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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 11:08:43 AM   
esherazi


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Low self-image, low self- concept, low self-esteem....Obama. I rather like the conversation.  And I love free speech.

(in reply to awmslave)
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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 11:23:11 AM   
theobserver


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You know, how some can take my first post and twist it to fit their own agendas is ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is that I took the bait.  Hey, like Obama or not, I was relaying my personal feelings on a memory that had stayed with me all my life and how I wanted to move past it.

Here again, is the only question I posed in the original post ...

Ask yourself ... who do you want to be in four years and who do you want your children to be?

I then followed it up with this ...

It 's not about blame, it's about solution. I really want to address those and move forward. We are much more than our past.

Thanks to those who addressed what I actually wrote.

edited for grammar

< Message edited by theobserver -- 11/9/2008 11:25:21 AM >


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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 11:33:28 AM   
bestbabync


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Philo
sorry hard for me to leave religion out of my thoughts and beliefs.  i was raised to believe in God.  i ask that you respect me for that.  just as i respect your choice to leave religion out.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 11:34:29 AM   
theobserver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

in my neighborhood, there are many self-haters who have this mentality.  this guy in particular was boosting how he and a few friends taunted the cops with "you can't touch us ...Obama has our back" - like that's going to to stop the police from arresting them.


It sure as hell is not going to stop the police from arresting him.

However, once again, this is what I mean, there are unsavory folks across the spectrum. Even though you have some knuckleheads where you live, that does not mean it should be applied to everyone. You are black and you don't subscribe to that way of thinking.

The real danger I see, is that as a society we have to move away from monolithic thinking in regards to Black Americans.

Ignorant folks like that guy do not make up the whole. Another example of this continuation to lump up all into one pot is the Prop 8 situation, they took a survey sampling of 270 people, 70% who claimed they would vote yes for the initiative, and then after the fact attributed those responses to 2.6 million Black Californians as being absolute truth.

70% of 270 people claimed before the election that they would vote yes on Prop 8, so that means 2.6 million Black California residents voted and/or feel the same.

What is the logic in that?




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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 12:01:45 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

Philo
sorry hard for me to leave religion out of my thoughts and beliefs.  i was raised to believe in God.  i ask that you respect me for that.  just as i respect your choice to leave religion out.


...absolutely fair enough. i hope you understand i'm making no comment about your beliefs........they're yours to have. All i was trying to point out is that the rhetoric of religion is divisive, and as you'd stated that you wanted the USA to come together perhaps avoiding divisive rhetoric is a good idea.

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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 12:15:35 PM   
bestbabync


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Philo

you may have to just spank me for my failings! 

i am from the folks that believe in a higher power whether that power be God or a tree. 

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"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 12:22:00 PM   
GreedyTop


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not everyone believes in a higher power..  and some of those folks get downright offended when someone tries to imply that a higherpower (or the belief in one) is necessary for the success of any venture, whether it be a quick trip across town, or trying to bail a country out of a tailspin.

just sayin.

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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 12:35:11 PM   
bestbabync


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that is fine and i respect that.  just asking that i be respected as well.

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 1:00:57 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

All i was trying to point out is that the rhetoric of religion is divisive

There is nothing divisive about "I believe"--it is a simple statement of reality for the speaker.

The problem comes in when people say "You must/must not believe...."  That is a statement of oppression, regardless of whom is speaking.

If the Christian cannot speak of Jesus, if the Muslim cannot speak of Allah, if the Jew cannot speak of Yahweh, then conversation and rhetoric are severely diminished.


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 1:05:50 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
There is nothing divisive about "I believe"--it is a simple statement of reality for the speaker.

"I believe that...people  must die as was told by God."
Still ok to say? 
quote:


The problem comes in when people say "You must/must not believe...."  That is a statement of oppression, regardless of whom is speaking.

See above. 

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/9/2008 1:06:47 PM >


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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 1:15:41 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

If the Christian cannot speak of Jesus, if the Muslim cannot speak of Allah, if the Jew cannot speak of Yahweh, then conversation and rhetoric are severely diminished.


Actually, I believe that were this to be implemented then the chances of the nation becoming more unified would be increased greatly.  Less chance of people getting sidetracked by "my god is better than your god" emotions and arguments. 

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 3:56:41 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

There is nothing divisive about "I believe"--it is a simple statement of reality for the speaker.


...well, i could nitpick and suggest inserting the word 'perceived' before the word 'reality', but broadly i agree.......the difficulty arises when we're talking about Faith.....

quote:

The problem comes in when people say "You must/must not believe...."  That is a statement of oppression, regardless of whom is speaking.


...again agreed, essentially you're describing my perception of fundamentalism. i 'believe' (heh) that faith becomes fundamentalism when it seeks to modify other peoples behaviour in the light of someone elses faith.

quote:

If the Christian cannot speak of Jesus, if the Muslim cannot speak of Allah, if the Jew cannot speak of Yahweh, then conversation and rhetoric are severely diminished.


....well, again i more or less agree......but there is a special case. When we start dealing with large numbers of people, then things can get distorted. i think this is why wise people insist on a separation of church and state. It's a question of scale.

i'm sure, as an ex-military type, you're decent at using a map and compass. At very short ranges small errors are pretty insignificent.....at long ranges the same error is very significent. Scale trumps principle.


(edited for a missing / )

< Message edited by philosophy -- 11/9/2008 3:57:15 PM >

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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 4:20:25 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:


"I believe that...people must die as was told by God."
Still ok to say?

Absolutely.

Now, if the speaker intends to implement "God's Will" by causing my death, he can expect a vigorous debate on the point--punctuated, if necessary, by that esteemed diplomat Samuel Colt.


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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 4:25:35 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

It's a question of scale.

Hence my selection of the first person singular.  When rhetorical flourish is laid aside, there is no statement of belief that goes beyond the personal.  Belief itself is a phenomenon of the individual man.  To impart scale to belief is the mistake.

As an aside, this is why the separation of church and state becomes moral imperative, because to do otherwise invariably slips into the realm of "You must/must not believe....."


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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 8:01:09 PM   
MzMia


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What a wonderful post!
Thank you for opening up and sharing a glimpse of
your soul.

I have also been transformed, and I am forever changed.
THIS must be how many felt during the days of Martin Luther King, Jr.


I never thought I would experience these feelings either!!!!

I have also been elated for the past couple of days.
It is unspeakable joy, and I DO UNDERSTAND!!!!!

Thank you so very much, and welcome to the boards, chica!!


< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/9/2008 8:04:51 PM >


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RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 8:06:22 PM   
MissSCD


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First of all, I apolgize for that little punk kid who needed to have his mouth washed with soap.  
Now, I will answer you question.
Obama's victory means so much more to me than most would imagine.   I am thrilled and proud again for the first time in eight years.
I have always been patriotic, but I felt ashamed to be an American the last two years of GWD's presidency. 
Bush robbed and cheated the American people by trying to use a military government to rule the world.  It back fired on him big time.
Best wishes to you.
 
Regards, MissSCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: theobserver

I wanted to share this with you guys. I wrote it to a friend and just felt compelled, in light of all the post election commentary, to share it.

I have been so elated the past few days. I sat in Seattle so overwhelmed with emotion. I don't know if you could understand.

I recall a time when I was very young ...  maybe 7 or 8. I was in this children's restaurant called showbiz pizza place (now Chuck E Cheeses). They had this animatronics show that was state of the art (for the time) and an expansive arcade and ride area.

I was trying to see the animatronics show, so I move closer to the stage in the dining area. It was my birthday and I was so excited ... then a young caucasian boy, about the say age as me, approached. He wanted to get in front of me ... instead of asking me politely he said "move out of the way nigger."

I was so devastated. I remember running to my parents, crying. My whole birthday seemed ruined. I was never able to forget the moment. I kept thinking "what did I do to make him hate me so?"

That has been a vivid memory that has stayed with me until this very moment. Obama's victory is more than just about him. It's about me and what I've felt and endured, what my mother and her mother ... and my great grand mother has endured. It's the feeling that when we are at our lowest moment there is always a shining light ready to lead us out of the darkness.

My mother is the sad result of slavery. I've never bought into the idea of reparations in this era ... at least in the form of forty acres and a mule. I feel that reparations, today, should be distributed in the form of mental health access. What I feel so many people miss is that the psychological effects of slavery and Jim Crow has been passed down from generation to generation and it's caused more than damaging effects on black Americans. The way children are reared and the jaded approach to life can be all attributed to how the older generation views the world.

My mother was raised in households of dysfunction, from an abusive mother who disciplined her children by holding their ears to a stove range (for taking candy out of store), to having a foster parent that was never "there".

These things must be addressed honestly and I feel Obama's ascension to the Presidency is the first step.

I must break the cycle, but I feel so does the rest of America

Ask yourself ... who do you want to be in four years and who do you want your children to be?

It 's not about blame, it's about solution. I really want to address those and move forward. We are much more than our past.

edited for misspellings

- Show quoted text -

(in reply to theobserver)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/9/2008 8:47:49 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It's a question of scale.

Hence my selection of the first person singular.  When rhetorical flourish is laid aside, there is no statement of belief that goes beyond the personal.  Belief itself is a phenomenon of the individual man.  To impart scale to belief is the mistake.

As an aside, this is why the separation of church and state becomes moral imperative, because to do otherwise invariably slips into the realm of "You must/must not believe....."



...broadly agreed, with the following caveat. When an individual attempts to speak to the masses then the scale problem reoccurs, Hitler comes to mind. However, individual to individual is another thing.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/10/2008 12:02:49 AM   
theobserver


Posts: 456
Joined: 8/18/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

First of all, I apolgize for that little punk kid who needed to have his mouth washed with soap.  
Now, I will answer you question.
Obama's victory means so much more to me than most would imagine.   I am thrilled and proud again for the first time in eight years.
I have always been patriotic, but I felt ashamed to be an American the last two years of GWD's presidency. 
Bush robbed and cheated the American people by trying to use a military government to rule the world.  It back fired on him big time.
Best wishes to you.
 
Regards, MissSCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: theobserver

I wanted to share this with you guys. I wrote it to a friend and just felt compelled, in light of all the post election commentary, to share it.

I have been so elated the past few days. I sat in Seattle so overwhelmed with emotion. I don't know if you could understand.

I recall a time when I was very young ...  maybe 7 or 8. I was in this children's restaurant called showbiz pizza place (now Chuck E Cheeses). They had this animatronics show that was state of the art (for the time) and an expansive arcade and ride area.

I was trying to see the animatronics show, so I move closer to the stage in the dining area. It was my birthday and I was so excited ... then a young caucasian boy, about the say age as me, approached. He wanted to get in front of me ... instead of asking me politely he said "move out of the way nigger."

I was so devastated. I remember running to my parents, crying. My whole birthday seemed ruined. I was never able to forget the moment. I kept thinking "what did I do to make him hate me so?"

That has been a vivid memory that has stayed with me until this very moment. Obama's victory is more than just about him. It's about me and what I've felt and endured, what my mother and her mother ... and my great grand mother has endured. It's the feeling that when we are at our lowest moment there is always a shining light ready to lead us out of the darkness.

My mother is the sad result of slavery. I've never bought into the idea of reparations in this era ... at least in the form of forty acres and a mule. I feel that reparations, today, should be distributed in the form of mental health access. What I feel so many people miss is that the psychological effects of slavery and Jim Crow has been passed down from generation to generation and it's caused more than damaging effects on black Americans. The way children are reared and the jaded approach to life can be all attributed to how the older generation views the world.

My mother was raised in households of dysfunction, from an abusive mother who disciplined her children by holding their ears to a stove range (for taking candy out of store), to having a foster parent that was never "there".

These things must be addressed honestly and I feel Obama's ascension to the Presidency is the first step.

I must break the cycle, but I feel so does the rest of America

Ask yourself ... who do you want to be in four years and who do you want your children to be?

It 's not about blame, it's about solution. I really want to address those and move forward. We are much more than our past.

edited for misspellings

- Show quoted text -



Thank you for your comments. We're gonna move on, from the past eight years and make a better America.


_____________________________

It is left up to the reader to decipher & determine this post's validity.


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/10/2008 12:10:24 AM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UmbraDomina


I reside in fear of having my personal property being ruled as against the law for me to own.


I have lived in fear of this for quite some time, in one of the reddest of the red states, and my fear was quite justified as I did actually have quite a few bits of my personal property stolen from me under color of law.  We're probably talking about different pieces of personal property, but I've not found either party to uphold the 4th Amendment with any zealousness.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What Obama's Victory Means To Me - 11/10/2008 12:21:44 AM   
moonvine


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This is really lovely, thanks for sharing:)

(in reply to theobserver)
Profile   Post #: 80
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