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Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 12:41:23 PM   
BitaTruble


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"The development of the international situation in recent years has been characterised by a number of negative trends. Responses to new threats can be made only through collective efforts. That is why we favour a carefully planned reform of the United Nations to bolster its central role and the effectiveness of its structures and mechanisms.

Based on this we need to take steps to develop an international arms control regime. And progress in US-Russian cooperation would play a key role in this respect. It's no secret that many states, simply due to inertia, look at which way the wind is blowing in relations between Russia and the United States. Yes, today these relations are not the best. And many questions are being raised in Russia, including moral ones."

My interpretation is that he's speaking of American morals, not Russian morals given what followed.

"But I would stress that we have no issue with the American people, we do not have inherent anti-Americanism. And we hope that our partners, the new administration of the United States of America, will make a choice in favour of full-fledged relations with Russia."

Why mention there is no inherent anti-Americanism if you are speaking of the morals of your own country rather than those of another? This bothers me on several levels, not the least of which is the fact that morals are not only highly subjective, but in the US, extremely diverse to boot.

In that same speech, Medvedev said the following:

"Therefore I will now announce some of the measures that will be taken. In particular measures to effectively counter the persistent and consistent attempts of the current American administration to install new elements of a global missile defence system in Europe. For example, we had planned to decommission three missile regiments of a missile division deployed in Kozelsk from combat readiness and to disband the division by 2010. I have decided to abstain from these plans. Nothing will disband. Moreover, we will deploy the Iskander missile system in the Kaliningrad Region to be able, if necessary, to neutralise the missile defence system. Naturally, we envisage using the resources of the Russian Navy for these purposes as well. And finally, electronic jamming of the new installations of the U.S. missile defence system will be carried out from the territory of the same westernmost region, that is from Kaliningrad."

Things don't seem to be going well and as this speech was given the day after the election, I'm not convinced that the new administration is going to be viewed, globally, as any different than the current one. It seems to me that any progress made with Russia over the last few decades has cracked in no small way during the course of the current administration after what happened in Georgia in August. Hopefully, the relationship is fixable with good diplomacy, but given that Russia views Georgia as an aggressor, I'm not sure what steps can or should be taken in regard to a viable partnership or at least the idea that we can have a diplomatic and peaceful solution to our differences. Thoughts?

Complete text of Medvedev's speech

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 12:55:44 PM   
meatcleaver


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Most of the speech is just rhetoric for the domestic and foreign audiences, like most political speeches are. For the most part political speeches are empty rhetoric and grandstanding for those stupid enough to take them serious. Though the substance in this one is the Russian response to the USA encrouching on its borders. The USA would have probably had a far more aggressive response to anyone encrouching on its borders.

I understand Obama had given Bush assurances that he would proceed with the installation of missiles in Poland, that sent a message to Russia that nothing would change under the new administration. That means also, there will probably be no real Russian cooperation on Iran, which will make the USA's policy there all the more difficult. I thought there might be change because Obama seemed to suggest the USA needs to cooperate with other countries rather than bullying them as the US did under Bush.

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:10:06 PM   
LadyEllen


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"we'd really rather not keep financing the three missile regiments, and we'd really prefer not to fund the deployment of missiles in what was East Prussia or have our navy in the Baltic costing us a fortune - but to be honest, if the missile system gets deployed we have to do something to save face with our people and with those who look to us as allies; otherwise our people will think we're weak and our allies will drift away.

"we'd like to reach an agreement that is negotiated with the new US administration rather than imposed as we felt was the case under the previous US administration - we have to be seen as equal partners in things if anything's going to happen, but at the same time we're big enough to stand on our own and we will or our people and allies will think ill of us. The thing is, we see Islamic terrorism as a threat to us too, and we're quite happy to cooperate on it, but on the understanding that we do so as partners, not as bedfellows - again, on account of our need to preserve our dignity and independence. We look forward to the new administration understanding this and proceeding from there"

E

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:22:36 PM   
BitaTruble


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Where's that from, Lady E? I don't recall it in his speech of Wednesday?


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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:27:28 PM   
LadyEllen


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Thats my interpretation of what he said without saying it for the reasons of his people and allies.

E

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:32:38 PM   
BitaTruble


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Ah, okay. I watched the rebroadcast of the speech on C-Scam on Friday, then found and read the text today and didn't recall him saying anything like that. Thought it was menopause creeping into my brain waves again. ::chuckles::

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"Oh, so it's just like
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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:34:05 PM   
LadyEllen


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I wish I had the same explanation for my brain waves; I'd be a medical marvel LOL!

E

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 1:52:51 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

In that same speech, Medvedev said the following:

"... And finally, electronic jamming of the new installations of the U.S. missile defence system will be carried out from the territory of the same westernmost region, that is from Kaliningrad."

Wow, that's something.  Some folks would regard that as highly aggressive behavior, even more so than re-siting missiles.

thornhappy

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 2:19:52 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Could this be..............The Biden Prophesy???

People will be saying that about every foreign policy problem from now on I guess because more often than not foreign issues are nonstop problems. Like if your neighbour is playing his music too loud you can only sound proof your house, you’d rather just negotiate with him to save yourself some money or if you are Bush break into his house and steal his sound equipment.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/9/2008 2:31:32 PM >


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 2:50:03 PM   
Termyn8or


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Nice thread bita, it shows that we need to be cognizant of other nations' rights to sovereignty, and actually our own.

I agree with LE's interpretation but I don't think it should have been in quotation marks, but oh well. What it says is "We are not stupid, we are not going to drain our economy like that if we can avoid it, after all if neither one of us is going to push the button, why have the missiles in the first place ?". Thing is the Russians can't borrow as much money as we can. That is one thing that can make a difference.

Why should we be at odds with Russia at all ? They went into Georgia, but Georgia was not being nice. China went into Tibet or somewhere, where was our aprehension and disgust then ? (as a nation)

Both the US and Russia used Afghanistan as a stomping ground for a long time, why ? It almost seems like a plot, like a commercial to get you to watch wrestling on TV. If that is the case, what are they trying to draw our attention from ?

SLV, I do think this may be the Biden prophesy. I only hope he has the sense to say, let's not and say we did or something like that. Let's not spend the money. We do not need this. That is what I am looking for.

Building more military bases for the US is like someone going to McDonald's and having to use a credit card. Get it ?

T

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 3:03:31 PM   
slvemike4u


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When Putin talks I will pay attention,though I guess the case can be made that when Medvedev speaks it is akin to Putin speaking,I for one don't believe Putin has surrendered one bit of power.Medvedev is simply his mouthpiece.As for the speech if one looks at it as  a speech by the Russian President for a domestic audience no problem.If it is meant for international,read American consumption.....not helpful at all.

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 5:35:33 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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I for one hope the Russians increase the pressure. Why base missiles in poland? did someone not get the memo china has missiles pointed at us too? fuck, we run roughshod and expect other nations to accept our belligerence. I am glad the Russians are showing a pair and using the petrodollars and funding a resurgence in their armed forces, and showing us they could still give us a very hard time. 

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/9/2008 10:47:36 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

When Putin talks I will pay attention,though I guess the case can be made that when Medvedev speaks it is akin to Putin speaking,I for one don't believe Putin has surrendered one bit of power.Medvedev is simply his mouthpiece.As for the speech if one looks at it as  a speech by the Russian President for a domestic audience no problem.If it is meant for international,read American consumption.....not helpful at all.


As Obama's foreign policy seems to be shaping up to the same belligerent Republican foreign policy, I think I'm being proved right that American presidents dont call the tune, the people who own or have interests in, the American military-industrial complex pull their strings of the President.

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 9:23:54 AM   
Termyn8or


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meat, do you remember who coined the phrase military-industrial complex ? Hint - it was a US President.

T

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 9:34:20 AM   
popeye1250


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He lost me when he mentioned the "U.N."
"Reforming" the "U.N." would be like trying to turn a '58 Edsel into a race car.
I'm still not getting why the U.S. "needs" missiles in Eastern Europe.

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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 9:37:09 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

meat, do you remember who coined the phrase military-industrial complex ? Hint - it was a US President.

T

More interestingly, what was the background of the Secretary of Defense of the President who immediately followed?


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 9:59:58 AM   
slvemike4u


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McNamara ?

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 10:04:36 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

McNamara ?

McNamara, who ran Ford before becoming Secretary of Defense for JFK.

No sooner did Eisenhower warn against the military-industrial complex than his successor in office embrace the concept with both arms.


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 10:15:45 AM   
slvemike4u


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Well CL,the man was a fucking genius,where else was Kennedy to look when searching for the "best and the brightest",but America's highly sucessful Industrial backbone.....chief amongst them being the Auto Industry.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medvedev's speech and American morals - 11/10/2008 10:48:29 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

meat, do you remember who coined the phrase military-industrial complex ? Hint - it was a US President.

T


Eisenhower. He also warned about its power and said even with inside knowledge of it, it was beyond his control and feared for Presidents that came after him that didn't understand how it worked.

I have paraphrased him.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/10/2008 10:49:12 AM >


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