Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Some of you really smart people please explain American democracy to me


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Some of you really smart people please explain American democracy to me Page: <<   < prev  4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 7:50:58 AM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

Two glaring errors.
Not far left by any international definition.
He isn't Muslim.
Nice to see a bit of commited sneering.
Enjoy the next four years. They will probably produce an ulcer.


First, I don't give a fuck about "international definition". I bristle at the words: "redistribution of wealth"
 
Second, he says that he is not muslim but, he had a "slip of the tongue" with George Stephanopolous that makes me wonder if he is being honest.
 
Enjoy the next four years, yourself and bone up on the process of recall elections.

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to MadAxeman)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 8:26:03 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Recall elections? Are you fucking kidding me,the man must take the oath before he can be recalled.As the man said ,enjoy the next four years....I am looking forward to the next 8.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 8:30:49 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406


 
Second. For all the denials and diatribe. I was watching the Stephanopolous show when (then) Sen. Barrack Obama commended Senator McCain for NOT ridiculing his Islamic faith. Stephanopolous quickly corrected him and all was "right with the world, again".
 
Now, before the moans and wails start. I don't care what faith he espouses. I care that he seems (to me) to be HIDING his faith. We only hide what we're ashamed of. So, what is President-elect Obama ashamed of?


Seems to be you are reading an awful lot into a simple slip of the tongue.  Here's the text of the comments:

Washington Times - Obama's verbal slip fuels his critics
Sep 7, 2008 ... has never suggested you have Muslim connections," said Mr. Stephanopoulos,
who repeatedly interrupted Mr. Obama during the interview. ...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/ 

"Let's not play games," he said. "What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."

Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, "Christian faith."

"My Christian faith," Mr. Obama said quickly. "Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either. What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith -- something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time."

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 8:58:51 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm guessing Satyr drives a cab or cuts hair, that's where to accrue the real information.
Have a nice 'bone up' yourself.

_____________________________

Hitman for the Subby Mafia

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 9:01:49 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Enjoy the next four years, yourself and bone up on the process of recall elections.

In our personal lives, and in the lives of nations, when people begin to fear the direction things are going, and see less and less chance of it improving, they become susceptible to grasping at any hope that things are finally changing for the better, a new boyfriend or girlfriend, or in the lives of nations a new leader. And all too often, the higher the hopes the harder the fall.

But the hope for change that was invested in Obama is different in at least one respect. A black man has been elected President of the United States. The hope that represents has been delivered on. The change it signifies is real. It can never be undone, and will never be lost.

I walked away from Obama's acceptance speech feeling that he was sincerely proud of these United States, perhaps more so than he had ever been before. His election proves that in America today, anybody can become President, anybody willing to make the effort and do the work can succeed. That is not the America that he wanted to lead in a different direction. That is the America he wanted to lead us toward.

So, I think that now he may reconsider some of his policies. Because it is axiomatic that, for extremes of poverty and lack of opportunity to be viewed as morally repugnant in a rich society, the first requirement is an economic system capable of creating and maintaining a rich society. And rhetoric aside, he seems an intelligent and practical man.

K.
 
 

 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/9/2008 9:17:05 AM >

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 9:53:54 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I am disappointed for sure, but anger is meaningless without something for me to vent it at. And for me that means a living person or a kitten or something. If anything though I am more angry at the populace for this colossal clusterfuck of a country we live in. We can not agree on anything, we have zero sense of a common purpose. Personally I'd like a government that works alot quicker than what we have now. So call me a fascist. and how can we hold the government to high standards when the ones we have for our fellows have fallen so low.  But whatever, you have your opinion.



You now there are plenty of dictatorships and fascist governments out there. Why not move to one if you think they are a good idea?


And what would be your grand idea to fix things? A dictator was originally a title in Rome for someone given power by the senate in emergencies. When it was over, then the dictator stepped down. Maybe we need a dictatorship while we rewrite the constitution and overhaul and stream line the government. Seems that people who don't like disagreement are thought fascists, trying to drown out dissent. So keep trying to grind out dissent and I'll keep laughing as your thought fascism grows.



My solution is for citizens to start actually acting like citizens in a democratic republic and start active in their government. Until every citizen does that it is a joke to claim democracy as a description for a nation.

I didn't call you a fascist, you said you could be called that and I pointed out there are lots of places you could move to if you like that type of authoritative government. I heard a lot of folks tell gays/lesbians/liberals to move out of the country when they complained about things. I'm just pointing out that works for authoritative folks too.

I actually think no decent American should ever move or denounce their citizenship but fight within the system. However if someone wants to decrease rights and freedoms I and others will also exercise our citizenship to fight them.

FYI: Your Roman analogy doesn't work here because there is no constitutional position like that. Anything like that in the USA would be over turning the Constitution.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 11/9/2008 9:56:57 AM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 10:03:03 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



So, I think that now he may reconsider some of his policies. Because it is axiomatic that, for extremes of poverty and lack of opportunity to be viewed as morally repugnant in a rich society, the first requirement is an economic system capable of creating and maintaining a rich society. And rhetoric aside, he seems an intelligent and practical man.

K.
 
Except that you want to define poverty as strictly a moral issue and dismiss the practical applications of his proposed policies as rhetoric.
 
Much has been said about his spreading the wealth comment.  Unfortunately, much of what has been said was based on politics and hysteria over turning the country socialist when all he was saying was what many economists have been saying for years. 
 
You maintain a rich society with an economic system that benefits everyone.  It doesn't have to mean that everyone is benefitted equally, but when the disparity becomes as great as it has then you have only a small percentage of the population with discretionary income and a large percentage struggling just for necessities.  In a consumer economy that doesn't promote growth and eventually hurts everyone, as I think we are seeing now. 
 
"The most recent findings on income inequality come from the New York Times' analysis of a November, 2006, Internal Revenue Service report on income in 2004. Although overall income has grown by 27% since 1979, 33% of the gains went to the top 1%. Meanwhile, the bottom 60% were making less: about 95 cents for each dollar they made in 1979. The next 20% - those between the 60th and 80th rungs of the income ladder -- made $1.02 for each dollar they earned in 1979. Furthermore, the Times author concludes that only the top 5% made significant gains ($1.53 for each 1979 dollar). Most amazing of all, the top 0.1% -- that's one-tenth of one percent -- had more combined pre-tax income than the poorest 120 million people. "(Johnston, 2006).


 
 

 


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/9/2008 10:05:05 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 10:18:16 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

It doesn't have to mean that everyone is benefitted equally, but when the disparity becomes as great as it has then you have only a small percentage of the population with discretionary income and a large percentage struggling just for necessities. 

Well I agree. And I don't have a problem with doing something about it. We're all Americans, and that makes us "family" in a sense. When it comes to family, I don't call doing the right thing "Socialism". But frankly, I think there would be less disparity in incomes if making more money wasn't penalized by having the government stick its hand deeper into your pocket. To my thinking, a straight flat tax on all income above cost of living would be just as capable of generating the necessary funds, fairer to everybody, and less of a negative pressure on efforts to improve one's situation.
 
K.
 
 
 

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 10:29:34 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

In our personal lives, and in the lives of nations, when people begin to fear the direction things are going, and see less and less chance of it improving, they become susceptible to grasping at any hope that things are finally changing for the better, a new boyfriend or girlfriend, or in the lives of nations a new leader. And all too often, the higher the hopes the harder the fall.

But the hope for change that was invested in Obama is different in at least one respect. A black man has been elected President of the United States. The hope that represents has been delivered on. The change it signifies is real. It can never be undone, and will never be lost.

I walked away from Obama's acceptance speech feeling that he was sincerely proud of these United States, perhaps more so than he had ever been before. His election proves that in America today, anybody can become President, anybody willing to make the effort and do the work can succeed. That is not the America that he wanted to lead in a different direction. That is the America he wanted to lead us toward.

So, I think that now he may reconsider some of his policies. Because it is axiomatic that, for extremes of poverty and lack of opportunity to be viewed as morally repugnant in a rich society, the first requirement is an economic system capable of creating and maintaining a rich society. And rhetoric aside, he seems an intelligent and practical man.

K.
 


Very well said, Kirata.

Thank you.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 11:34:16 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Except that you want to define poverty as strictly a moral issue and dismiss the practical applications of his proposed policies as rhetoric.

Please don't presume to tell me what the fuck I want. I have never, anywhere, defined poverty as "strictly a moral issue".

Sorry I missed catching that in my first response. Heh.
 
K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/9/2008 11:58:56 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 12:41:57 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		My fundie Christian biosister expressed that one of her concerns is that he is a Muslem espousing to be a Christain.

While I have already stated that I do not agree with the idea that one 'shouldn't complain, whine, moan, ect', I do have several issues with this.

One is, she is a Fundie. It seems basic to her religion to not have the right to judge other's religions, beyond what they say they believe. How can she state that someone is not a Christain?

Next was her comment that 'Muslims bombed the World Trade Center'. I said, 'Is this what you are teaching my niece and nephew? This kind of prejudice? When Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building, did you gather your children around the TV and say, 'That man did that because he was a Christain. See what Christanity causes?'

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to MadAxeman)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 2:12:23 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Everybody hates OTHER people's stereotypes. The world lacks mirrors.

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 2:29:57 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Kirata ,your first post was fantastic.I do have one question though,when in a later post you mentioned a preference for a "flat tax"(works for me by the way)do you realise that the rich would actually pay more,if one assumes that the implementation of a flat tax would by necessity mean less tax loopholes the rich traditionally use to avoid paying taxes.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 3:19:47 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Bullshit. No more taking anything you say as serious, if you are just going to make things up as you go.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Second. For all the denials and diatribe. I was watching the Stephanopolous show when (then) Sen. Barrack Obama commended Senator McCain for NOT ridiculing his Islamic faith. Stephanopolous quickly corrected him and all was "right with the world, again". 
 


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 3:31:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Orion,you were taking his earlier post's as serious?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 3:35:37 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Even if someone states something I vehemently disagree with, I will still discuss things with them. So yeah I took them seriously, until now.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Orion,you were taking his earlier post's as serious?


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 3:41:33 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Your mistake...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 4:03:50 PM   
HagiaSophia


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/17/2008
From: St. Petersburg/Tampa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

First, I don't give a fuck about "international definition". I bristle at the words: "redistribution of wealth"
 
Second, he says that he is not muslim but, he had a "slip of the tongue" with George Stephanopolous that makes me wonder if he is being honest.
 
Enjoy the next four years, yourself and bone up on the process of recall elections.


Dear Satyr,

Slips of the tongue often occur - anyone remember Condie's slip when she called Bush "My husband" in a congressional hearing? It happens. But when it comes to the Muslim issue, do you then discount the rhetoric surrounding his many years in Reverend Wright's church? Really it becomes a question of what criteria we use to determine whether or not a person is a legitimate adherent of their professed religion. Should we count McCain as a real Christian given that he was never baptized? Should we discount all Christians because they fail to put gay men to death as Leviticus decrees? Or what about all the Christians who never go to church? How many times a year do you have to go to church, and for how many years, before you get your permanent Christian credentials?

To me, doubting Obama's Christianity seems an awful lot like McCarthyism. Because being raised by white Chrsitian Americans, and spending 20 years attending Christian churches (for which he was slammed) is clearly evidence that he must be a sleeper agent in league with the Communists, I mean, Al-Qaeda. It's so Cold War.

As for redistribution of wealth - every single exchange of goods and capital is a "redistribution of wealth". All taxes are redistributed wealth. We collectively and voluntarily collect taxes and we, the people, spend that money on our military, our interstate infrastucture, and our national pursuits like NASA ( a few asides on national agendas - California has a better stem cell program than the Feds, we have no plans to build a new space shuttle, and China is about to pants us in space). All that redistributed wealth creates jobs. That's how we got out of the Depression, we spent our tax dollars at home. 



_____________________________

Always,

Mistress Sophia

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 4:06:24 PM   
HagiaSophia


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/17/2008
From: St. Petersburg/Tampa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

**Waving to the lovely Sophia**
I enjoy reading your posts, and I hope you will become a regular
and frequent poster!



Why, thank you! I enjoy dropping in when I have time.


_____________________________

Always,

Mistress Sophia

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Some of you really smart people please explain Amer... - 11/9/2008 5:30:29 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Except that you want to define poverty as strictly a moral issue and dismiss the practical applications of his proposed policies as rhetoric.

Please don't presume to tell me what the fuck I want. I have never, anywhere, defined poverty as "strictly a moral issue".

Sorry I missed catching that in my first response. Heh.
 
K.




You know, you really do need to try meditation or start pounding some shots or something to relax you.

Or am I being presumptious again by saying that?

I was responding to what I interpreted you said.

Are you really this thin-skinned that you perceive any disagreement with what you say as a personal attack? 

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 140
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Some of you really smart people please explain American democracy to me Page: <<   < prev  4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109