RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

subfever -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/8/2008 11:43:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

When NAFTA was in it's infancy, the one man we could have elected who was against was absolutely right about it....yes....H. Ross Perot said it best...."you hear that sucking sound? That's all the jobs being sucked out of this nation!"



I voted for him, but that probably comes as no big surprise.



MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 6:20:12 AM)

Thank you Maya, for such a well written and informative post.
Your post is certainly an editorial, and very eye opening.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 6:39:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I have really mixed feelings on bailing out General Motors.
At this point, I feel the government SHOULD bail out GM.
 
 Newsvine - Meltdown 101: Why automakers might get bailed out

The loss of  2.5 MILLION jobs, in this economy does not make sense to me.
I think that the American auto industry needs to start making very
fuel efficient and inexpensive cars.
I also feel if WE bail out GM, WE should have some "say" in how they operate,
the cars they roll out, and how they "spend" the bailout money.

We are closer to a Depression than many of us realize.
Everybody is getting "bailed out" EXCEPT the American workers!
Bank bailouts, insurance bail outs, housing bail out, Wall street bail outs, now
Car bailouts? The states need bailouts, everyone needs to be bailed out!

How many of us really need fancy cars, with a million features that cost $40,000,
IN THIS ECONOMY?
Why not try to produce {gasp} affordable and reliable AMERICAN made
 cars with a good warranty?  

Maybe this is a chance for CHANGE in how American cars are made?
Maybe we can/could actually start to compete a bit more?

I would like to see the Auto Industries "bailed out" with stipulations that they make
fuel efficient, RELIABLE, well engineered, inexpensive/affordable cars!
Tell me am I dreaming here?
I want to Appointed to a position by President elect Obama, as "Secretary of Creative and Free
Thinking Alternatives".
[;)]
Okay, I am looking for thoughts and IDEAS on the bailouts.
Especially GM, since they need the money soon.[8|]


I think I have an old couch in the basement- that would help them out.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 6:56:11 AM)

Im mad at GM for killing the EV1.

that would have saved them.  but the oil industry killed the car makers.  but both were in cohootz for ages.

I regret NOT voting for Ross Perot.  Ild love to buy back my vote.

To the OP, what are YOU really going to do about it????>  huh???


I routinely wrote congress.  I mean a few times a month.   I have not wrote congress since the bail out.   If so many of us did not matter then why bother.  My brother-in-law advised me when I was angry at the Bear Stearns bail out- to think only about myself.    At the time - I said someone has to let them know. 

But now I see he is right.  Especially since the grid talks at you.  The peon is NOT to talk to the grid.  A good example is phone voice menus.   Even the clerks can not override the computer. YOU ARE A PEON!  (says the grid)  The grid can kiss my ass.

I canceled my tv service a few months ago, and I notice a difference.

WHAT?????????????????????????



rulemylife -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 7:48:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou


I mean, for crying out loud just look at the banks, they got gobs of money from the government, and they are still clamping down on credit, they are hoarding like it is going out of style. There has been little trickle down. But here we go again, wanting to save GM for GMs benefit. Fuck GM. Fuck the Banks. Let people survive on their own merits, and pursue their own ambitions without the burden of propping up blind car companies, and banks.



I supported the bailout because I believed it was necessary.  So far, it's shaping up as a free money giveaway, no strings attached.  This was from USA Today on Friday:

What bailed-out banks spend on lobbying - USATODAY.com
Nineteen banks taking taxpayer money from the Treasury Department have spent
$32.4 million lobbying the federal government during the first nine months of
...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-11-06-lobbying_N.htm
 
The bailout money is being used as an operating fund for "business-as-usual".  The credit market is still tight, mortgage rates are rising, and no help is being offered to the homeowners that helped fund this early Christmas present.
 
Instead, these supposedly "struggling" banks are paying large executive bonuses, corporate events are being funded,  lobbyists remain on the payrolls, and funds are being used to expand their businesses through mergers and acquisitions.
 
Now the automakers are in line for a free handout.  Then it'll be the airlines.    
  



bestbabync -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 8:38:49 AM)

[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m25.gif[/image]i heard a rumor that Daimler sold it's interest in Chrysler because they believed the retirement benefits was going to be Chrysler's downfall.
i do believe in a company taking care of it retirees, but WTF!!!!?  this i do not understand!

then i heard that 1/2 of this bailout money to GM will go to fund retirement accounts.....WTF?  union costs and union benefits.....WTF!
this worries the hell out of me!!!   

then after reading Maya's post i do not support this bailout.     



UncleNasty -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 8:39:20 AM)

Rule,

Bailouts that fund business as usual have been business as usual for a long time. I'm suprised to see people surprised by this.

Uncle Nasty



bestbabync -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 8:50:38 AM)

a friend told me yesterday they read in CNNMoney.com that the 2008 democratic campaigns recieved over $35million in donations from Wallstreet securities and investment funds.  WTF?  [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image]

i think i am gonna be sick![:o]



rulemylife -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:14:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabyn

then i heard that 1/2 of this bailout money to GM will go to fund retirement accounts.....WTF?  union costs and union benefits.....WTF!
this worries the hell out of me!!!   
   


So you believe that it is the fault of of the unions?



MasterG2kTR -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:18:02 AM)

ok...Let's assume GM (which would then be followed by Ford and Chrysler) gets their bailout money. Also assume (correctly) that the government will have no stake in those companies.

The government had then better get off it's ass, stop being a bunch of panty-waisted pussies, and DEMAND some strict measures for their future if they expect to get that money.

1. No bullshit average fleet MPG. ALL cars in the fleet meet the same standards and raise the standards NOW! Let's say a minimum of 25mpg city NOT highway, and all cars to be tested under REAL conditions by an independant public consumer group, not that EPA bullshit.

2. Put at least 25% of the bailout into accelerated development of alternative fuel cars. And ethanol is NOT the way to go!! Hydrogen, CNG, or Electric are best alternatives.

3. Cut ALL top executive wages to the same level of the highest paid laborer until they are solvent again. Eliminate all bonuses too.

4. Produce at least 2 or 3 no frills vehicle models that MOST americans can afford.



rulemylife -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:19:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Rule,

Bailouts that fund business as usual have been business as usual for a long time. I'm suprised to see people surprised by this.

Uncle Nasty


I don't know whether it is surprise.  More like amazement at the arrogance of these companies.



bestbabync -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:21:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabyn

then i heard that 1/2 of this bailout money to GM will go to fund retirement accounts.....WTF?  union costs and union benefits.....WTF!
this worries the hell out of me!!!   
  


So you believe that it is the fault of of the unions?


no i do not know if it is the fault of management, union, workers or consumers.  what i do believe is these companies have mismanaged themselves and i do not want my money thrown out to bad! 



bestbabync -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:23:24 AM)

[sm=applause.gif]



shivermetimbers -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 9:39:47 AM)

On the surface, bailouts seem like a good idea, because of the jobs they could save. However, it's nothing more than a band aid and doesn't fix the real problem, and in the long run will stifle the country more, as the government now starts to get into business.  Any business should succeed or fail based up sound judgement, and providing a quality product, whether that be investing someone's money or building a car.  When you think of the bailout, doesn't anyone consider the banks, insurance companies, etc. that didn't NEED to be bailed out are the ones who are really screwed?  Instead of a stop gap measure, this was a perfect time to take the medicine now and let the market repair itself.  We are only delaying the inevitable.  Businesses, just like people, need to manage their credit much better, and not working on a rob peter to pay paul mentality. 



awmslave -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 10:22:36 AM)

Substancial part of GM and Ford (I do not know exact figures) is financial services (lending money). My suspicion is that the last is the major factor causing trouble to these companies. Car companies produce credit based securities the same way home morgage providers. So, they have sold more cars people can afford and they deserve a break (bancruptcy). Wasteful debt based economy has its limits. Look at Cuba: cars from 1960-s are still in operation. I drive 15 years old cars; no problems. Recently I had 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (QUAD 4 engine) that consumed 1 gallon of gas per 32 miles, better than most cars 20 years later.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 10:49:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

ok...Let's assume GM (which would then be followed by Ford and Chrysler) gets their bailout money. Also assume (correctly) that the government will have no stake in those companies.

The government had then better get off it's ass, stop being a bunch of panty-waisted pussies, and DEMAND some strict measures for their future if they expect to get that money.

1. No bullshit average fleet MPG. ALL cars in the fleet meet the same standards and raise the standards NOW! Let's say a minimum of 25mpg city NOT highway, and all cars to be tested under REAL conditions by an independant public consumer group, not that EPA bullshit.

2. Put at least 25% of the bailout into accelerated development of alternative fuel cars. And ethanol is NOT the way to go!! Hydrogen, CNG, or Electric are best alternatives.

3. Cut ALL top executive wages to the same level of the highest paid laborer until they are solvent again. Eliminate all bonuses too.

4. Produce at least 2 or 3 no frills vehicle models that MOST americans can afford.




funny that no one goes to jail over any of the 2008 bail outs.  and yet if someone robs a bank of say 12k, they do time in prison, a real prison.



SilverMark -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 11:11:57 AM)

I agree with many of the points made in this thread however, GM, Ford and Chrysler's real issue lies in numbers. When people used to retire at 65 and live for 5 years the cost of retirees didn't eat what they made entirely. The health and insurance benefits of those that are retired cannot continue as they have. The UAW is going to have to renegotiate the existing contracts as well as the cuts in retiree benefits. I have no issues with unions, and the UAW of all unions have a fairly clean history especially for a union based in Detroit.The UAW is not the Teamsters of Jimmy Hoffa and the Chicago Outfit. The real remodel of the Domestic auto industry must start with all involved not only the execs and white collar, these aren't the Wall Street types in bonus and salaries. Everyone will have to share the pain. If given the chance to continue to work do you think a person on the factory floor would take $15.00 an hour versus $22.00? Instead of the exec making $300,000.00 could he live on $150,000.00?
The workers at the new Japanese plants and Korean Plants have solid stable jobs and not bad benefits but not what the domestic manufacturing jobs pay. If they are bailed out, these issues should be dealt with or they will have to fail bankruptcy within a few years no matter what the government does.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 11:59:58 AM)

I might have some canned goods that I could donate.   Lemme look. If so, I will bring it when a bring the couch to a nearby location/dealer.



MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/9/2008 4:49:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I might have some canned goods that I could donate.   Lemme look. If so, I will bring it when a bring the couch to a nearby location/dealer.


I am sitting back and waiting for the dealerships to be "bailed out".
I would be a bit shocked if they don't bail them out.



MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 8:52:43 AM)

As I said last week, we are probably going to HAVE to bail out
the auto industry.

I would be surprised if this is the END of the bailouts.

We need to bail out almost the whole country!



Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875