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To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:07:06 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
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Hi all, I'm about to do something very stupid.  This I recognize so I dont need anyone pointing it out to me.  Its something I doubt few will understand and a few have suprisingly understood.  No need to point out the insanity to me.  I fully get it.

I am trying to work things out with my ex.  In our talks he asked if I wanted to go back to being his slave.  My initial reaction is both yes! and no!.  In reality, I did say yes and then i retracted it and said "can I think about it - its not something I can decide right now"  I also said I would like to talk about it with him first.  There can't just be .... bam! Slave again.  Do as he says.  Even if I wanted to, I couldnt.  Self preservation and all that.  I know he is willing to work on all of this with me, we'll have a team effort here.  So our family can be whole.  My question that brings me here to you all is - how do I lay down proper, solid ground work to keep things ok.

My answer to his question is "yes....... if."  If he'll be mature, responsible, better educated on bdsm, loving, caring, able to look forward at consequences of actions, able to understand long term effects, have future goals, the ability to be consistant, make "right" and GOOD decisions. IF.  If when I say stop.  He stops.  If I say something is not cool, he doesnt do it and last but not least not do anything that is going to harm or hurt me.   ** and if i do allow something like a spanking or w/e it not go too far.  When i am at my limit, it stops. Not more than i can handle.  No breaking me down, i guess is what i mean. Oh and actual "fun" bdsm scenes.  Where it only feels good.  No fucking pain whats so ever. (which I have only ever experienced once at the hands of some one else, so not sure how to get that from my ex)

Imo - what I am saying I want does not sound anything like a slave.  I want choice, limits, boundaries, guidlines, I also want to be apart of whats being decided.  Mostly i want these things because my trust and respect level is low and if they were earned back then I could give them up.  Maybe in like 5 - 10 years. 

For now. 

I am unsure how to attain what I want.  I want most of what we used to have...... with out the bad stuff.  I want no more suffering, misery, unpleasantness, roller coaster rides, uncertainty, or wicked things happening.  I want alot - but i'm giving you the short list here.

I do understand that what I want might be impossible.  I am willing to settle for a 50/50 relationship and if that doesnt work just a co-living/friendship relationship so the um's could have both parents in the same house. 

How do I lay the right ground work?  I know that it takes two to tango and i obviously did not lay any ground work in the past.  I just followed blindly.  I never stood up for myself.  I never demanded better.  I didnt do my job in creating a good relationship.  I allowed him to be a piece of shit and I allowed it to get abusive.  I will not allow it again. 

My brother says its like alcoholism.  If my ex and I particpate in "deviant" sex (lol my brother called it deviant sex) - my ex will become addicted again and I will open up the door for more bad things to happen.  We'll be right back where we were when we broke up. So here we are "opening" that door.  I dont know if my brother is right or not.  He usually is right, but here's betting he's wrong this time?

But anyways, bring the bdsm back into things does make it tricker.  It will not be right away.  This is all going to be a very slow and drawn out process.  So its not set in stone, its not happening over night, and its all going to be done very cautious.

I am very very sure this is the best place to ask how do i get what I want.  IE healthy boundaries and all I listed above?  How do i set it up, so that its possible?  What do I need to do as a person and what would he and I need to do together to make it work?  I was thinking that a safe word and a set of "hard" limits or something should be talked about?  I've heard of contracts before so its all laid out, but i dunno if thats for us?  And - if yall think a contract is a good idea (as I know there used to be tons of ppl who advocated them) how would we go about setting it up?  What type of format?  All i can think of to start are safe words, contracts and limits.  I know there has gots to be tons more ways to create a healthy relationship.

Please be partially kind to me - )  I'm sticking myself out here to ask these questions and to lay this all out for you.  I cant ask anyone else in the world and granted this is like asking the world, but i'm annoymous here.. so its also like not.

I want to do this right - can anyone show me how?

**edited to add another limit thing I want.

< Message edited by DisenchantedLife -- 11/9/2008 1:14:09 PM >


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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:19:36 PM   
antipode


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quote:

If my ex and I particpate in "deviant" sex (lol my brother called it deviant sex) - my ex will become addicted again and I will open up the door for more bad things to happen.


Ah no. I think that most of the time (and I've done it, once) both partners fall back into the old behavioural pattern. It is virtually impossible to "renegotiate" feelings and patterns. Having had the one experience, which ended as the first iteration did, I resolved I'd never go back again. Even though the notion is sometimes very attractive. People change, you see, but they only change in different situations, with different people. One ex wanted to get back together, and I told her the only way I would consider it would be if we moved to SE Asia together, a plan I had at the time. She came back and said to go ahead, and she'd join me there. And I told her that I only thought it would work if we did a new environment, a new experience, absence of all of the old stuff, and did it together. Sure enough, she never came around.

I've seen very few others negotiate this successfully, as well.

Hope that helps. Move forward, not backward.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:21:51 PM   
JustDarkness


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Safe words and contracts won't help you much if the harm is done.
Rebuild trust..that is what you need.
You already stood up against him by not saying ÿes"emmediately. That is a good thing.
Give it time...and really restart if you want...from zero.



< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 11/9/2008 1:22:43 PM >

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:25:32 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
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Another question.  Can anyone post good, credible, reliable websites on bdsm, bd, sm, ds, ms, and so forth?  Stuff we can really rely on to guide us?  I know that its pretty much like burger king, have it your way - but we really need guidelines.  Or atleast something to educate us better on what IS and isnt. 

Like is it bdsm if you bite a neck and pinch the nerve and a person can feel their ear for weeks?  And i guess other ideas on how to create a healthy d/s relationship.  Hopefully my point is gotten?  I feel like I'm doing alot of explaining.  trying to give the whole thought process so anyone can really get an idea to give some really good answers?

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:28:02 PM   
ThundersCry


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Do what you need to...do! Its about...you.
 
I wish you the best...Disenchanted one...

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:30:02 PM   
natasha66


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In my experience, limited as it is, and my circumstance also being different than yours, i'd have to say it didn't work.  Yes, i already knew how he "did" things, but it was not nearly enough to stay.  Being with someone because it's familiar is not a reason to stay together....we soon fell back into the same patterns, and now that i am with someone else, those patterns are really difficult to break.  Was it worth it? No.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
~Basil Fawlty

Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:33:04 PM   
DisenchantedLife


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Thank you for your answers.  I do understand the impossiblity of it all.  I have contemplated that often.  I understand what I am looking for could very well be impossible.  But I'm willing to try and give it 100% effort.  If it fails it fails, if it succeeds we have gained so much. 

I will keep in mind the "new istuations, enviroment, experience, and absence of old stuff".  I think that could actually be possible.

The harm that was done to me........ is over a year old.  We have been seperated and barely speaking for over a year now.  The harm I have done him (if you call it that and alot of ppl do) is not as old.  (i called it protecting me and mine) Anywho.

I have no trouble starting at ground zero.   I just do not know how.  I also do not know how to rebuild trust.  Can you elaborate please?   Yes, i agree.  We will give it time.  Lots of time.  Go slow.  We have both agreed on that.  And thank you - odd as it is.. not saying yes immediately was hard.  Which is amazing because I have told myself for a year "never again"

Thank you for the reponses.  If there's any chance you could elaborate on some of the things you said?  Treat me as if I'm stupid and totally don't get it?  I've never actually put in any effort in buildling a good relationship before.  I am ignorant as to how.



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I'm pretty sure I've turned into a bitter bitch with a huge shovel. One of these days I'm going to exchange the shovel for a hoe

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:34:49 PM   
IrishMist


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Umm, this is going to sound harsh but; from what you wrote here, it would seem that what you are asking for...( more maturity, responsiblity, etc ) from him...is not something you can demand from another person. Either a person IS mature and responsible, makes decisions that are GOOD for all concerned....or they aren't. It is not something that can be demanded or forced.

I understand WHY you want to get back together, and perhaps HE has reached a point in his life where he can be different enough to satisfy you in that respect; but, since I am on the outside looking in, I can not make an informed decision about something like that.

The best advice I can give is to open the lines of communication wide; BEFORE YOU AGREE TO ANYTHING...and keep them open. If you really want to reunite for the sake of the little one's, then do so, but don't put any pressure on each other to 'be the perfect Master and slave with youngins' . Instead concentrate on the basics; being parents who live in the same house and are capable of maintaining a relationship that is harmonious and loving.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:46:47 PM   
DisenchantedLife


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Thank you Thunder.  You remind me of some one that was very dear to my heart years ago.  An old biker dude = )  We called him Reaper, but he had the biggest heart I ever saw.  I love your picture.  You look so lost in thought, contemplating the world and everything around you.. almost like you're looking back at your life........... or forward to what your life will be.

BUT its not about me.  Its about two very awesome ums and its about seeing how happy and bright their faces are when they have two parents with them.  Its about seeing my little lo shower kisses on his daddy. 

Its about trying to make it work so there is a happy, healthy, stable, secure home/family/enviroment. 

Irish..... no it does not sound harsh.  I agree its not something you can demand or force from anyone.  I am hoping he is at a place in his life where he can give it.  In the chance that he is not, I am looking for a way to keep things on the right side.  Like if he wants to do something that is not sane, responsible, mature, etc then I have " a b or c" to stop it.  Like a safe word or limits or whatever. 

I also agree we are totally not looking to be the perfect master or slave.  Thats not what I'm asking.  I don't even know if we can go there.  What I am looking for.... if we go there is how to do it correctly so it stays healthy, sane, mature, responsible, etc.  How to keep it on the up and up?

And thank you for your understanding. 

edited to add - we've both agreed that we really need to work on communication and that it is key to success.  I know I need to build my communication skills..... but i have no clue how to do that.  I'm also not sure how we "work" on communication other than make sure we talk alot... (about what?)  Feelings?  what we want?  Like i said - please treat me as a dunce with your answers as I have never worked on or cared to or really ever taken a relationship seriously. I'm not excatly sure how to do this.  I hve no experience.  Mostly because I never looked at a relationship as a long term goal.  I never said - this is what i want for the rest of my life.  Its usually just date them and ... i guess dump them when I was done?  Which is not what i want now.  This is for life and it needs to be done right.  So in my long winded way... if you suggest something - can you please explain your suggestion?  (Like how the hell do you start at ground zero??  WHAT does that specifically mean?)

and thanks again for your responses.  I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to contemplate my crap and giving advice, when I know everyone already has enough of their own crap to contemplate

< Message edited by DisenchantedLife -- 11/9/2008 2:10:50 PM >


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I'm pretty sure I've turned into a bitter bitch with a huge shovel. One of these days I'm going to exchange the shovel for a hoe

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 1:52:10 PM   
ShiftedJewel


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You know? I had an ex husband. Our marriage started out crappy and got worse. He was hateful and emotionally abusive. I left him. Years later, and I mean several years later, after he had quit taking our sapling from me at gun point every time he got pissed about something,we actually started talking civily to each other again. And I remembered all the good stuff, you know? How he never forgot a birthday or anniversary and things like that. Yeah, I did remember the bad times, I guess I just didn't remember them as clearly as I should have. Anyway, we ended up getting back together. We dated for a while and finally said what the hell and moved back in together. And he really had changed!!! He was no longer emotionally abusive... he hit me instead.... quite often as a matter of fact. Tried to kill me a few times. I'm sorry, I believe that some people are just not meant to be together. Apart we could talk on the phone for hours, we could visit and have a great time. But you put us in the same house for any serious length of time and it was hell on earth.
 
My suggestion would be to follow your gut, make sure you aren't going into this with rose colored glasses on and for the sake of all that is sane, make sure you aren't doing it because it's comfortable... because you know him... you know?
 
I know, you didn't ask for that, you asked how to set the ground rules. I'm sorry hon, but to me, it's only common sense that you would NOT want to be hurt again, that you would want him to be more mature, more responsible, more reliable and all that happy crap. If he isn't all those things already then even putting them in writing isn't gonna further your cause. Best case would be date for a while... a long while. Take the time to see if his temperment has truly changed any, see if he has grown up at all. Put him in situations where you'll be able to see for yourself that he really has changed.
 
Jewel

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:07:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I have always said "you can change your behaviour, but you can't change your SELF."  I know there are lots who will argue with me, but I deeply feel--and experience has borne me out--that a person is whoever he or she is.   It could be that a veneer of goodness is laid down over the flaws, but that hardwired personality is still going to be there. 

I am not saying that no one improves or grows, of course most (many?) of us do.  But growth is work, and not something that we can demand or expect.  Not everyone is up for it, especially if they are content with who they are.  Protect yourself, and don't let the desire to be not-alone cloud your judgement.

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[page 23 girl]



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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:13:15 PM   
Mercnbeth


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this is merely a suggestion and certainly not something that this slave has ever tried, BUT, all that being said, here are her thoughts about your query:
 
perhaps you could establish a Top/bottom relationship with him, including negotiations for scenes, safewords, limits, boundaries, etc. it could be a sort of "proving ground", if you will, for him to build up your trust that he means what he says about being mature, capable, knowledgable, responsible and responsive to your needs/concerns for safety, etc.  any other interactions you would have would resemble a vanilla relationship, with no submission or dominance expected/given by either of you as you go about your lives/relationship.
 
after a time at successully engaging each other in the bedroom/dungeon as Top/bottom, perhaps then you could negotiate a Dom/sub relationship whereby you allow him control over certain aspects of your life/day, within certain boundaries and limits that you require not to be exceeded.  this could allow him the opportunity to further prove to you that he can be responsible and mature about everyday things and issues outside of a negotiated bedroom/dungeon scene.
 
if and only if, after spending some time as Top/bottom and then more time as Dom/sub, your confidence in him has been restored, he has earned your trust to guide/protect/use you as he sees fit without it being detrimental/harmful to you---and yours, you might desire to re-visit the idea of a Master/slave relationship.
 
best wishes to you.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:18:12 PM   
windchymes


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You have to have attainable goals/desires/expectations, etc.  He can't be something he's not, he won't do things he doesn't want to do, he won't change unless he wants to change. 

You can't paint a lovely picture and expect to MAKE all of it fall into place.  You have to deal with what you HAVE,.not what you WISH you had. 

UM's adapt just fine to one-parent households and to having two one-parents households to go to.  It's better and healthier to have two single-parent households with rational parents at each rather than both parents under one roof filled with fighting, manipulation, abuse, pain and misery. 

Instead of dreaming of a life with him, start visualizing a POSITIVE life without him.  After awhile, that won't sound so unattainable.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:31:11 PM   
WhiplashSmile2


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I'm only limited to one relationship where I got back together with an EX, in fact tried it two times with her with no luck.   The third time was the last strike, just like baseball.

This was the only EX that I ever got back with, and it failed.  As somebody else pointed out in another post, the same behavior patterns cropped up and happened all over again between her and I.

There might have been some hope, if she had agreed to go to counseling or even stuck to her word about getting professional help.  I had been willing to do whatever it took to make things better between her and I.   In the end it was the same old bad behavior patterns that kept coming up.

I wish I had something more positive to share with you.  I wish you the best of luck in whatever choice or direction you go in.  

I will say this, you will know for certain and without a doubt in your own heart, if things can or can not work by trying again.   Just be prepared in case it does not work out so well.   I know I am not very optimistic sounding here.   Again, this was my own experience and it does not mean it will be your experience getting back together with him.

It's important to have a healthy relationship, at times some people we dearly love at the time are not good for us, are unhealthy and toxic even.   Just because you love them or they say they love you, does not mean it's right to get back together. 

If it falls back into the same old behavior patterns and things have not changed, all I have to say, is be prepared to take responsibility for some of the hurt and pain it causes you in the end.  There's a limit to the amount of hurt and pain they are responsibile for when you are the one responsible for staying involved with somebody who hurts you.   Just some advice in the event everything fails.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:32:36 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
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beth you rock.  Thank you.  Its a very very good suggestion.  Actually I love it.  I can see in each place where I have questions if things would be followed or pushed over the limit.  Thank you.  So not an over all negotiation for bedroom, but a play by play each time?  Rules for both of us?  Laid out before hand.  Cos we all know, once he's got me in bed all logical thought leaves my head.  Yes and if he can keep my safety and others safety at forefront its pretty safe to say its okay to take another small step forward.

So thats what we need to do.  Negotiate our wants, non wants, limits boundaries, safewords and limits?  I do see a minor hitch with that, we naturally fall into a d/s thing together.  He leads, I follow.  He says do something, i do it.  I'm sure I can figure out how to modify things so they work that way.  Excellent excellent suggestion.  Thank you.  Thank you for explaining it fully too!

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I'm pretty sure I've turned into a bitter bitch with a huge shovel. One of these days I'm going to exchange the shovel for a hoe

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:53:49 PM   
babygirlkitten


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Manhattan
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I'm concerned about a question you asked, ,"Is it BDSM if you bite someone and pinch a nerve and they feel it for weeks?" No, that's abuse. If that's happening to you because someone isn't as educated about BDSM as they should be, as you insinuate in your original post, then I would recommend that you and he read a few books together, and go to as many demos and workshops as you can to learn safety and technique. He needs to learn the difference between good pain and bad pain.

As for the emotional aspects of the relationship, have you considered a kink friendly therapist? It seems like that would be of great, great assistance to the two of you as a couple, especially if there are children involved.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 2:56:44 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
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Hi,

This seems very one-sided on your part.  A relationship takes two people, and you both participated in the last demise on some level, so perhaps you might want to look at yourself and demanding things of yourself in the relationship before demanding things from him because, to me, if you go back into a relationship believing the end was because of only one person, you are deemed to let that resentment surface again. 

Perhaps you both should see if you can be friends and learn to accept each other faults and all before trying to become a lopsided relationship based on control which M/s very much is.  M/s really should be a natural coming together, not a real huge thinking thing.  Perhaps you two need to start back from the beginning of just getting to know each other again, with open minds not look at each other for the faults you saw and seem to still see in him and he probably still sees in you.

Perhaps counseling both separate and together would be a good start and just living together to get to know each other.  No pressures, just remembering what brought you together in the past, and hopefully learning to live with faults you see in each other.  Don't do it for the ums, its not fair for you to put that type of pressure on them - ums know these things.  If you want to keep the ums with each of you then become friends and live close enough to each other so you are both in their lives.  Make sure you communicate and spend time as a family.  Maybe if its meant to be, you eventually will find each other again to the point you move back in together and find what you each enjoy.

Good luck, its admirable you want to get back together, but everyone needs need to be fulfilled, and utilizing guilt to achieve something -- i.e., making demands because he hurt you and using his guilt over that to try and control things and make him sacrifice everything on your behalf won't keep you two together in the end.  You have to forgive him, you have to forgive yourself and you both need to move on together or a part, which ever is best.

angel

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 3:04:45 PM   
MidMichCowboy


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Joined: 3/23/2007
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Has he undergone a life changing experience?

Are you getting counseling and being attentive?

If not, he will not have changed. Sorry, but I've dealt with it way too many times. Wanting to change or saying so means nothing.

I wish you and your ummms all the luck in the world.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 4:09:36 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
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Hi, DisenchantedLife----
I can understand why one would choose to allow someone dear who has transgressed back into their life.  I can also understand why they would choose otherwise. 
I think it's important to be very clear on what issues you had and, if need be, seek professional services to help identify and developa gameplan for overcoming such things. 
Best wishes, 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

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RE: To start Again. - 11/9/2008 4:32:23 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
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~I've never actually put in any effort in buildling a good relationship before.  I am ignorant as to how. ~

Do not think for one minute your the only one that does not know how...

I failed miserably a few different...times. AND still am not sure I know how *to*

At least your able to admit it! Now...you may find this time around your going to be able to in many areas you failed at in the past..

May He bless you and yours<ummms> in your attempt to and for reconcilliation!

~slips off...done~

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