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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 7:10:18 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		It is very difficult for me to allow myself to "need" another person, yet I am not ashamed to say that I "need" my Master.  Not in the sense that I would die without him if for any reason the relationship would end, but I need to have a person in my life that I know is looking out for my best interests, concerned with my fulfillment even as I please him, and that always be there in an emergency or make sure that someone else is if he can't be.

There are healthy and unhealthy ways to need.  I don't need romantic love - this is not being offered to me.  He "needs" me in return, whether to take care of certain matters for him or to be a more "personal" slave.  Neither of us sits around 24/7 thinking about how much we need each other, but there are times when need comes to the forefront.  This in no way excludes "wanting" each other.  If I did not "want" him I could not "need" him.

It is not unusual in a lifestyle dynamic, as was previously pointed out, for a sub to feel more need while the Dom feels more want.  That is also not an unusual distinction in a vanilla relationship - often tied in with gender. 

Needing someone is not a weakness; it is in our genetic code as social animals.  There are also times I deeply "desire" my Master.  I have seen partners who "desire" another without necessarily even wanting them.  People rarely feel only one emotion or one pull at a time but more often feel a mix.  I am perfectly healthy and happy with a mix of wanting, needing, and desiring a man who I know feels the same about me.  We have a strong bond and make a good team. 


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(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 7:15:57 AM   
MasterTslave


Posts: 200
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		I think it can be healthy.
In the beginning of our relationship, i WANTED Master T...wanted to be close to him, wanted to be His one and only, wanted to be with Him forever....as time has grown on, i now know that i NEED Him.  i don't know what i would do if He were not in my life...i don't think that i could have the happiness that i have with Him...i don't think that He would be in any better shape than me either.  i think that we are good for each other and we both NEED each other...don't think anything is wrong with that, we were just 2 people that wanted to be 1 unit and have just gone beyond the want part to the need part.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 7:25:02 AM   
hermione83


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		See, those who are hurt and can't need someone again..... I think you're missing out. No really, it is devastating. I am one of those who "die" (close to) when someone leaves them they felt like that about. I do have some basal survival skills, didn't think I did, but I become veryyy unhealthy. But anyway, I have been hurt too - and I know feeling numb, but until you are 100% exposed and vulnerable to someone... you can't complete the other. I don't think you both have to maintain this independence. My parents sort of look like each other by now (just kidding) in a few ways - where they've come closer to what the other is, but I don't think you really can ever lose yourself (unless you're brainwashed or something severe) by giving in to love. All these people are so so scared of that. It's actually pretty darn hard to change. Opening yourself to someone is okay. Though, I wish I could be like some here - only need someone after you have them, and be independent beforehand. I'm not sure how that works. Someone needs to teach me that one =\

(in reply to MasterTslave)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 7:47:48 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Count me in on the camp of "needing" someone but in a healthy manner.  In any D/s dynamic I have been in, there has been that fine balancing act between her wants and needs and desires and my own.  I've wanted my submissives to need me and they have.  I've wanted them to want me and they have.  I've wanted them to desire me and they have.  But each of those three things...want, need, desire...came from different places for the most part in all of them and only meshed in all ways in one of them (the 2nd one) although the first came close.  We've had many discussions about whether she could need me in terms of love because she knew she had someplace safe to fall.  My second one was not afraid of needing me...not to the extent that she would die without me;  in fact she has proven herself quite capable of going on without me as I have done the same without her. 
For me, I want to feel that love and want and need.  I read posts like persephonee's and nueva's and, like hermione and several others, feel sad that they have/are building walls against that kind of hurt again.  Now, if they discover that...as perse put it...that some dominant fellow can come along and break down that wall, then hooray.  But a question is this:  should someone else have to do that...or should people be able to find the rebuilding within themselves that allows them to feel that love and want and need again while at the same time learning that while there is a chance of being hurt when you are that open, it is almost certain that in the end, you WILL be hurt from not being open enough to love and want and need fully again when someone who is willing to do so for you finally turns from their feelings not being reciprocated.  Not because of who they are but because of who someone else WAS and what someone else DID.

(in reply to hermione83)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:23:57 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I read posts like persephonee's and nueva's and, like hermione and several others, feel sad that they have/are building walls against that kind of hurt again.  Now, if they discover that...as perse put it...that some dominant fellow can come along and break down that wall, then hooray.  But a question is this:  should someone else have to do that...or should people be able to find the rebuilding within themselves that allows them to feel that love and want and need again while at the same time learning that while there is a chance of being hurt when you are that open, it is almost certain that in the end, you WILL be hurt from not being open enough to love and want and need fully again when someone who is willing to do so for you finally turns from their feelings not being reciprocated.  Not because of who they are but because of who someone else WAS and what someone else DID.


Don't get me wrong - I am not opposed to loving again. I need to love again. And while I feel it is up to me to break through my own walls, that's going to take time, and it will take all the time I need it to take. I am well aware that most relationships don't last forever, and when they end it is painful. I am not opposed to opening myself up again, in fact, I am currently (slowly) doing that with someone. But twice now I have made someone my life, and twice I have been flattened by what that got me. And while one can say I didn't choose properly (maybe I did, maybe I didn't), loving and needing like that (in both cases I was encouraged to do so) came with a very high price tag. One I don't know if I'm willing to pay again. Right now I'm of the mindset that someone can compliment my life, but not be my life. If some find that sad, well that's ok. Maybe in time that will change. I just don't foresee it at the moment.

Edited to add: This makes me wonder how "walls" and "boundaries" differ from each other, and what is that difference? Walls are always seen as a bad thing, but maybe at times they are exactly what a person needs? We always seem to see people encourage boundaries but discourage walls. Maybe that's a subject for a different thread, but I do wonder...

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 11/11/2008 8:26:54 AM >

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RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 9:17:00 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Walls are not always a bad thing, they very often are a necessity to block off parts of your thinking that are too painful to cope with at the moment. The problem with walls is that they "should" be a temporary fix, and often end up being permanent structures. When a wall remains that no longer serves its original purpose, that is when they become an impediment to growth.

You said "Right now I'm of the mindset that someone can compliment my life, but not be my life." And from the following statements you perceive that as a sad statement that you hope will change some day. I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion that sentence is pure wisdom that I would embrace. This is the place where your need becomes all encompassing and the more you cling, the more damage you are doing to yourself and your relationship. You should think about desiring someone to compliment your life without letting it BE your life.

For an example, my wife and I see each other as two planets whose orbits cross regularly. We swing away from each other, going into our separate lives, but always swing back together again to our life together. The act of going apart brings us into contact with other friends, other ideas which we can bring back when we are together as different points of view. It helps keep our relationship fresh even after 20+ years together, and it strengthens the bond between us.

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You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 11:05:16 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Count me in on the camp of "needing" someone but in a healthy manner.  In any D/s dynamic I have been in, there has been that fine balancing act between her wants and needs and desires and my own.  I've wanted my submissives to need me and they have.  I've wanted them to want me and they have.  I've wanted them to desire me and they have.  But each of those three things...want, need, desire...came from different places for the most part in all of them and only meshed in all ways in one of them (the 2nd one) although the first came close.  We've had many discussions about whether she could need me in terms of love because she knew she had someplace safe to fall.  My second one was not afraid of needing me...not to the extent that she would die without me;  in fact she has proven herself quite capable of going on without me as I have done the same without her. 
For me, I want to feel that love and want and need.  I read posts like persephonee's and nueva's and, like hermione and several others, feel sad that they have/are building walls against that kind of hurt again.  Now, if they discover that...as perse put it...that some dominant fellow can come along and break down that wall, then hooray.  But a question is this:  should someone else have to do that...or should people be able to find the rebuilding within themselves that allows them to feel that love and want and need again while at the same time learning that while there is a chance of being hurt when you are that open, it is almost certain that in the end, you WILL be hurt from not being open enough to love and want and need fully again when someone who is willing to do so for you finally turns from their feelings not being reciprocated.  Not because of who they are but because of who someone else WAS and what someone else DID.


i think that what i do now is a bit like building my own ladder so i can scale my own wall. When it is time for my wall to come down, it will crack and crumble and come down....gravity and life have a way of wearing on things...example: the Grand Canyon (not to be construed negatively as to me in any way). Meanwhile, i have my wall...and i climb over and cross over to the other side for short visits for now...
Keep in mind, my name is persephone...but added "e" for the net. It was not chosen at random.
If i were for some compelling reason, not allowed back to the other side of my wall....well, who am i to argue.
i am a survivor. i by no means compare myself to women who have truly suffered in their lives, i have no such history. But everyones issues are significant if to no one else, themselves. i have had my pain and my devastation and im assuming it may happen again...im good now to an extent...or i wouldnt be here and wouldnt be involved in the things im involved in now.
i take it for granted that my body heals itself...nods in understanding to those with health concerns, my time is coming...but not yet.
i take it for granted that my mind and my heart will do the same. When i feel stress in my relationships as they stand, when i feel uneasy or unsure of myself and my place in their lives, i sense that a shift is coming and i wait for it to roll over me like a wave. As soon as the word "never" presses against the insides of my mouth to escape, i look over my shoulder to see what new thing is approaching because when i am my most certain, i am the most wrong.
ill get there, CD...i will. But my steps are not always in line with others. And thus far, my steps have led me down some really meaningful paths.
i posted that response in the wee hours of the morning when im my most honest. i stand by it. i am not to be pitied (nor am i accusing anyone of pitying me) i was sad and in a dark lonely place. im in the light now...but not directly in the spotlight. im comfortable with my progress and wait for more opportunities to follow. im smarter and sleeker and more saavy now. im slower and more grounded...despite my raging need for edgeplay...even that is done as responsibly as i can muster. im deliberate but cover with glib...because it has a payoff. i tend to be underestimated at first. i am just a girl...and every bit a strong woman.

Side note...thank you so much Calla for this thread. It came at a time when i most needed it.

Be Well
perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 11:11:03 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I read posts like persephonee's and nueva's and, like hermione and several others, feel sad that they have/are building walls against that kind of hurt again.  Now, if they discover that...as perse put it...that some dominant fellow can come along and break down that wall, then hooray.  But a question is this:  should someone else have to do that...or should people be able to find the rebuilding within themselves that allows them to feel that love and want and need again while at the same time learning that while there is a chance of being hurt when you are that open, it is almost certain that in the end, you WILL be hurt from not being open enough to love and want and need fully again when someone who is willing to do so for you finally turns from their feelings not being reciprocated.  Not because of who they are but because of who someone else WAS and what someone else DID.


Don't get me wrong - I am not opposed to loving again. I need to love again. And while I feel it is up to me to break through my own walls, that's going to take time, and it will take all the time I need it to take. I am well aware that most relationships don't last forever, and when they end it is painful. I am not opposed to opening myself up again, in fact, I am currently (slowly) doing that with someone. But twice now I have made someone my life, and twice I have been flattened by what that got me. And while one can say I didn't choose properly (maybe I did, maybe I didn't), loving and needing like that (in both cases I was encouraged to do so) came with a very high price tag. One I don't know if I'm willing to pay again. Right now I'm of the mindset that someone can compliment my life, but not be my life. If some find that sad, well that's ok. Maybe in time that will change. I just don't foresee it at the moment.

Edited to add: This makes me wonder how "walls" and "boundaries" differ from each other, and what is that difference? Walls are always seen as a bad thing, but maybe at times they are exactly what a person needs? We always seem to see people encourage boundaries but discourage walls. Maybe that's a subject for a different thread, but I do wonder...


nueva~
i am reminded of something when you ask the difference between walls and boundaries...yannow how sometimes a person is not assertive enough in some aspect of their lives...like at work, when their boss puts extra duties on a person because that person will just take it and cope?...and that person decides to become..."assertive" and instead, while in the learning process of becoming assertive, becomes instead, "aggressive" for a time?? i wonder if that is sort of on the same line....we should start our own thread....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 12:04:59 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I like what Sir Dominic had to say about walls.  Walls do tend to become permanent structures whereas boundaries are what are set in place to guard a territory as yours for awhile.

When I say I need someone, I do...in a way that no one else in my life is needed.  That doesn't mean that I can't live without them or that they are MY life because the only thing that is MY life is me...living it.  When I say I want my submissive to need me and I mean it outside the boundaries of the dynamic while still being within it, I want them to mean that they need what it is that I alone bring to them in their lives at that time...but what I bring them needs to be complimentary and uplifting and additive to their lives, not BE their lives.

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 12:36:54 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
....I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

For myself, I feel like the reason my relationships are as great as they are is because I genuinely -want- to be with the people I'm with. I don't -need- them in my life, and if we got to that point where any of us felt un-whole unless we were together, we would certainly seek out both time alone to figure out where we'd lost ourselves, and counseling to figure out where the relationship had gone wrong. It also makes it possible that, when we are no longer joyful in being in one another's presence, we can take a break and go off on our own journeys for a while or for a lifetime, and yet there is still love between us, and no need to cling to one another to assure ourselves that we are, indeed, loved....

I think that's a wonderful attitude.
And I think it's mature (though perhaps that merely serves to exhibit my bias towards it.)

I need human interaction. I even sort of agree, provisionally, with a certain notion that some people have that in order to grow in certain ways, I need the unconditional love of at least one other person to support me in that change.

But as far as my individual partner goes, I think it terms of love and desire, not necessarily "need" (...though intense love and desire can feel like "need"...)
Also, love does not become extinguished lacking the presence of the love object; or even in allowing them their freedom and independence. Need (and sometimes desire), however, often suffers in those circumstances.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 12:52:46 PM   
Fizzgig168


Posts: 28
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		I think if you look at the word "need" as less of an absolute - 'cause let's face it, we rarely ever use words they way they were originally intended anymore - it makes a little more sense.  Also: Needing someone, or feeling like/saying you need someone does not automatically exclude wanting that person.  I agree that it would be unhealthy to be in a relationship where you could say, "I don't really want to be with so-and-so, but I need him/her."  And I can see where even without the level of severity to hear someone say that they need another person is... a little creepy?  But again, degrees.  I will say that I need my Dom, not in the sense that I would die without him 'cause... yikes!  Or even in the sense that my happiness necessarily depends on him because if he were to leave me I would, of course, eventually be okay again.  But as it is I am dependent on him, I do rely on him for almost everything and we're both pretty okay with that.  I think we're okay with it because it's nice for him to feel "needed" and it's nice for me to able to feel like I "need" someone.  But we both know that in the end my world would keep on spinning without him.

_____________________________

"Fall if you must fall. But if you are going to fall, fall hard and fall completely. It is so much better than some suspended animation which can never tell you anything about your life."

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 3:56:20 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

i am reminded of something when you ask the difference between walls and boundaries


I see walls as something that keeps ourselves where we are.... while boundaries is something to keep others where they are.

The question becomes is where we are or they are neccessarily good for us as an individual in the now and future.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 3:57:38 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you, Sir.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 4:00:03 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Right now I'm of the mindset that someone can compliment my life, but not be my life. If some find that sad, well that's ok. Maybe in time that will change. I just don't foresee it at the moment.


frankly... I think that is a good way to live.... having someone or someones compliment my life is fantastic and not sad at all.  In fact... I find it sad the other way around.... I hope that they don't loose that person who is their life.. because it will not be good in the least

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 4:12:44 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I am wondering whether it is possible for a relationship to be truly healthy when it goes from being a 'want' to being a 'need?

I ultimately have decided that it is irrelevant.  This relationship is what I need to be fulfilled in who I am.  If that's unhealthy, then I am ok with that.



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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:08:17 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		I was impressed upon at some point to try and not use "crisis language", and I did take it to heart at least somewhat. Not that I'm observant all the time.

I think by "crisis language", what was meant was applying words like "need", or "have to" or "should" to situations where in fact there is no need or have or should, but where you would simply like very much for that very thing (whatever it may be) to happen.

Perhaps "dramatic language", or just hyperbole, would be more accurate.

The idea, I think, is that you believe what you hear yourself saying very literally, on a subconscious level, and you construct your relationship to the world from that place.


(in reply to Fizzgig168)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:16:53 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		With everything said, I am looking to form a relationship with a submissive where the threshold between wanting/needing me is crossed. It's incredibly powerful to me and it's worth the risks that come with it to have it.

I don't take it lightly or I won't be here racking up 3000 posts in an attempt to constantly educate myself on all aspects of the relationship.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Jeptha)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:20:50 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Walls are not always a bad thing, they very often are a necessity to block off parts of your thinking that are too painful to cope with at the moment. The problem with walls is that they "should" be a temporary fix, and often end up being permanent structures. When a wall remains that no longer serves its original purpose, that is when they become an impediment to growth.

You said "Right now I'm of the mindset that someone can compliment my life, but not be my life." And from the following statements you perceive that as a sad statement that you hope will change some day. I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion that sentence is pure wisdom that I would embrace. This is the place where your need becomes all encompassing and the more you cling, the more damage you are doing to yourself and your relationship. You should think about desiring someone to compliment your life without letting it BE your life.



Hi Sir Dominic,

Interesting words on walls and temporary fixes. Some good food for thought. Thank you for writing that.

As for complimenting, rather than being my life. I didn't express that I personally found that sad. I was responding to another poster who mentioned my words were sad. I don't foresee my sentiment changing, about not needing someone to be my life again, nor do I necessarily want it to. So I think we're on the same page here. :) Thanks again for your words.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:27:35 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

With everything said, I am looking to form a relationship with a submissive where the threshold between wanting/needing me is crossed. It's incredibly powerful to me and it's worth the risks that come with it to have it.



Hi MR, just be sure you're aware of the risks she takes in doing so.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Wanting vs. needing in relationships - 11/11/2008 8:48:01 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

With everything said, I am looking to form a relationship with a submissive where the threshold between wanting/needing me is crossed. It's incredibly powerful to me and it's worth the risks that come with it to have it.



Hi MR, just be sure you're aware of the risks she takes in doing so.


It goes both ways.

The real question should be if she knows what the risks are in doing so.

I understand your going through a rough time and have had two experiences in your life that have forced you behind strong walls.

But, unfortanely, that's just the way life is.

You can either a) Risk your financial health and huge credit debts to strive out on your own to start a buisness and try to find success beyond solely a paycheck or b) Sit on the sidelines and never gain or lose anything

You can either a) Risk yourself by making yourself vulnerable and allowing yourself to be hurt emotionally in order to form a powerful bond with another human being or b) Sit on the sidelines and never experience what that is like.

I'm sad that you are going through issues right now, but certainly not sorry for you. I remember reading your very deep and sincere posts about your feelings for your previous Owner. Since you got to experience something like that, even if it was fleeting, how could I feel sorry for you?

In my eyes, to experience something great like that and to suffer what follows after when it doesn't work out right is far better then to live a life never feeling love or pain.

To me, the question of whether to take on the risks or not isn't a question. There is no question of whether or not to pursue this "thing". The only question is how to prepare myself for what might happen if it doesn't work out right.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 40
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