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Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 7:33:57 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I got into a conversation with the lovely Beargonewild about "extreme" scenes, and the difficulty of making them happen, and I am interested in hearing what you think----the following is some of what we talked about.

We both know people who are interested in kidnapping, interrogation, and other scenarios. I understand how fear is exciting, and I have no problem seeing why someone would want one of these scenes---my (our) question is, how to make it as real as possible, so that the trusted person is not so trusted, however briefly.

Let's take kidnapping as a case in point. A felony, in these United States, therefore a scene that has to be handled delicately so as not to attract the attention of law enforcement, or the nonconsensual public. Is it feasible that Little Me, admittedly a burly gal, can overpower my combat trained friend who has fifty pounds on me? How sensible is it that I even be the one doing the kidnapping? In order for a kidnapping to be a "real" experience, shouldn't it be a surprise, conducted by someone other than the top? Really, shouldn't the whole setup be done by someone else, to set the mood right?

No, eh? Too much fear, there, right? But where do we draw the line, and what can we do to make the person have the experience that they want? Those of you who have done these kinds of things, what do you do to short circuit the trust in your top that made this scene a possibility in the first place? How to stop yourself from going "too far"? I keep remembering that thread in the Master zone about the guy who did the rape scene with his woman, before the family xmas party...

(and yes, one of my top friends wants me to kidnap him... so helpful advice would be great!)

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 9:14:37 PM

UmbraDomina

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wow.... tough one....... depends on just how real you want it.....with a combat trained man ( speaking from the point of not only owning a combat trained man who I KNOW could take me down, and myself being combat trained) unless the person is "willing to come quietly" or perhaps you could "break into his house" and use a fake gun ( I would never advocat a real one, for several reasons, one the legal ramifications, and also there can always be accidents).
The idea of having someone he doesn't know "kidnap" him, unless they are big and mean might have a issue with them getting their butt kicked.
Interrogation is the fun part, I loveeeeeeeee interrogation scenes.....*said in best bad accent* I vill make you talk.....I love creating that feel of it going too far, that playing with the grey matter, streaching the trust.
MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm damn now I want a blindfolded man tied to a chair, wearing nothing but a scared look on his face...... and hubbypet is already in bed and he has to be all fresh tommorow( he's going to be on Tv tommorow) .... damn it damn it
LH it's all your fault, you made these thoughts crawl into my head........

But, PS if it's Ray I so want in on it......*laughs* pleaseeeeeeeeee lol

< Message edited by UmbraDomina -- 11/9/2008 9:18:16 PM >

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~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 9:24:57 PM

FullfigRIMaam

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I'm sorry you don't live where I do, because I might have been able to provide a helping hand... No not myself, I'm a gentle flower, but have big brothers whom I might have been able to persuade to help me or my friend out.

Other than that, how about catching him unsuspectingly, and maybe rope his arms to his sides, while having an implement (real or fake), with which you could permanently harm his manhood should he decide to resist? You of course would have to be sure he won't force you to go there as a natural reaction to being attacked. M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMaam -- 11/9/2008 9:33:32 PM >

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 10:06:20 PM

zakkan

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You can always drug his food. Or use chloroform. Its relatively harmless.

It'll work great if you want to set up an interrogation. Or perhaps you can just make him groggy enough to easily overpower him.

I know I'll like it... *hint*

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 10:29:57 PM

FullfigRIMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan
You can always drug his food. Or use chloroform. Its relatively harmless.
I know I'll like it... *hint*

Drugging his food is only a good idea if you know how he will react to a particular drug. Great ideas by the way for Lady H, thanks. I like my boys awake and enthusiastically volunteering self for whatever. I probably am more the goddess type, lol.

M

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/9/2008 11:21:23 PM

ProlificNeeds

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For abduction type deals, don't let them know it's you, and don't let them know it's coming. Maybe involve someone you trust but don't let them know it will be more than just yourself (at least for the abduction part until said victim is landed into a secure location).
For me, uncertainty and the unknown are very very scarey and add the flavor I'm looking for. Knowing that ultimately someone is watching over the scene at large gives the safety net -I- need not to truely go ballistic, but if I have no idea what's coming or who's going to be involved, that makes it edgy enough.

If you don't want to involve others in the take down and capture, maybe a more manipulative means.. blackmail them into a position where you could immobalize them. Take along some embarassing photo's and get yourself a little racey public humiliation threat going on too if it's your cup.
I think with enough creativity you can achieve the right level of fear, while still keeping your victim safe.. even if it's only making them believe something will happen, that won't.

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 1:42:21 AM

beeble

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quote:

zakkan wrote: You can always drug his food. Or use chloroform. Its relatively harmless.

No. Chloroform is relatively extremely dangerous. There's a reason they don't use it as an anaesthetic any more and the reason is this: there is very little margin of error between the `knock him out for an hour' dose and the `knock him out so he never wakes up' dose. Since the dose needed varies with the person, chloroform results in a lot of corpses.

beeble

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 4:30:24 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Dang, I never thought about practicing on RAY! heh.

Thanks, everyone, you can see where Bear and I were in something of a quandary. We go into edgy scenes all the time, knowing that all parties are "safe", but how much fun is that, especially when the parties are willing participants?

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 4:43:54 AM

PeonForHer

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Don't you have Rohypnol or GHB Stateside?

Failing that, though, the blackmail thing would probably work best, I'd imagine . . .

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 6:04:27 AM

Sylverdawn

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take compromising photos of him during a play scene without his knowledge... blindfold him... but showing some identifing characteristic..tattoo scar what have you... then meet in public.. slide him black and white copy in a plain brown enevelop.. then tell him you have several dozen in your bag which you are more than willing to ever so accidentially spill all over the coffee shop next to his work or church or what have y ou( ie most *dangerous* spot that you rhave choosen to meet ) if he doesnt do exactly as you say..and for good effect let a matching slip of paper with nothing on it slide to the floor face down ( of course nothing on the face up side but a pic of a puppy dog )... then take him out the car truck what have you and sit him in the back seat.. have him put on a pair of darken glasses like those the blind wear.. paint out the inside of the sunglasses so he cant see out either the side or the front.. then put in a pair of good ear plugs.. then cuff his ankles to a set of weights and his hands behind his back.. and get in a d rive around for a fair amount of time.. then take him to a place he is unfamiliar with..make him carry the weights on his ankles in a local dungeon or a friends place who is an accomplish.. put him in a cage in a closet with his hands undone and let him take his glasses off after you have have locked the cage and closed the door..andl eave him there for several hours watch a couple movies.. eat dinner.. whatever.. when his natural bodily functions have made him squirmy and he is pretty sure this started out as a *scene* but now he isnt really sure... then go get him.. and fun is had by all..

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 10:03:42 AM

votiveguitar

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Trickory Dickory Doc. i have found that Females have always been able to decieve a willing male. Try telling him You want to show him a magic trick. Then tie him into a chair. It might work easier if You had a friend pose as the magician and Your excitment about how good the trick is would help draw him into going along with it. Then when he is imobalized You can have Your way with him. You can be erotic andteassing. Treatening and dangerous. or vicious and brutle. depnding on Your moods
You can do interrogation of his deep dark desires and fears. forced confessions of past sins. acceptence of the forth coming punishments. test limits. butYou already knew that didn't You?

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 10:07:47 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Well, yes, D, I DID know that bit.

Honestly, I am amazed at you folks and your chloroform and roofies! Besides the danger aspect, what fun is it if your toy is unconscious?

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 10:31:45 AM

zakkan

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You could learn hypnosis

Or, if you are resourceful, get a taser

Or just drug him with laxatives

By the time he gets out of the bathroom he will be too weak to resist.... Though he won't be in the mood for anything else...

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 2:02:35 PM

PeonForHer

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Tricky one, isn't it? Turning a man's brain into jelly is one thing, but how to do that without turning his wood into jelly too?

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 2:07:49 PM

LadyHibiscus

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Now y'all are just being SILLY.

I have run through my memory, and I have never done an interrogation scene, either. I suppose I have never had the desire to, with anyone that I knew in realtime. I have a female submissive friend who can give me reams of insight into how it works for her, but I was hoping to hear from some of you men who have had this kind of experience. (Alexandra, why does your darling hubby never post?)

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 5:23:00 PM

PeonForHer

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You wound me, Lady H, you really do. You have a plethora of suggestions here. Sylverdawn alone has written a veritable advice book for you on blackmail (with almost disturbing enthusiasm, as well!)

Seriously, I'd go down the blackmail line. It'd be a lot easier to fine-tune things so that he's exactly scared enough, but not too scared. I say that partially out of experience - I actually did get blackmailed once. It was both scary and a turn-on. I've no idea if the woman concerned knew that I felt both things. Well, anyway, fear is like cayenne pepper to me: a pinch is all you need.

The other thing to consider is protecting yourself, of course. He could, after all, go to the cops with an armoury of evidence . . .

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 6:33:43 PM

LadyHibiscus

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Ahem. TRUST and the suspension of disbelief. Not "fuck over your friend".

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/10/2008 7:51:06 PM

UmbraDomina

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Now y'all are just being SILLY.

I have run through my memory, and I have never done an interrogation scene, either. I suppose I have never had the desire to, with anyone that I knew in realtime. I have a female submissive friend who can give me reams of insight into how it works for her, but I was hoping to hear from some of you men who have had this kind of experience. (Alexandra, why does your darling hubby never post?)

He is not on CM, he in general hates working with the computer, since he works on one all day. If you want we can grab some coffee sometime and you can pick his brain, or if your ever down here in the sticks your always welcome :) I can ask him in his mind which would be the best way for you as well.
Honestly I could see no way I could take him by suprise, unless he knew it was me..... even using a fake weapon.... he has the ablity to disarm a armed person rather fast. I would be in fear of getting people hurt if I attempted to "take him down" . I have in the past used the "honeytrap" method. Act like you want to seduce the man...... tempt him tease him..... get him all worked up till his wittle brain isn't working........ tell him you want to do a special lapdance for him... but the rule is you get to tie him naked to the chair so you can do your "full dance" it's amazing how fast he will let you tie him up...... hard to stop a woman from doing what she wants with you, if your arms are tightly bound behind you to a chair, especially after she secures your legs to the chair too.
Then...... walk away......... leave him tied there, for oh say 10 mins..... long enough for you to change into a hot camo pants, black tank and boots look, and gather your bag of tricks...... walk back in he will be mouthy and demanding, yelling..... a good backhand at this point will create the right start, at which point he will look bewildered, in shock and yell more telling you this isn't funny, and demand to be released...... answer this with yet another backhand......but don't speak yet..... open your bag..... start setting out thing....... a syringe, a set of bolt cutters, jumper cables are always a nice touch, while setting the items out expect him to scream struggle and cuss....... reach down pick up his underwear and stuff it in his mouth..... still no words spoken...... this helps make it a bit more real, makes it blur the lines a bit......after you have laid out every sharp, scarey, creepy freaky thing you could stuff in your bag........ smile at him...... then just say....... this is going to be fun...... then blindfold him. showing him the items builds the fear in him, blindfolding him takes away his last control...... then enjoy.

< Message edited by UmbraDomina -- 11/10/2008 8:08:21 PM >

_____________________________

Alexandra ~

~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/11/2008 6:27:16 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Alexandra, there is NO doubt why we have always gotten along!

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RE: Trust and the Suspension of Disbelief - 11/11/2008 7:11:48 AM

MistressFaye1

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Wonderful! I'm packing my bags now.

Faye

< Message edited by MistressFaye1 -- 11/11/2008 7:12:54 AM >

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Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

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