I'm not a part of your designated response set because I already am in a committed relationship, but I still think I can comment on those statements.


Anyone can answer, I was trying to make it clear that the dominant does not own the submissive and the submissive is not owned during the times of these statements.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those statements is an adversarial statement more suited to two people entering into a ring to clash with each other than two people joining themselves together in a partnership.  For that reason, none of them resonate with me... not now and not in some theoretical future when I am single again.  As far as I'm concerned, it makes no difference whether I was in the early parts of a relationship or the latter parts.  These viewpoints are all the kiss of death insofar as I am concerned for any relationship type that I personally would want.  Anyone who brought these viewpoints to the table, no matter which side of the slash they were speaking to, would be pretty much instantly rejected by me as a possible partner on the grounds of "insufficient relationship skills to achieve the type of relationship I desire".


I agree. I would not instantly reject them, but I would try to correct that way of thinking. It does not apply to me, so I wouldn't want them thinking of me as any more or less than they are.
 
Thanks for responding :)

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:41:44 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm answering anyway.  The reason for doing so is due to the fact that I'm not especially sure the point about the collar applies.

As a Dominant, I have to recognize the needs of a submissive, just as much as I have to recognize My own.  The same is true of wants.  It's My personal opinion that at least some of those needs and wants have to match if two people are going to consider themselves compatible in the first place.   Along with that, I also tend to believe that in most cases, not all of the needs and wants of two people are going to match up completely.  This is especially true of wants, where people might have a higher priority of certain wants, rather than others.

It's been one of My long standing beliefs that needs must be met.  If a person considers love a need in a D/s dynamic, they are not going to be very satisfied if they become involved in a situation where love, or at least the potential for love is not a factor.  That's not a recipe for a successful situation.  Eventually, that person who needs love, and is not getting it, is going to be unfulfilled.  They will be unhappy and that very lack of having that need met, will be the demise of the relationship.

Wants are where this gets a little trickier.  A want is something that a person would like to have, but doesn't have to have.  Again, I feel this is also a compatibility issue.  Some of the wants of both should match up with some of the other's.   As I said in the above, certain wants are more important than others.  My want for something as the Dominant in the dynamic, may not be nearly as high of a priority on My list as a want of My submissive.  To say that My wants are automatically more important, just because I'm on this side of the kneel, I don't feel is realistic.  Instead, as the person with the authority, it's My place to access the wants, and make My decisions based accordingly.  There will be times that I might find that a particular want of My submissive has a higher priority than My own, depending on the situation and the circumstances surrounding it.

So, to answer your question, no, it isn't necessarily about getting what I want.  It's about My sub abiding by My decision when I have come to the conclusion that one want is more important than the other.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:46:41 AM   
softhearted


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

I keep reading this on profiles and the boards.
  • "I realize it is all about the woman and what she wants".
  • "I know that the dominants needs are far more important than mine".
  • "Of course he gets what he wants, he is the dominant" (Said by someone who just met the man that day).
  • "My needs always come second to hers/his"
  • "It doesn't matter how I feel, it is how she/he feels that is all that matters.
  • Yes he/she can. Because it is all about the Master/Mistress.
  • I am the dominant, subs/slaves do as I tell them to, without question.
  • I am a Master. Of course my needs come before a submissive/slaves.

 
I ask the following question to those who have not collared or been collared yet. Those who are in negotiations or are being considered.
 
This does not apply to those who are an already established dynamic. IMO, once the dynamic has been established, what anyone else thinks about it is moot.
 
 
 
Do any of the statements above apply to you?
 
I have read posts by people who have suggested that we, as dominants are naturally going to get what we want, simply because we are dominants. Yet, on another thread that asks basically the same questions, their answers go against what they have previously posted. Not to pick on the D types, I have also seen inconsistencies in the s type answers as well. So I suppose this post was inspired by the inconsistencies of answers that I have seen here. But interesting, nonetheless.
 
 
Your thoughts?


This was him (dominant) and me (submissive) in my first and only D/s relationship. I was ignorant and foolish and bought into the above long before I should have and long after I should have ended it. Worse, I bought into "My needs always come second to his" without realising the potential for serious emotional harm if the dominant in question is an abusive selfish bastard (which he was). Clueless and needy and wanting to explore and try new things can be a dangerous mix without a responsible Master/Mistress.

It's long over, with much introspecting as to how I was so foolish, yet I still find myself afraid of the D/s dynamic. Not because I think every man is like my ex, who is a narcissistic misogynist dressed up in dominant clothing, but because D/s has become associated in my brain with abusive behaviour. And I'm hoping like hell that I can find someone who doesn't subscribe to the dominant part of your list, because I don't want to always come second. Yes, of course I want to please him -- whoever he will be -- because that is part of my nature, but not at great cost to my well-being. (In the end, I'm in theory open to whatever evolves, however, as long as sufficient care is taken.)

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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:56:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My mother used to say that we teach people how to treat us. If we never assert our needs, then no wonder they don't consider us as having any. If we lie down, we should expect to be walked on.

This is especially true of submissives just starting a relationship. We do everything we can for the other person and ignore our own needs. Then six months down the road we realize how unhappy we are, but the dominant is blindsided because we never told them the truth. We teach them to overlook us and they assume we're happy with the status quo and decide we were fakes when we suddenly say we can't go on like that anymore. Whereas neither partner is the bad guy, it was just that the relationship started wrong.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:57:09 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa


  • "I realize it is all about the woman and what she wants".
  • "I know that the dominants needs are far more important than mine".
  • "Of course he gets what he wants, he is the dominant" (Said by someone who just met the man that day).
  • "My needs always come second to hers/his"
  • "It doesn't matter how I feel, it is how she/he feels that is all that matters.
  • Yes he/she can. Because it is all about the Master/Mistress.
  • I am the dominant, subs/slaves do as I tell them to, without question.
  • I am a Mistress. Of course my needs come before a submissives/slaves.
  • I am a Master. Of course my needs come before a submissive/slaves.

 
Your thoughts?


Part of my profile reads.......
I want to be equal.

We share the same intensity. We have this rare chemistry.
We are of a kind.

That is not for starters. That is the distance.


I know and understand that most Dominants just won't get that, some do but not many. What I am actually saying is, behind every great man is a good woman and behind every good woman is a successful man.
I also know and appreciate that all of this is a mind game we play with one another and its a game we are free to leave at any given time. Games are fun, hedonism is real but unless they are combined with every day life which includes intelligent conversation, educated debate and an all round togetherness on an equal footing, then sooner or later something has to give, at least for me.
This is all about compromise is it not? Compromise from the dominant and compromise from the submissive because without that all that is left is hard work. 
I think your absolutely right in getting to know someone first. How else can you work out that complicated mind. We all know that guessing those triggers is a doomed to failure method. Saying that I have been with people for an hour and seen the clues and wanted to pick up on them at that very given moment. The key thing is to know when the time is right and not to go blatantly on and miss it.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/7/2008 11:58:36 AM >

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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 11:58:16 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

I ask the following question to those who have not collared or been collared yet. Those who are in negotiations or are being considered.
 
I'm not currently in a relationship so I guess I get to vote on a technicality.
 
quote:

Do any of the statements above apply to you?
 
Absolutely!  I have said before and will say so again... it really is my way or the highway.  I know what I want, I know what I desire, what makes me happy... and I'm not going to settle for anything less than exactly that.  I am upfront about what I want and expect... and part of what I expect is for a prospective slave to consider that and if she cannot accept it and live *happily* with it, then by all means, beat feet!

quote:

I have read posts by people who have suggested that we, as dominants are naturally going to get what we want, simply because we are dominants. Yet, on another thread that asks basically the same questions, their answers go against what they have previously posted. Not to pick on the D types, I have also seen inconsistencies in the s type answers as well. So I suppose this post was inspired by the inconsistencies of answers that I have seen here. But interesting, nonetheless.
I'm not going to get what I want because I claim to be dominant... I'm going to get what I want because I actually will impose my Will over that of others.
 
quote:

For myself, if I am in negotiations with someone, I do not expect them to treat me in any other way, than what they would do with a friend. I do not expect anything from them, except honesty and openness, which I would expect from any new person I have met.

We are similar in that we both expect honesty and openness... I push for it (because sometimes if I don't, they won't be).  But I don't negotiate.  I don't offer to bend on this, if they'll agree to that.  I don't put bargaining chips on the table, neither do I accept such.  I state what I expect, they either accept it or not.  Accept and stay, refuse and leave... those are the only two options... there is no negotiating.


_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 12:12:09 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		This is something I remain on the fence about.

I've never been in a Ds relationship where the dominant party was commited to me, despite the fact that I, on the other hand, have been committed and given my all.  So, I've been submissive completely to more than one dominant who did not own me, or ultimately "collar" me. 

Sometimes I have regrets about giving all that I was capable of giving knowing that I was still "under consideration" (and god I hate that term).  Sometimes I think that the submission, the level of obedience, the emotional risk taken, and the trust that I give should evolve in congruence to the level of committment and devotion that the dominant invests into the relationship. 

Then other times, it feels like I would regret not giving it my all.  If I give my all and the relationship ends, I can rest easily knowing that I gave it everything I had and that I didn't hold back.  On the other hand, I am capable of feeling resentment later on for a dom who expected me to trust completely, move out of my comfort zone and have a "no-negotiations" level of devotion without any committment on his part.   I came out a relationship like this several months ago, very hurt, and saying that I would never again give it all to someone who was unsure about the direction of the relationship.  I don't know if I'd do that again.  It remains a tough call for me.

Edited for a million and one typos. 

< Message edited by marie2 -- 11/7/2008 12:35:39 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 12:32:36 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Nope never, I know that I am submissive because it is something i want to be, if i didnt i wouldnt do it, i am pretty up front about the fact that my needs though they are differant often from that of the Dominant in terms of what the relationship should be but my NEEDS are equal, they are NEEDS if my needs arent going to be filled and arent considered as important then whats the point in the realtionship. Needs are differant from wants, and I always agree with Steelofutah's model of subs needs Masters needs, Masters wants, subs wants.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Are You Equal? - 11/7/2008 1:01:52 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		No, i do not think i am His equal.
No, i do not need to be His equal.
No, i do not want to be His equal.
 
I am not His equal in anything, my needs are not equal to His, my wants are not equal to His.
And this is how i like it.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 20
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