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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 10:43:41 AM   
GreedyTop


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*snort*




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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 10:45:04 AM   
Aneirin


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Lady E, you could very well be right on that one I feel, although it is this same pal that everyone assumes is gay when he is not. It amuses me to watch gay men come onto him, what it is about him I cannot see, but he must have something that is attractive in his personality. Myself in the things I try, is just me going to extremes to challenge myself as I wish to learn about myself, having missed out on all that in my teens and early twenties.

Perhaps it is homophobia in that I might appear to be of a certain sector of society, but it is he that gets hit on by males, perhaps he thinks if he distances himself, people might not associate his choice of friends with what he secretly  fears he might be. When he does get hit on by men, he doesn't get violent or run away, but graciously says he has a girlfriend. A girlfriend he will be what she wants him to be at detriment to himself, that is where I see self insecurity, he needs to be what others want him to be


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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 10:49:12 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In colder weather I wear Wrangler jeans and Irish sweaters.
In warmer weather I wear LL Bean cargo shorts and golf shirts.
If I were blind I could pull out matching socks, they're all white.
Gets the job done.



No cravat, Popeye? You're missing a trick with the ladies.

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 10:51:53 AM   
LadyEllen


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Its important to understand though - that a gay man thinks another man attractive doesnt make the object of his attention gay too. Although one would have thought that obvious, it would seem many find this a difficult concept. I recently came to the conclusion that the reason I was bullied at school for being gay (which I wasnt and am not - but there's a talking point in itself) might well have been because so many of the lads found me attractive because I looked a bit like a girl and acted quite a lot like a girl. In order to save their own masculinity, ergo it must be me that was gay not them.

Similarly with a guy I met after my transition who found me attractive as a female; he is utterly convinced he must have gay tendencies because I'm not a genetic female. Try to explain to him that since he found me attractive as a female it cannot be so that he has such tendencies and it falls on deaf ears.

E



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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 10:53:39 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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So in summary it is not easy being different but the world is full of different people.
Or is it…it’s not easy being different in a world of different people…or perhaps…it’s not easy being people in a world of different worlds.
Some platitude will cover what it is I’m trying to orate. I tell you what is hard these days is wearing black on ‘must wear pink’ days. Dress down Fridays, I hate those things; if I wanted to wear jeans to work I’d be a country and western singer.


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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 11:15:43 AM   
Termyn8or


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AHA An, the story unfolds. That post indicates that you have been thinking, in third person even. That is good. So now that you mention these things, we have something to go on.

The way I see it you are talking about a very visually oriented person. This manifests itself in different ways. In some it is perfect skin, and they make the effort in that direction. If you are to be their cohort the same will be expected of you even if it means getting a cortisone shot fifteen times a day to get rid of a zit. Well sometimes it is not that extreme.

Then some visually oriented people are not that concerned with skin etc., but with clothing. These are usually the ones who are not quite as good looking. I am not saying ugly because I find it hard to find anyone ugly. Unbecoming facial features do not make someone ugly. While some do need help with their hair or something like that, others are relegated to the term "plain". She's a plain girl. At least it is more polite.

Among the visually oriented, some have some almost religious belief in first impressions, and must always not only look there best, but just right for the occasion. It is a serious thing for them. Back in the early eighties my bosse's Wife got in a car wreck and had a scar about an eightth of an inch long under her lip. That got her fifty grand, and I mean in like 1980. Many people care about form more than function.

Now add that all up about your buddy. If he is indeed visually oriented, he wants a certain look when he goes out in public and pays attention to that matter. What is the intention of this look ?

And indeed, does the result match the real intention ? I don't mean to put him down. If he is repressing desires he is probably miserable. As such, even if he is not the type to excessively share misery, he will find something to complain about. That is human nature.

Whether or not that is true, if you are friends, you might try a different approach, just to find out things. Go out, dress differently, waaaaay differently. Got a tux ? A nice suit ? I am not saying don't be yourself, but being yourself is to find things out so,,,,,,might be worth a shot.

I still would like to know more about what he considers scary. Such is life.

T

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 11:18:29 AM   
UncleNasty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Let me add this because the earlier post came across as male bashing I think?

E


I didn't perceive it as male bashing. I did perceive it as being inaccurate. I find gender based statements are inaccurate more often than accurate.

Most of the women I know are concerned about their looks, dress and appearance. Most of the men are as well. The genders may display or respond to their concerns in different ways but both seem to be concerned.

The only group of people I know of that are consistently unconcerned about this are those that have no choice, usually due to a lack of funds to have much in the way of options, and even a fair amount of them are concerned.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 11:41:12 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In colder weather I wear Wrangler jeans and Irish sweaters.
In warmer weather I wear LL Bean cargo shorts and golf shirts.
If I were blind I could pull out matching socks, they're all white.
Gets the job done.



No cravat, Popeye? You're missing a trick with the ladies.


N.G. I did add to my wardrobe recently!
I drove out to Reno, Nevada a month ago for my Navy Ship's reunion in my new Lincoln. (See pics in profile)
One of my Navy' buddies and his wife and I were walking around and she wanted to look in at this clothing shop.
She saw these "Tommy Bahama" or something like that shirts and said I should try one on so I did and bought it.
It's got palm tree designs on it and it's like an ultra sueade or something, real soft and doesn't wrinkle. And it was very expensive.
So now I can wear that with sun glasses, a cigar, and in the Lincoln I look like one of the "Goombahs" from East Boston going around "collecting."
The chicks down here in S. Carolina love it.
Jasus, I better be carefull, the gay guys will be all over me now!


< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/8/2008 11:44:58 AM >


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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 1:48:14 PM   
Aneirin


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What I found irritating last night was that we had met somone that my pal had gone to primary school with and my pal was nervous and he admitted he did not want to put across that he was a different person now as he was in primary school. My answer to that was, 'what !', primary school is where you are at the age of 5 to 9, how can you be the same as then. Primary school, secondary school, even university is irrelevant, educational institutions are not a measure of how a person is, how can he be scared that he may be different from his past. I probed further and found out that he engages on facebook and the like where those he has connected with, comment on he from when they knew him at school, it seemed to me, he wanted to be that person people remember him as, something I saw as very unhealthy. I ask here because I wish to better understand what is going on, as I do not give up on friends.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 2:09:26 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
Eh, I figure its probably something as ridiculous as all black, long dister jacket or a motorcycle jacket, dark glasses and the like.


Hey!

For the OP-
Sounds like your friend might need to hit up the healthcare system for some anxiety medication, if he's suffering from irrational fears that are compromising his quality of life.


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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 2:57:05 PM   
newlifenewstart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

He wants help, and I will help, but am not that sure how to go about it, has anyone any suggestions on how to deal with this kind of insecurity , as my next metamorphosis in attire he knows about and that he is really uncomfortable with.




Heres a suggestion.... Take him along to a couple of Munches. At least he might meet some people who aren't the sort of narrow minded townie chavs. If that doesn't broaden his horizons you could always slip a bit of Rohypnol in his drink and then he wouldn't care what anyone looked like. Granted he might be unconcious but think of the money he would save.

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 4:48:46 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What I found irritating last night was that we had met somone that my pal had gone to primary school with and my pal was nervous and he admitted he did not want to put across that he was a different person now as he was in primary school. My answer to that was, 'what !', primary school is where you are at the age of 5 to 9, how can you be the same as then. Primary school, secondary school, even university is irrelevant, educational institutions are not a measure of how a person is, how can he be scared that he may be different from his past. I probed further and found out that he engages on facebook and the like where those he has connected with, comment on he from when they knew him at school, it seemed to me, he wanted to be that person people remember him as, something I saw as very unhealthy. I ask here because I wish to better understand what is going on, as I do not give up on friends.


I dont have an asnwer, dearheart, but Iknow what you are saying.. I am CERTAINLY not the same person I was even 5 years ago...

honey, this is IS issue, YOU cannot fix it, he must.


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CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 5:06:56 PM   
Lynnxz


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I dress like this for the most part for the entire month of October, and part of November.

People don't even bat an eye for the most part.. even the random people at walmart. :-/ You should invest in a different friendset if wearing a coat is rubbing him the wrong way.

However, if you wear all black trenchcoats and announce that you are some dark entity, it tends to annoy people to the point of avoiding you. O.o Met someone like that this year... he's awkward to say the least; he runs around showing everyone emo sketches in his notebook and sighing loudly about how horrible his life is. Worst employee ever. 

Is it really your friend being too sensitive, or are you just being awkward?


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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 7:34:52 PM   
Aneirin


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I spoke again with the friend again this evening and fair interrogated him,(but in a nice but sneaky way), on where the problem is, and found out that his school life he was the school dwebe, not only that, but the weirdo, primarily because he took an interest in entomology, he has since become a microbiologist. He also suffered the loss of his father at that time and he a young age, so what was a weird person, became wierder, he retreating within himself more. The result being he was bullied at school and all through his school, by both male and female. To alleviate the bullying, he became subservient to everyone, learned to please others for a quieter life. That false sense of acceptance from others is what he is now, he still thinks he should be how he was known at school. His belief is he was liked, it is that like he believes I threaten because I am a non conforming person in my attire, I am an individual and free thinker. His belief is that if he is seen with me, those that used him in the past would associate me with a weirdo, a place he knows and does not want to go back there, by being with what appears to be a weirdo, he is scared to be labelled such by those of the past.

So it is, I cannot blame him for his experience, he was at school, depressed and suffered because of it, he learned a coping mechanism, though not ideal, saved him from what he believed more harm. It did not occur to him, his use by others might be a lot worse than if he had not cow tailed to others in the quest for peace and some level of acceptance. Bullies, the cowards they are, though it is very wrong, I know they turn attentions elsewhere when someone new who threatens their personal security turns up. Tonight I made him aware of that fact, he now realises his thinking might well be wrong, but I know if he takes that on board and keeps it on board, (which is difficult I know, as when unaware, old habits sneak back), he could make some big improvements with his outlook.

I asked if he was homophobic,and to that he replied no, and as we all know when the alcohol is in, the inhibitions are out, he mentioned some scathes he had not told anyone about, he is comfortable and flattered when a man makes a pass at him, but has searched himself and finds no physical attraction to males. .

But what he seems to stall with, he seeing my logic of the situation, he cannot understand why he is accepting of gays, but still thinks he will feel uncomfortable with my attire, my plans, he will take some getting used to.

So, though I wish to help by offering another angle on his logic, I have told him  I am not going to be deterred, as I please me and it is me to be me. If I bother him, he knows why I am being me, he knows my past, and has been made aware of my past difficulties, so he will just have to get used to it as he knows my attire is not as weird as he thinks people of the past would think.

His way of being, I can accept, I do understand what he has said and it's implications, I cannot blame him for that, but  if he still wishes to socialise with me, he is going to have to work on some of his issues and in public, accept me for who I am . As it is, he has been told, if said assholes from the past turn up and start their ways from the past, and I am there, I will notice and as a friend, friends get defended by friends, it is the way of friends.  (:) )  I daresay our other pal will do the same, as that one is very perceptive and sees things very deep, deeper than I can fathom sometimes.

So, hopefully things might change, perhaps not all at once, but slowly slowly, I can accept that and by that, he is improving himself and his outlook.





< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/8/2008 7:36:10 PM >


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/8/2008 8:03:25 PM   
kdsub


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It sounds to me like he has the problem to work out not you. I'd just go about my life... if he wishes to share in it good otherwise move on with yours and wish him luck.

ps..If I was the other guy I would not want someone butting into my life just because I don't like his clothes. You're over doing it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/8/2008 8:06:45 PM >

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/9/2008 3:45:12 AM   
LadyEllen


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Sounds to me like your mate needs to break out of himself A - realise who he is and learn to love himself.

It also sounds to me like he hasnt done the teenage "getting to know yourself through experimentation" stage - the one where most spend time being this or that until they get a balance; it was the same for me, bullied as I was.

Only he can do this for himself - but I will bet he's envious of your confidence (and fearful)?

E

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/9/2008 5:09:38 AM   
Aneirin


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My confidence comes I suppose from the fact that I am not from around here and this, being open about my interests. The other thing is that has given confidence socially, a place where it was not me to excel, is the fact that I am at art college where my existing skills seem to be worth a lot more and I have found I have the ability to teach other adults in a way the tutors admit they can't. I also repair any tools I find that are broken and have offered to do their P.A.T testing for free, just to make the machines available to use by myself and other students quicker.

My pal has always with his field of work, been a lab technician in schools, I believe he needs to get into a more adult enviroment to learn the social skills needed to deal with adults, not youths. So it is, he has applied to the NHS for lab work.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/9/2008 5:15:36 AM   
MadAxeman


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Have you fixed that chair leg yet?

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/9/2008 5:30:15 AM   
Aneirin


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Yep, a simple job, probably break somewhere else now, as the repair is stronger than the wood, good old epoxy resin. I know why it broke, the wood is dead, the varnish has sealed it in it's dried out state. Before dark gets it back, it is going to have a good soak in wood preservative.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Dressing to scare - 11/9/2008 7:15:18 AM   
MadAxeman


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Always useful to have some in store, just in case the Guinness runs out.

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