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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:20:40 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

What was the discussion about again?

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(in reply to Joenextdoor)
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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:27:34 PM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Gun and ammo sales. I need more ammo.

C-D

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Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:30:32 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


....i think there is a presumption that the best weapon against a government is, well, weaponry.


Not the best weapon, philo, but the weapon of last resort.  So you are right that if it comes to that, it means the end of this particular government.
The constitution was written in the manner it was for this exact reason.  That the people would have the ultimate means to take back the government, dismantle it and start anew.
There would be no reason, however, to start anew, if the constitution was being followed in the first place.  

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Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:42:46 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Across the country, there are thousands of gun laws already on the books.  Please tell me what qualifies as "common sense restrictions"?

It would seem reasonable to prohibit firing a gun into the air "a la" new years eve celebrations...what goes up must come down.
Shooting from an aircraft.
Shooting from a motor vehicle.
Restricting armed robbers from possessing firearms.
Restricting insane people from possessing firearms.
Restricting children from possessing firearms except under the direct supervision of a responsible adult who is not otherwise restricted from possessing a firearm.
Would you like more or have I made my point?
 
H.




We already have all these restrictions in place.  Did you think we didn't?
At lease in My county is is illegal to shoot a weapon off into the air.
As for the rest...well, *shakes head in amazement*

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 11/13/2008 3:43:20 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:45:00 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor
So you think Outlaw would be safer sitting in his living room, unarmed, when 6 thugs decide to kick his door in unarmed themselves?  Unless Outlaw is the new Bruce Lee, God help him if he has no gun. 


Well... if you live in a Lethal Weapon movie I suppose being armed makes sense. BUT this means carrying your weapon on you at all times: otherwise, good luck finding the thing after the thugs have kicked your front door in.

Should we carry on our business being armed at all times? Should children be armed at all times, just in case?  Because that's the logical next step.


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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:46:37 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:51:38 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Outlaw85

You know you have a very good point in that too.  I have considered this myself.  If half the population were to suddenly, stop paying taxes, imagine how quickly the government would be brought to it's knees.


but in a worst case scenario then the government would try to intimidate the population through use of arms ala saddam husein or the blockading of boston harbor and the housing of soldiers in people's homes ala King George.

of course, those situations are likely as you said, not plausable in this day and age, and also like you said, the tradition of it is a key factor,  it's a tradition that we are armed to make sure that it never happens again.  

I will also argue that the southern states did have some legitimate complaints and justifications for seceeding from the united states in 1861.




Your post  indicates a dramatic lack of knowledge of the history of the U.S.
 
H.

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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:52:01 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor
So you think Outlaw would be safer sitting in his living room, unarmed, when 6 thugs decide to kick his door in unarmed themselves?  Unless Outlaw is the new Bruce Lee, God help him if he has no gun. 


Well... if you live in a Lethal Weapon movie I suppose being armed makes sense. BUT this means carrying your weapon on you at all times: otherwise, good luck finding the thing after the thugs have kicked your front door in.

Should we carry on our business being armed at all times? Should children be armed at all times, just in case?  Because that's the logical next step.



We should carry our weapons at all times.
No the children should not be armed.  However, the teachers that have their care in their charge should have the right to be. 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:56:54 PM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		Imagine if you will: Abortions Up Since McCain Election Victory.

After 26 years of being of voting age, I still cannot figure out why guns and abortion seem to always be rights that people are afraid of losing if their party doesn't win the election.

Reagan - 8 years
Bush 41 - 4 years
Bush 43 - 8 years = Abortion is still legal

Jimmy Carter - 4 years
Bill Clinton - 8 years = Guns are still legal

It really, really is the economy folks.

< Message edited by SoulPiercer -- 11/13/2008 3:58:18 PM >

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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 3:58:30 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

However, your explanation does not address the "why". It merely pushes the question farther out. WHY does scale matter? WHY are we limited to those immediately


Your post seems to be intentionally puerile?
This is a discussion board.  It's intent,I hope, is to inform and create consensus.
Your post on the other hand simply refuse to acknowledge logic...whycome?
 
H.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:01:33 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Silly little comments about a Lethal Weapon movie, children carrying guns, or your earlier comments won't keep anyone safe.  Just so its clear, if someone kicks my door in, I have a gun within arms reach, so no need to "find it".  Second, as a concealed carry permit holder, in public, its a matter of reaching under my shirt. 
As far as the comments, I have come to learn that when one side has no rational response on an issue, they resort to idiocy.

One last thing...I would rather be someone "trying to find  my gun" when the door gets kicked in, than be a coward on my knees begging for my life, or the lives of my family, because I didn't have a gun.

< Message edited by Joenextdoor -- 11/13/2008 4:03:47 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:05:57 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		With either the abortion or the gun issue, its not always about a total ban on them, but the chipping away at the edges that makes those who care about the issue grow concerned.

(in reply to SoulPiercer)
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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:06:19 PM   
ladynlord


Posts: 247
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		29.99 for a thousand rounds?  Steel or lead core? Corrosive or non?  Count Me in either way.

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Profile   Post #: 373
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:06:21 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Across the country, there are thousands of gun laws already on the books.  Please tell me what qualifies as "common sense restrictions"?

It would seem reasonable to prohibit firing a gun into the air "a la" new years eve celebrations...what goes up must come down.
Shooting from an aircraft.
Shooting from a motor vehicle.
Restricting armed robbers from possessing firearms.
Restricting insane people from possessing firearms.
Restricting children from possessing firearms except under the direct supervision of a responsible adult who is not otherwise restricted from possessing a firearm.
Would you like more or have I made my point?
 
H.




We already have all these restrictions in place.  Did you think we didn't?
At lease in My county is is illegal to shoot a weapon off into the air.
As for the rest...well, *shakes head in amazement*


The question was asked "what constitutes common sense gun laws".  I listed some common sense gun laws which are currently on the books.  If I was unclear I hope that I am now.
 
H.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:06:21 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
We should carry our weapons at all times.
No the children should not be armed.  However, the teachers that have their care in their charge should have the right to be. 


In that case, weapon carrying should become compulsory (you do use the word 'should'). How does that tie in with your beliefs in personal freedom, if gun carrying becomes a compulsory accessory? I can easily imagine a society that makes it compulsory to carry a weapon.

And... why shouldn't minors be allowed to carry weapons? They are not, after all, in the constant care of others. Why shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too? Unless you advocate a society where everyone is chaperoned at all times? And... how free is that, again?

I think the firearms issue isn't as simplistic as some of you would have it; my opinion has considerably mellowed after talking to some seriously together, cool people on these boards... but it hasn't convinced me that I, and my family, are safe from firearms. I want them away from me, at all times. How do you guarantee that?

PS: edited for claridad.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 11/13/2008 4:10:11 PM >

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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:07:57 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor
One last thing...I would rather be someone "trying to find  my gun" when the door gets kicked in, than be a coward on my knees begging for my life, or the lives of my family, because I didn't have a gun.


Sorry, but it sounds to me like you've watched too many Lethal Weapons movie. Life isn't Hollywood.

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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:14:21 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

In terms of devastating killing power, I would far rather have a 12 gauge shotgun with either a slug, or buckshot, than an asaault rifle.  These anti-gun types get so bent out of shape over "assault rifles", and have no idea the massive wound channel that a 1 oz. slug can produce, and you only have to be 18 to buy a shotgun or shells.


The problem really is one of form and not substance.  The only difference between an assault weapon and a sporting weapon is cosmetic.
Your choice of a slug in preference to #4 buck is questionable.  My point being,how many times have you faced an armed assailant in a combat situation?  Until you have the odds are with the #4 buck.
 
H.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:19:51 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Each one of those points is common sense really, and anyone would agree with it.  Now tell me just how you go about legislating that?  How do you keep guns out of their hands through legislation?  I have no idea myself, because any law you pass, they will just break anyway.  They will buy stolen or black market guns off the street or steal guns themselves.  Please tell me how you write a bill to stop them.  Much like a restraining order, its really just a piece of paper, and it never stopped someone intent on hurting someone.  Millions of guns are in private hands now, and millions more on the "street."  What legislation would you pass, and just how will that little piece of paper stop criminals? 


Had you actually taken the time to read my entire post you would have noticed that those laws are currently in effect. 
Nothing will stop the determined individual from obtaining their weapon of choice.  What the law does,which I went to great length to explain,is makes it more difficult for the restricted person to obtain the weapon and it  increase the punishment for the crime.  While at the same time not inconveniencing or restricting the lawful possessor of firearms.
 
H.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:21:13 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Carrying guns or even owning them should be no more compulsory than wearing a seat belt.  Its your choice, but you have nobody to blame but yourself if you don't wear one, or own one.  If you want the compulsory gun society, check out Switzerland.   The same reason minors should be allowed to have guns is the same reason that they should be allowed to drink, smoke, vote, or any of a number of other things.  They are not mature enough. 
    So I guess because you make a  point about minors having guns, we adults should now line up dutifully and turn ours in? 
    How do you stay away from guns at all times?  You can no more guarantee that for yourself than you can guarantee not being in a car accident or getting cancer.  You have the right to keep them out of your home, but just as you have that right, others have the right to own them.  This whole gun argument seems to miss one point...Do not equate a law abiding gun owner with a gun toting criminal.  You can do anything you wish to the criminals, as long as you do not infringe upon my rights.  If you want to make a serious dent in gun crime, use sentencing guidelines for that.  If you commit any crime with a gun, the sentence should be so harsh that it becomes a real deterrent for gun use in crimes.....Rob a store with a gun, automatic life.....Kill or attempt to kill someone with a gun, automatic death sentence.  I will stand with you anytime for a law like that, but will fight you with every breath in my body if you try to infringe on my rights to a gun.  One thing I will say though, because guns don't make the criminal, if you did pass those harsh sentencing guidelines, I bet there would be a jump in crimes with knives, baseball bats, and other weapons.

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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:23:11 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		If you think that I have been watching too many Hollywood movies, then maybe I think that you should wake up from your utopian dream.

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Profile   Post #: 380
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