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The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 1:58:57 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Quite some time ago, I wrote a post on the Ask A Mistress forum which I titled "The Friendship Factor."  It can be found here http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1318331&key=friend%2Csubmissive if you would like to read it in its entirety.  If not, I can solve it up with a quick premise.

The point of the post was to ask other Dominants if they considered what I termed the friendship factor in choosing their submissive.  In other words, if that person wasn't their sub, would they want them as a friend?



Lately, I've been thinking about this the other way around.  For a very long time, I've had a belief that I consider very important.  It isn't enough, in My opinion, that someone wants to submit.  What's more crucial is that they want to submit to Me.

Now, to take that a step further, I have to add another of My personal beliefs.  I am not just a Dominant.  I am a whole person.  Like every other person, I have character traits, a personality, beliefs, ways of doing things, areas of both strengths and weaknesses.  I am a unique individual, just like everyone else.

In combining these two theories of Mine, if someone truly wants to submit to Me, they would have to find something worthwhile about Me.  If they are going to admire Me enough to be submissive to Me, there must be something about Me that meshes with them and allows them to see Me that way.  I would have to be the kind of person that they would want in their life in some capacity.  To bring this back full circle, I would have to be the type of person that they would chose as a friend, if they could ever see Me as their Dominant.  (YMMV, but this is how I see it.)

I realize not everyone's dynamics are the same.  I know not all D/s has friendship involved in it.  However, I'm curious how people feel about this.  I am posing the following questions:

If you did not have the dynamic with the person you are submitting to, would you want that person in your life as your friend?  Do they have qualities that make you want them in your life aside from D/s or M/s?  What was the reason for choosing the response you did?  Is the friendship factor an important consideration for you  when seeking a Dominant.

My thanks in advance to any and all who are willing to participate in this thread.  I hope it will be an interesting discussion.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 2:10:01 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If you did not have the dynamic with the person you are submitting to, would you want that person in your life as your friend?  Do they have qualities that make you want them in your life aside from D/s or M/s?  What was the reason for choosing the response you did?  Is the friendship factor an important consideration for you  when seeking a Dominant.

[/color]


My former master and I did not have a "traditional" type of friendship (subject to interpretation), and because of the nature of our parting, we are unable to be friends now, even though we would both like to. Currently it is simply not possible.

There is a man I am seeing now, with whom I have developed a friendship. In fact, the friendship aspect of this relationship has a stronger leaning than the D/s aspect, which is just fine with me right now. We relate to each other in so many ways, and talk about anything and everything, such that I can't foresee that part ending if the D/s part does, although one can't predict the future. What attracted me to him in this way is the mutuality of our interests. That, and he makes me laugh and laugh...and he appreciates my goofiness/playfulness. There is an openness in the way we relate that I have not experienced before. Time will tell where this goes, but it is certainly enjoyable at the moment.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 3:18:50 PM   
velvetslave


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If you did not have the dynamic with the person you are submitting to, would you want that person in your life as your friend?  Do they have qualities that make you want them in your life aside from D/s or M/s?  What was the reason for choosing the response you did?  Is the friendship factor an important consideration for you  when seeking a Dominant.

My thanks in advance to any and all who are willing to participate in this thread.  I hope it will be an interesting discussion.


We have had a very strong friendship for years.  Long before anything happened between us.  i had always been attracted to Him and never "made a move".  i had always deferred to Him but never really understood why. 

We slowly started talking about those things.  Our "innocent" talking ended up being our "negotiating".  We have been together for a while.  There is no doubt in my mind that, if something were to happen and we were to end our physical and romantic relationship, we would still remain the best of friends.  In my opinion, friendship is the most solid foundation to build a relationship on.

velvetslave

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 3:24:28 PM   
eri


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		I want to be friends first, before there is a D/s element to the relationship. I am not interested in meeting a dominant, I am interested in meeting a man. The fact that he's dominant is just one more reason to be interested in him; right alongside a good sense of humor and a love of dancing.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 3:46:13 PM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline 		sometimes, if not most often, the intimate attraction comes before any bond of friendship; i just assume it will develop as the relationship moves along, or expect the lack of friendship to put a halt in it before long.

i guess that's just finding someone you have interest in and "dating" when it comes down to it, intimate behavior especially regarding sex or what people call "play" has to wait some time for me to become comfortable with them, as well as expecting the relationship to linger.

friends come first to me before the dynamic i suppose, because my relationships are dependent on that factor existing, and because it's not just dominant women i keep myself open to; i don't dismiss chances to see how things might work with "vanilla" women, and i'm still somewhat open to the idea of a "sub-couple".  it's just that interest in them comes first, getting to know someone comes second; at least until i have psychic powers.


< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 11/7/2008 4:09:19 PM >

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 3:57:25 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Friendship means the world to me. It is a top priority. Sir and i were friends before we got involved in Ds. He told me i am the best friend he ever had, and to me that is precious. I do not have a lot of friends, but those i do tend to be friends for life. He is precious to me as well.

oceanwynds

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 4:22:41 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Here too friendship is an essential ingredient of the whole.. in fact I don't think I've ever been in any dynamic, even among the service ones, without it. None of my D/s relationships have ended in any way other than amicably and I still maintain to some degree friendly contact with over half the dommes I have served over the past 22 years. Even where it didn't work out in most cases friendship remains, and I regard these women not much differently as any other of the female friends I know.

In fact Lady Pact I'm going to make a sincere confession here, and that is I'm not really all that much into all this kink and fetish and BDSM stuff. I've been connected with this all through my adult life and yes floggers and hogties and riding crops used to blow my mind when I was in my 20's, and sure I can play along with the best of them, but this isn't what keeps me here or what keeps me going to munches and stuff, because first and foremost it's the friendship and the relationships I form which keep me here - it's the people I know.

Sure life is more beautiful when I'm in some sort of dynamic but you know, I'm not dying because I'm not in a dynamic, I'm not suffering some dreadful calamity because I don't get to play and as perhaps some people who know me will tell you, my issue isn't finding a domme, it's finding the right domme. But you know to find the right domme you have to find the right woman or person, and the longer you spend in this community - as I'm sure you know yourself - the harder it gets to find that someone.

Am I bothered if she's a sadist, if she prefers single tails to canes, or if she's interested in knife play or blood play? No not really. It really is whatever makes her happy, because this is what it's about for me, making her happy for if she's happy then I'm happy. All I'm bothered about primarily is that we can sustain some sort of close friendship and that we can communicate, and being honest these are my two biggest areas of concern when it comes to meeting someone new. I can wait a long time before it goes to D/s, it doesn't even really have to go to D/s, because all that matters is that sustainable friendship and lines of communication.

I make no apologies if what I write here makes me out to be some sort of fake in some people's eyes, but this is how it is, it really is all down to that sustainable friendship and communcation is it those two things alone which serve as the vehicle for all the other necessary components of a D/s or even an M/s dynamic.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 5:11:56 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He's my best friend, my lover, my mentor, my confidante, my partner in crime, the person I laugh and cry with. And I'm his. We wouldn't have it any other way.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 5:22:19 PM   
suessub


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline 		First we were friends, then lovers. After a time, we became wife and husband. Now she is my Mistress and I her slave. As the changes accumulated, it was peeling back another layer in a relationship. It was never replacing what came before.

As we grew from wife and husband to M/s, her main concern has been and continues to be that she doesn't want to loose the friendship we have shared. I always reassure her that that can not happen. She is always my best friend. But now it just takes place with me at her feet and loving to do her bidding.

We still go on 'vanilla' dates to the theater or for dinner, now I just make sure to either walk beside or behind her, never in front.

From this vantage point I can not imagine being submissive to someone not first my friend. I do not know where the trust to submit would come from otherwise. As always, YMMV.

_____________________________

"Cause people often talk about being scared of change
But for me I'm more afraid of things staying the same
Cause the game is never won by standing in any one place for too long "
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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 5:26:23 PM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		What DesFIP said...that sums up me and Daddy to a tee. 

Absolutely I would want to be friends with or without the kink, dynamic, whatever.  If I don't like you as a friend, as a person, I sure as hell aren't going to let you tie me up and beat me.  Nor will I be submitting to you on any level. 

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 6:01:22 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Friendship is #1, without that none of the other could ever happen at least for Me.  

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 6:12:02 PM   
loveandlight87


Posts: 110
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		I would say for me, some of the same qualities that I look for in a friend are the same qualities I look for in a partner and/or Dominant.   So to answer your questions LadyPact:

"If you did not have the dynamic with the person you are submitting to, would you want that person in your life as your friend?"

Absolutely.  He has the qualities that I would look for in a friend.

"Do they have qualities that make you want them in your life aside from D/s or M/s?" 

Again, absolutely. 

"What was the reason for choosing the response you did?" 

I'm not sure I understand this question really. 

"Is the friendship factor an important consideration for you when seeking a Dominant?"

I do not see myself submitting to someone whom I couldn't or wouldn't be friends with outside of a d/s relationship, so yes, it is a very important factor for me.

(in reply to monywildcat)
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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 8:37:07 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I had a relationship where we agreed that even if the D/s aspect of the relationship ended, that our friendship was foundational. 
Generally, when a relationship ends, I do not stay friends with the person but, in this instance, we discussed this numerous times in advance as well as during and appeared in agreement; even discussed it with some of his friends.  The relationship got axed, I had a brief period of pushing him away (Standard and mild, he knew this and called me on it and I promptly apologized and stopped).  Mixed messages from him on continuing the relationship, then he flips out because I maintain the boundary that sans relationship, I won't deal with his wife (She is too great a negative weight in the cost benefit analysis), which I had said unwaveringly since the relationship aspect was ended.  It was the only good part of the relationship ending.  So, he flips out, worse than anything related to my having pushed him away briefly.  I kept telling him I am his friend, open arms, all that good stuff, all true.  I have continued to do so.  Pouf, he's not been in contact.  A shame.  I've not written him off but having repetitiously made that commitment of on-going friendship between us regardless of D/s relationship (Among others that were sorely breached), having abandoned a friend in a time of crisis, etc., my thoughts are not the most positive on his conduct. 
It is absolutely important to me to be friends with someone with whom I am in a partnered relationship though I am not always sure of the efficacy of remaining friends after the fact; that is on a case-by-case basis, though generally the more important the person is to me, the more inclined I am to do the work to stay in their lives and to allow them to remain in mine. 
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 11/7/2008 8:39:19 PM >

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 9:35:17 PM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat

If I don't like you as a friend, as a person, I sure as hell am not going to let you tie me up and beat me.  Nor will I be submitting to you on any level. 


Same goes for me.....won't happen.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
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Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 10:54:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		My owners were never my friends.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/7/2008 11:08:35 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		OP, very good topic.  I can top a sub who is not my friend in any way--I've done that and enjoyed it, at least in the moment.  But a truly rewarding relationship can only be with someone who is a friend too.

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/8/2008 6:37:22 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		As a Domme I got tired of people who respected me for my title but not for who I was.  When I decided to be a slave I asked my Master at one point whether he cared for me as a slave for the things that I did for him, or whether he cared for me as a person.  Who wrote back that he adores the person who happens to have a slavish heart. 

He and I started as friends first.  He came to my aid when I most needed it and has proved himself to be the best friend I've ever had.  That doesn't take away from my submission but makes me willing to give even more to him.  If there were to come a day when our journey would end I have no doubt that we would continue to be friends, even if I couldn't do it right away.  The lines have become so blurred between sexual partner, friend, Master/sub, and every other role that we play in each other's lives that I can't distinguish which is which.  When he brought me cash at the hairdresser's yesterday when my credit card was declined, was he being my friend?  My Master?  My "boyfriend"?  What matters was that he was my hero rescuing me from a bad situation.  (And it was great to see the hairdresser in awe of how fast he showed up to help me.  Talk about a proud moment!)


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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/8/2008 3:00:18 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I've been reading the responses with great interest.  I appreciate everyone who has been taking the time to participate.  From what I'm gathering with most of the replies, many do see it the same as I do.  If a person isn't friend material for other areas of My life, I don't see how that same person would fit for D/s.  The quality of the person they are has to count for something.

To address some quick points.......

Stella, I don't think what you've written in the above makes you fake to be in the lifestyle.  Actually, I think it makes you more real if anything else.  Sure, play is all well and good, but there aer still a lot of other hours in the day.  I don't believe the bonds of intimacy in a dynamic are grown only from extreme forms of BDSM play.  Thank you for your openness on the subject.

Des, I think what you wrote in the above is a beautiful statement in it's simplicity.  It isn't that often that so few words carry so much meaning.

loveandlight, I could have just as easily formed that question to read something to the effect of why did you answer the way you did regarding friendship.

Davankael, I understand what you are saying in your response.  There are times the friendship is worth having, but for other reasons can't be managed.  It's always rather sad when that happens.  I certainly get the "pushing away" thing when we're not sure how to separate the friendship from a dynamic that is over.

LaM, I'm glad you enjoyed the topic, and I was glad to hear someone understand the difference in topping.

chamberqueen, that was very well said.  I enjoyed the comments.


I hope others will still contribute.  My thanks again to all who have up to this point.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/8/2008 3:20:22 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I realize not everyone's dynamics are the same.  I know not all D/s has friendship involved in it.  However, I'm curious how people feel about this.  I am posing the following questions:

If you did not have the dynamic with the person you are submitting to, would you want that person in your life as your friend?

Yes, very much so and in fact he was my friend for years before he owned me.

Do they have qualities that make you want them in your life aside from D/s or M/s? 

Yes, absolutely. Everything that made me like him in the first place. The M/s came as the result of the friendship.

What was the reason for choosing the response you did?  Is the friendship factor an important consideration for you  when seeking a Dominant.

I wouldn't seek a dominant but I might pursue a friendship with someone.

My thanks in advance to any and all who are willing to participate in this thread.  I hope it will be an interesting discussion.

agirl






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RE: The friendship factor from the other side - 11/8/2008 3:59:15 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		We were friends before we agreed to a D/s relationship.  At first, I didn't see much chance of us working out a D/s dynamic but I liked hanging out with him.  If our friendship hadn't developed the way it did, we never would have come together as a D/s pair.  

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