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Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 4:53:51 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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I was thinking, as I responded to both the physical needs thread and the Are there things more important thread -- and this thread is the generation of those thoughts.

I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

For myself, I feel like the reason my relationships are as great as they are is because I genuinely -want- to be with the people I'm with. I don't -need- them in my life, and if we got to that point where any of us felt un-whole unless we were together, we would certainly seek out both time alone to figure out where we'd lost ourselves, and counseling to figure out where the relationship had gone wrong. It also makes it possible that, when we are no longer joyful in being in one another's presence, we can take a break and go off on our own journeys for a while or for a lifetime, and yet there is still love between us, and no need to cling to one another to assure ourselves that we are, indeed, loved.

Now we've taken on servants who were -very-, -very- needy, and, in fact, I really -enjoy- training and keeping servants who are starved to serve. Over time, though, the particular style of our household has tended to allow those servants a chance to become more whole in themselves, and to recognize that the need to serve can be fulfilled without damaging the essence of the person who is in service, which is something else I love being a part of.

I look forward to your thoughts.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 11/10/2008 4:54:23 PM >

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 5:03:11 PM

KnightofMists

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I think we share some common ground on this issue.

for example
I need to have an intimate partner or partners in my life to find happiness. And I "want" Alandra and Kyra to be those partners that fullfills that need. Putting That I Need Alandra and Kyra in my life to find happiness feels like putting the cart before the horse. It also to me is a good step towards a Co-dependency dynamic that I believe is fundamental flawed and destined to be destructive to the relationship and maybe even damaging to the people in involved.

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 5:09:53 PM

missturbation

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quote:

I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

Truthfully i really don't know. You see i don't need anyone in my life and sometimes i wonder if that is healthy.
I guess it has to depend partly on what you class as 'need' and a 'want'. If a need is something you cannot live without such as food and water then no needing someone in your life cannot be healthy. You are basically then saying you would die without them.

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 5:11:29 PM

MadRabbit

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Can it be unhealthy when the line is crossed from wanting to be in a relationship to needing it? It certainly can and I think it depends on the context.

If we are talking about the context where a person ties their self worth and value on "being with someone", then most certainly, because that places a large degree of baggage on the other partner. You see people all the time who are in spiral of failed relationships because they latch on to anyone who says "Boo" to them, not because they are the right person, but because they "need" to be with someone.

If we are talking about a context where emotional attachment between two people reaches a level where the line between want/need becomes distorted and leaving and finding someone else isn't quite easy, I would say it has the potential to be dangerous, but the rewards of having someone like that in your life and having that bond can far outweigh the risks.

To a degree, it's what people who practice Internal Enslavement are going for and it's not something that should be taken lightly.

When I was a young teenager and emotionally unaware and undisciplined, I became so emotionally attached to the wrong someone that it became incredibly unhealthy. It was a hard experience and one I hope to never repeat. But now I am an adult with a somewhat impressive (at least, in my own mind) degree of emotional discipline and control so the odds of me allowing myself to become so entrenched with someone again without a few years of history and the security they are the right person is pretty non-existant.

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 6:31:54 PM

AStudyInScarlet

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humans are social creatures. it is a fact of nature that we need other people. needing someone else is not unhealthy. you are thinking of co-dependency. needing love and meaningful relationships that are secure in their permanency is exceedingly human and healthy. that is not to say that some people are not in unhealthy relationships or that some need to be in ANY relationship to bolster their self worth. but they are an exception. the umbrella need is not the harmful factor.

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Post #: 5

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 6:40:40 PM

masterforRT

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I believe that it depends on the person-and situation.

I have met submissives whose need to submit is as deep as their need to breathe. For them, submission is almost necessary for life. On the other side, there are vanillas-thouse who don't feel the need to submit at all, to anyone.

BDSM is a very personal thing. There truly is no: 'one size fits all'.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 6

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 6:41:45 PM

leadership527

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So isn't this a bit of a question about where does want end and need begin? In the strictest of interpretations, I need nothing other than to keep breathing. On a more pragmatic and day to day level though, I have no compunctions saying "I need Carol." It's close enough to the truth and it's way closer than "I want Carol" even if I put "very badly" on the end of that.

Edited to add: Oh yes, and everything that MadRabbit said too.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 11/10/2008 6:42:54 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 9:19:42 PM

DavanKael

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My best friend has a great saying that I am probably going to mangle but I'm going to attempt anyway.
Her husband, who is a big burly guy that's an equally big softie, asked if she needed him. Having known her for over 20 years, I shook my head as I knew where this was going and it was going to be a pouting fellow.
She replied something to the effect of "No, I don't need anyone. Need is a 12-step program. I'm with you because I want to be."
While I would have been every bit as distressed as he was hearing that, I have to say there's a particular simple truth there.
Davan

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Post #: 8

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 9:40:35 PM

LadyPact

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I think, perhaps, on the other thread, I was misunderstood.

It's easy to say the word "need." However, as was pointed out, I have very few actual needs. I *need* air, water, food, shelter, and basic necessities. After that, everything less really is a want. I do have certain priorities for those wants. My relationship with My husband is pretty high up there on the list, followed closely by My dynamic with My submissive. I can put aside certain personal wants that I might have in order to keep those other things sustained. What an odd thing for a Dominant to say! Oh My goodness. The world might tumble and fall.

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Post #: 9

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 10:33:30 PM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I was thinking, as I responded to both the physical needs thread and the Are there things more important thread -- and this thread is the generation of those thoughts.

I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

For myself, I feel like the reason my relationships are as great as they are is because I genuinely -want- to be with the people I'm with. I don't -need- them in my life, and if we got to that point where any of us felt un-whole unless we were together, we would certainly seek out both time alone to figure out where we'd lost ourselves, and counseling to figure out where the relationship had gone wrong. It also makes it possible that, when we are no longer joyful in being in one another's presence, we can take a break and go off on our own journeys for a while or for a lifetime, and yet there is still love between us, and no need to cling to one another to assure ourselves that we are, indeed, loved.

Now we've taken on servants who were -very-, -very- needy, and, in fact, I really -enjoy- training and keeping servants who are starved to serve. Over time, though, the particular style of our household has tended to allow those servants a chance to become more whole in themselves, and to recognize that the need to serve can be fulfilled without damaging the essence of the person who is in service, which is something else I love being a part of.

I look forward to your thoughts.

The dominant party wants. The submissive party needs. If the qualifiers are reversed, or if they aren't authentic, lasting authority is an illusion. If both parties need, they are liquid around a very bright circle of union.

As for the health of need in a relationship, this depends entirely upon the nature of the relationship, the depth of that need, and whether it is requited or not. In terms of D/s, excessive need makes one an excellent slave, so long as that need isn't coming from ego.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 10

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 10:50:19 PM

DesFIP

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I'll be the first to say that there's a touch, and then some, of codependency in my relationship. He wants me to need him. That's a turn on for him. And he's more than willing to indulge my neediness all the time not only when he's in the mood for it.

But it's a healthy relationship for me. I judge by the fact that I have much fewer panic attacks since being with him, by the fact that my therapist sees me as being much stronger. But needing him hasn't caused me to lose myself, if anything being able to admit that I do need him is a lot healthier than pretending I don't, lying to myself and trying to fulfill someone else's ideals of total independence.

Not needing others means you aren't vulnerable to them. That may be healthy for the op but for me that's a set up for loneliness.

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 10:56:40 PM

theobserver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I was thinking, as I responded to both the physical needs thread and the Are there things more important thread -- and this thread is the generation of those thoughts.

I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

For myself, I feel like the reason my relationships are as great as they are is because I genuinely -want- to be with the people I'm with. I don't -need- them in my life, and if we got to that point where any of us felt un-whole unless we were together, we would certainly seek out both time alone to figure out where we'd lost ourselves, and counseling to figure out where the relationship had gone wrong. It also makes it possible that, when we are no longer joyful in being in one another's presence, we can take a break and go off on our own journeys for a while or for a lifetime, and yet there is still love between us, and no need to cling to one another to assure ourselves that we are, indeed, loved.

Now we've taken on servants who were -very-, -very- needy, and, in fact, I really -enjoy- training and keeping servants who are starved to serve. Over time, though, the particular style of our household has tended to allow those servants a chance to become more whole in themselves, and to recognize that the need to serve can be fulfilled without damaging the essence of the person who is in service, which is something else I love being a part of.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Do we want or need a romantic companion in our life? Ah ... the never-ending question that hangs over many relationships both vanilla or otherwise.

I have witnessed women (and men) who have endured damaging, thoughtless and sometimes outright criminal relationships for fear of being alone. If I can not be comfortable enough with being alone, then I will never find the peace and security in a relationship when someone right comes along.

I'll put it in vanilla terms, since I've had no real time experience with the BDSM lifestyle:

If I needed a man in my life, I would not have any self respect left at this stage in my life. The men who have entered my life in the past, have for the most part been okay, but there were some (like the ex) whose behaviors went way over the pale.

There came a point where I had to put a foot down and release the fear of being alone. I stood up for myself and he left. I say, good riddance and kick rocks, amigo.

Yes, it's scary to be on my own when I have a family who depends on me, but I could not live in a household with a man that would blatantly disrespect me and mine.

I want to be in love, I want companionship, I want the fairytale, but I also deal in reality. I can live many years and not get any of that but find fulfillment in other areas of my life.

I don't need a man, but I may eventually want a man. I don't need a dick, but I may eventually want to F*** one.

A man and his dick come and go, but there is no relationship exchange rate high enough to compensate for self respect and peace of mind. That is here to stay under my roof.

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Post #: 12

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 11:43:49 PM

hermione83

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I do need it. I get clutsy, self-destructive, depressed, and my immune system gets so bad I catch everything. I'm so stressed I can barely work, and so on - if I don't have someone dominating me in some way (someone I love). Is that pathetic, dependent, etc? Probably so. But though I need it so much, it doesn't take much from someone to keep me healthy. Loss of it, makes me more at risk for dying. Really. Car accidents, not taking medications if I'm sick, falling all the time - etc are very common for me when I'm alone. I can sort of keep living, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd make it forever. It's been a complete disaster and burden for the codependent party in my relationships by the end - and I never get enough of being dependent. I think if you found someone who really does love your need for him .. it might work out okay.. otherwise, it will drain the other person, and they will get exhausted. IT seems doms always love it at the beginning. The intensity, the passion, the clinginess.. how fast things goes. But then it seems obsesive, and exhausting to the Dom by the end. So yeah, it can definitely kill a relationship. It can also make it Romeo and Juliet style crazy passionate heart throbbyness. I can't get into a relationship without the dynamic. I think this is a lot more common in D/s than you all think. Perhaps it is a mental defect, but it might be able to work. It's just.. harder...

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/10/2008 11:57:45 PM

theobserver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I do need it. I get clutsy, self-destructive, depressed, and my immune system gets so bad I catch everything. I'm so stressed I can barely work, and so on - if I don't have someone dominating me in some way (someone I love). Is that pathetic, dependent, etc? Probably so. But though I need it so much, it doesn't take much from someone to keep me healthy. Loss of it, makes me more at risk for dying. Really. Car accidents, not taking medications if I'm sick, falling all the time - etc are very common for me when I'm alone. I can sort of keep living, but I'm not entirely sure if I'd make it forever. It's been a complete disaster and burden for the codependent party in my relationships by the end - and I never get enough of being dependent. I think if you found someone who really does love your need for him .. it might work out okay.. otherwise, it will drain the other person, and they will get exhausted. IT seems doms always love it at the beginning. The intensity, the passion, the clinginess.. how fast things goes. But then it seems obsesive, and exhausting to the Dom by the end. So yeah, it can definitely kill a relationship. It can also make it Romeo and Juliet style crazy passionate heart throbbyness. I can't get into a relationship without the dynamic. I think this is a lot more common in D/s than you all think. Perhaps it is a mental defect, but it might be able to work. It's just.. harder...

I mean this with the utmost sincerity and no disrespect ...

If you find yourself having all those issues ... when you don't have a Dom, then it's not the Dom you need ... it's a therapist.

I don't say that to be rude or demeaning. I am saying it out of concern for you. I have an anxiety disorder, but I sought help and I still struggle day to day with it. However, one thing is certain, if you are depending on another human being for your happiness and stability, you will be disappointed every time.

You are right about a few things, that kind of dependency can weigh on the best of individuals. Especially when it becomes obsessive and smothering. I would like to think that your goal would be to get to a place where you feel comfortable with being alone and happy with yourself, before getting into a relationship with someone new?

Otherwise it's just a never ending cycle that will be depleting not only to the Doms you get involved with, but yourself as well.

< Message edited by theobserver -- 11/10/2008 11:58:59 PM >

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 12:15:58 AM

hermione83

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I've had therapy. I've taken drugs. But nothing replaces someone to love, and be owned by them for me. It's a basic human need. I even felt this way as a child. I think I'd be happier if we lived in the days where I would've been betrothed at birth and married off at 12. ;) Really, though, I understand that is the common logic, but I am not a complete person on my own. It's not the way I'm built. I need someone. I am perfectly happy taking care of someone else - but I can't take care of myself. I don't love myself - but I have endless love for others. I know they say it isn't possible, but I think they are wrong. It's not about wanting anyone to control me or keep me - it's about wanting someone, to be my best friend, family, etc too... I'm a very hermity type of person, and when my man leaves me, then I pretty much have no social contact. And that's exactly what I want, as long as I have him to lose myself in. I do lose everything without him. It's just me. It's pitiful and all, but I don't want to be happy etc alone as you said. I feel like I would lose all of myself and everything I ever wanted, should I become independent. I'm not capable of it, I imagine, but if I were, I'd never be able to be submissive or even want a relationship anymore. I'd just be solitary and efficient. I'm kind of all or nothing. That is what I want a relationship to fulfill. Be my... everything. I don't mean to drain someone. I think that is probably because I've gotten very negative the longer I've been living by myself. I think if he kicked my butt enough, I could stop being a burden... Or if he just liked having someone need him that much forever..

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 12:50:58 AM

colouredin

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FR

I dont think there is anything wrong with needin someone, I think that sometimes we put too high a premium on independance. Marriage now so often ends in divorce because the need isnt there, (women are in a stronger financial position etc) and thats great. But itsnnice to need someone I think, rely on them i guess is a better word.

I dont need a partner to make me feel like a worthwhile human being, i dont need someone to make me happy, but when I am in a relationship i grow to need them, they become entrenched in my life, that doesnt mean that when we break up i fall into complete dispair without a hope of climbing back out, it just means that while I am with them I need them around.

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 1:30:04 AM

persephonee

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i would love to be able to honestly say everything you just said and mean it...but i have been left. i have been devastated and helpless in that kind of pain. i have a genuine fear of feeling any part of that again...ever.

So i dont "need" anyone in my life other than the one that sorta came outta me.(Nods to the Mods). Do i think i can be in love again? Certainly not with the intensity that i felt in my marriage. i simply wouldnt survive it again. im not being as melodramatic as i sound...i am just being open about how much it hurt when that ended. As masochistic as i like to think i am, i cant do that again. Hard Limit.

i dont know that i could maintain a vanilla relationship at this point, let alone a relationship dynamic that actually meets all my wants in such a deliciously perverted way.

Sigh...whats a girl to do but wait for Him to come along and remind her what makes all the chit worthwhile?

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Post #: 17

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 4:38:57 AM

OneMoreWaste

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I've had therapy. I've taken drugs. But nothing replaces someone to love, and be owned by them for me. It's a basic human need. I even felt this way as a child. I think I'd be happier if we lived in the days where I would've been betrothed at birth and married off at 12. ;) Really, though, I understand that is the common logic, but I am not a complete person on my own. It's not the way I'm built. I need someone. I am perfectly happy taking care of someone else - but I can't take care of myself. I don't love myself - but I have endless love for others. I know they say it isn't possible, but I think they are wrong. It's not about wanting anyone to control me or keep me - it's about wanting someone, to be my best friend, family, etc too... I'm a very hermity type of person, and when my man leaves me, then I pretty much have no social contact. And that's exactly what I want, as long as I have him to lose myself in. I do lose everything without him. It's just me. It's pitiful and all, but I don't want to be happy etc alone as you said.

I feel the same way (including getting dangerously self-destructive when I'm alone). Whether it makes for a "healthy" relationship or not depends on how you define the term. Alone, my behavior is unhealthy, full stop. When I can be devoted to someone, things may not be ideal, but it's hard to look at it as being unhealthy compared to the alternative. Having never been in a place (mentally) where I didn't need anyone, I just can't relate to the opinion that the OP has put forth.

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Post #: 18

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 6:17:30 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theobserver

I don't need a man, but I may eventually want a man. I don't need a dick, but I may eventually want to F*** one.

pick me pick me........... I am such a shameless slut

quote:

A man and his dick come and go, but there is no relationship exchange rate high enough to compensate for self respect and peace of mind. That is here to stay under my roof.

oh damn... I got the feeling you need to respect that man first... oh well... guess I have to do it the old fashion way and earn the fruits of thy labour like I was do....

but seriously, nice post.

It is so easy to say from a distance that I want this and that but don't need that and this. However, sometimes we get in the middle of that relationship and we can see the forest for the trees. We often begin think that we Need that Person... that job... etc to be happy. Maybe because we invest so incredible amounts of time and effort.. maybe because we feel like we won the lottery to have what we have.. or maybe we think that it's just to hard to get to the other side of the fence. Either way... we can slip from just wanting the relationship with this person to needing this relationship with this person. Maybe that is not exactly a bad thing intially but it is a risky direction to go and one should becareful, hopefully the committment and desire for the relationship is balanced with everyone in the relationship.

But, I do agree that it's important that a person is on stable ground before they enter into a relationship... I don't believe that one can move from the crumbling foundation of self and expect to find stability and a solid foundation in a relationship. All that will occur is the crumbling foundation of the self will infect the relationship and it will take it's toll on it. That is not to say that one can find individual stability within the relationship.. many have done so.... but it is another challange for the relationship to have to deal with.. and when do so with eyes open.. the chances of success for the relationship go up.

_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 19

RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 6:31:41 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

i would love to be able to honestly say everything you just said and mean it...but i have been left. i have been devastated and helpless in that kind of pain. i have a genuine fear of feeling any part of that again...ever.

I hear ya. Makes for extreme caution and self protection in the future, doesn't it? I'm not sure the word "need" will ever come out of my mouth again, as it pertains to how I relate to another person.

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Post #: 20

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