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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:22:22 PM

Musicmystery

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And Obama is a Constitutional Law specialist.

Just saying.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:31:03 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterVirago

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Despite everything, GWB had a hard administration. I dont think any other President has had to face as many complications in his office as Bush did. 9/11, Katrina, Ike, gas hikes, wall street... the list was endless. i didnt always agree with what he did, i didnt always understand, and sometimes i complained just as bitterly as the rest.

Well, honestly, he made the mess that will become his legacy.

Katrina Ike were opportunities, to really show what he could do. 3 days? it took him to even visit NOLA. Which all would have been handled better had he appointed someone capable to run FEMA, not a buddy who had NO previous qualifying experience.. No one blames him for the the storm or the levy breaking, but the response was horrifying to say the least.

Our economical crisis didn't need 20/20. Reganomics didn't work with Reagan or with Bush sr. Gas hikes, Markets crashing, and the mortage crisis are all the result of laxed corporate regulations and soft money.

He alone is not responsible, he had help from an ineffective, and useless congress. But the buck stops with the top man. If my team doesn't complete the project on time that reflects on my poor leadership and management qualities, ESPECIALLY if i picked the team members.

Good points. But he isn't the type to buck the system. Cronyism and Nepotism are the way washington work. Try bringing in a new face like McCain did and watch what happens. If they don't know you then your no good. Bricks suddenly drop on your head.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:33:39 PM

SilverMark

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"Every law and resolution folks around here bitch about, Congress passed before Bush signed it. Every law and resolution (including the ones that sent troops into Iraq and kept them there.") <-----how does that make one any less culpable than another?.... The exec. branch also presents legislation through those in their party in the Congress....Last I checked although Congress voted for it, GWB made the Iraq decision? and on and on and on.There has been enough blame for them all but, the President is on the hook for more than anyone else due to his expected leadership or in this case, in a lot of ways, his lack of leadership. GWB will make a fine Ex-President....I have no hate for him, but will be glad to see his sorry ass go!....History will not be kind to GWB and he will have to live with it....someday if he does does the right things he'll get his pass and the people will not have the dislike for him that they have now. Look at Jimmy Carter, and although he still feels the need to voice his sometimes unpopular views most people see the goodness in his soul through his work. It was every bit as bad if not worse economically when he left but, he redeemed himself through good deeds and being at heart a wonderful person, GWB will have that chance.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:45:46 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

how does that make one any less culpable than another?

Real simple. Bad laws and bad resolutions can only be the result of Congress. The President has no official capacity to introduce any legislation in either the House or the Senate.

For every ill laid at the feet of President Bush, Congress had the power and presumptive duty to say "Yes" or "No".

If Bush's ideas were so horrible and so patently wrong, why did so many in Congress on both sides of the aisle go along with them? If Bush was so out of control as President, why did the Congress not use their legislative powers to rein him in?

Either Bush was not as bad as many would like to believe, or Congress indulged and even encouraged his excesses. Either way, the branch of our government most directly accountable to the people is not the President, but the Congress.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:53:08 PM

SilverMark

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LOL....but, through his surrogates no legislation CL?....and in his first 6 years who was the majority party? The majority party in Congress if it is the same as the President rarely bucks the Exec. Now you are just dealing with the defacto/ dejour of an administration....and YOU know it!....I don't believe it and you are too smart to believe it yourself!

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:57:30 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

For every ill laid at the feet of President Bush, Congress had the power and presumptive duty to say "Yes" or "No".

If Bush's ideas were so horrible and so patently wrong, why did so many in Congress on both sides of the aisle go along with them? If Bush was so out of control as President, why did the Congress not use their legislative powers to rein him in?

Either Bush was not as bad as many would like to believe, or Congress indulged and even encouraged his excesses. Either way, the branch of our government most directly accountable to the people is not the President, but the Congress.

Do we need to relive this? OK.

For six years Republican majorities rubber stamped the President. To oppose him was "unpatriotic" and would fly against the Republican strategy to build a permanent majority. By 2006, people were fed up enough to show ANY Republican the door---even representatives they LIKED, because they weren't going to send a Republican to Congress. Unfortunately, this mainly purged Congress of moderates, a problem that persists today.

I absolutely agree that Congress should retake it's role as an INDEPENDENT branch of government. It's bad enough that the Supreme Court has become a lap dog.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 3:58:14 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

The majority party in Congress if it is the same as the President rarely bucks the Exec.

So Congress gets a pass because they traditionally fail to do their job?

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 4:49:16 PM

slvemike4u

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Disingenuous at best CL,bullshit at worst.Funny when we are discussing culpability concerning Bush you claim minimal powers invested in the executive.Yet during the run-up to this most recent glorious election you warned all who would listen of the danger inherent in President Elects socialist agenda.Will you please make up your mind.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 4:51:58 PM

FullCircle

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George Bush was a simple man.

Very very very simple.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 4:58:02 PM

Lucylastic

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How lovely to see you again Full:)
Lucy

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 5:00:30 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Disingenuous at best CL,bullshit at worst.Funny when we are discussing culpability concerning Bush you claim minimal powers invested in the executive.Yet during the run-up to this most recent glorious election you warned all who would listen of the danger inherent in President Elects socialist agenda.Will you please make up your mind.

There is no contradiction. Congress has the final accountability on every law that is passed. If Congress adopts the socialist stupidity of the incoming administration, the culpability for the damage that will ensue will belong on the Congress, just as Congress has culpability for bad laws passed during the past eight years.

That being said, the socialist stupidities proposed by the incoming administration are still stupid, and still very much to be opposed.

As I have observed in previous posts, since 1968, the vast majority of Presidential administrations have had to deal with a Congress in the hands of the other party. I submit this is not coincidence, but rather the inevitable response to the reluctance of the majority party of Congress to oppose a President of their own party. Until 2010, when next the American people have a chance to once again divide the government, we are at the mercy of a Congress and Executive of the same party. If united government was a bad idea before, it is a worse idea now.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 5:06:30 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
How lovely to see you again Full:)
Lucy

I'm always around you just have to squint sometimes Lucy.

Thank ye kindly

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 11/8/2008 5:08:06 PM >

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 5:46:17 PM

slvemike4u

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You say "at the mercy of"...others might say in the capable hands of.Time will tell,I for one am filled with optimism,you are full of apprehension.Time will tell.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:23:26 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Time will tell,I for one am filled with optimism,you are full of apprehension.

Government is always a cause for apprehension, and occasionally outright dread.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:29:34 PM

slvemike4u

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Point of view,nothing more.Government has the capacity to do much good when administered wisely,sadly this was not possible during the Bush administration.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:30:29 PM

thornhappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

If Bush's ideas were so horrible and so patently wrong, why did so many in Congress on both sides of the aisle go along with them?

I remember that time, and my God, if you breathed a word about being against the war you were pilloried. Kiss your ass goodbye kind of stuff. Practically called a traitor. How could you object, when they were talking about mushroom clouds? People should've had more huevos and given up their office.

Remember all the freedom fry kerfluffle? And how sovereign nations were condemned for having the nerve to disagree with us ("old Europe"). "You're either with us or against us" was the saying of the day.

That was a terrible time, and I sincerely hope we never see it again.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:30:48 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Government has the capacity to do much good when administered wisely

When has government ever been wise?

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:35:27 PM

slvemike4u

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Well at the risk of tweaking your nose a bit Lincoln was pretty smart...

.Once I stop laughing at the expected response to that one,I shall try to gather more relevant examples.LOL

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:38:51 PM

celticlord2112

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I remember that time, and my God, if you breathed a word about being against the war you were pilloried.

I, too, remember that time, and remember saying at the time that the case for war was not persuasive, and that Bush was acting in haste and sending troops in without a plan for the peace that would follow. I remember writing my congressman and senators repeatedly and urging them to vote against the resolution, and encouraging others to do the same.

No one called me a traitor (at least, not to my face, and what is said behind my back is of no consequence).

Yes, people should have had more courage then, and should have more courage now. There is never a time when principled opposition to the designs of government is a bad idea.

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RE: A few kind words for President Bush - 11/8/2008 6:43:02 PM

celticlord2112

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well at the risk of tweaking your nose a bit Lincoln was pretty smart....Once I stop laughing at the expected response to that one,I shall try to gather more relevant examples.LOL

Lincoln was smart, but was he wise?
Wilson was smart, but was he wise?
FDR was smart, but was he wise?
Kennedy was smart, but was he wise?
Nixon was smart, but was he wise?
Clinton was smart, but was he wise?

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