Phobias and hard limits

Phobias and hard limits (Full Version)

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beargonewild -> Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:19:50 PM)
Most times, many topics regarding hard limits haven't included a person's phobias. I was wondering if a person who identifies as submissive, if you would ask your dom to help you get over a phobia or if the phobia is a "do not enter" zone? Also, do you consider your phobias being part of your list of hard limits? Subsequently for a person who identifies as dominant, do you regard your sub's phobias as something that you are willing to test and help them get over or is that an area which you feel should be left well enough alone?

CalifChick -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:22:28 PM)
My phobia has to do with anesthesia, so it's not a phobia that someone can really help me get over, like fear of spiders or something. However, I seriously doubt that the average layperson has enough training to really help someone get over a phobia. If that were true, then it would be really easy to get rid of phobias. Cali

beargonewild -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:27:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick My phobia has to do with anesthesia, so it's not a phobia that someone can really help me get over, like fear of spiders or something. However, I seriously doubt that the average layperson has enough training to really help someone get over a phobia. If that were true, then it would be really easy to get rid of phobias. Cali In your opinion, do you think that a conscientious dom would be able to help his/her sub to be less fearful of a phobia to where it is a manageable fear and not an overwhelming panic every time it's triggered?

CalifChick -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:31:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild In your opinion, do you think that a conscientious dom would be able to help his/her sub to be less fearful of a phobia to where it is a manageable fear and not an overwhelming panic every time it's triggered? If they took some actual training or did some research on dealing with phobias, then yes. Otherwise, no. There is nothing logical about phobias, and most people try to apply logic to them. You know, that "look at the spider, he won't hurt you", when all the person feels is that overwhelming panic. The person KNOWS the spider won't hurt them, but they cannot control the panic response. Cali

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:37:29 PM)
I used to be horribly phobic about anesthetics, and got over that one purely by force of will. I am not sure if I have any other actual phobias, as opposed to plain old fears. Heights, falling, small spaces, all fun things to me! I don't LIKE having spiders in the same vicinity as me, and I have a highly advanced Sense of Spider (as opposed to the far more useful Spidey Sense!) and I am allergic to deadly deadly bees, so I will vacate the area if there are bees/wasps/etc, but that is more common sense than phobia. I would NOT appreciate someone trying to desensitize me of either concern. I am willing to help someone get over a fear, but deal with an actual phobia? I am SO not qualified. Just let me know up front what your phobias ARE, and if the moment's right, I might mess with that at some point, but mainly, I just want to be sure that I don't trigger a meltdown. If someone is just reasonably scared of something, like swimming, or rollercoasters, sure I would push them along. But I put a big difference between fear, which involves some common sense, and a phobia, which is mindless panic.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 5:39:36 PM)
quote: I was wondering if a person who identifies as submissive, if you would ask your dom to help you get over a phobia or if the phobia is a "do not enter" zone? Playing with a person's phobias is foolish and downright dangerous. Carelessness regarding a person's phobias can easily magnify them rather than lessen them. I would stay well away from a person's phobias.

DavanKael -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 6:01:50 PM)
While I don't have anything that would be considered a true, consistent phobia, there are some things that freak me out that I would delve into with One trusted. Knowing that I could count on the person for my safety as well as not to abandon me in times of need would make all of the difference in the world, as would my emotional connection with them. Davan

antipode -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 6:09:46 PM)
quote: would be able to help his/her sub to be less fearful You don't really think you'll get meaningful answers to this over-generalization? This is a classic for the "yes and no" answer. Apart from anything else, your contention that a phobia causes overwhelming panic is just plain wrong - there are many different kinds of phobia, with many different manifestations.

mc1234 -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 6:19:47 PM)
I have claustrophobia, and as such, have a fear of wearing hoods and having something draped over my face. It's not something that causes overwhelming panic, though - it's more of a 'please hold my hand while I breathe deeply and see if I can get through this' kinda thing. I had started working on it with a previous Dominant but then the relationship broke up. I believe this is something I can overcome with the right person, with his guidance and care - building up my tolerance. It would take time and patience, but it's not a panic situation. If it's something he's interested in, of course, and for the right person, I'll try anything at least once to see if it does cause panic versus controllable anxiety. Now ... toss me into a dark confined space with no way out and I'll have a full-blown panic attack. It can be a matter of degrees when dealing with phobias.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 7:30:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild In your opinion, do you think that a conscientious dom would be able to help his/her sub to be less fearful of a phobia to where it is a manageable fear and not an overwhelming panic every time it's triggered? Only if he also had the necessary skills, patience, and behavioral training in order to effect a positive lasting change. Few do. As Calif said, being conscientious doesn't make someone a good trainer, especially not a good fear trainer. Sometimes the most conscientous thing to do would be to get her to go see a therapist.

PurpleSockx -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 7:36:10 PM)
It really depends on each individuals, in my opinion. I very much agree with Antipode: there are different kind of phobias and they don't affect people who have them the same way. There are some fears also that are not necessarily phobias. I think the most important thing is to discuss these things with your sub. And no matter what never push things or try to convince your sub that their phobia is "not real". Try to find the reasons, the origins of it with them. When they are confronted to what they fear what are their reactions? And, most importantly, do they want to overcome that fear? If they want are they ready for it? And also are you ready to handle a sub's fear? I believe that some fears can be overcomed over time and some won't. It depends on how strong those fears for the sub are in the first place but also on the level of trust & communication both partners have.

CalifChick -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 7:42:53 PM)
I was using the word "phobia" with the clinical definition, which is that it is a form of an anxiety disorder, and includes overwhelming fear and/or panic. There are varying degrees of fears, but they are not necessarily to the level that would make it a phobia. Cali

servantheart -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 7:53:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Most times, many topics regarding hard limits haven't included a person's phobias. I was wondering if a person who identifies as submissive, if you would ask your dom to help you get over a phobia or if the phobia is a "do not enter" zone? Also, do you consider your phobias being part of your list of hard limits? Never in a million years and heaven help the person who deliberately puts those nasty creatures near me or is stupid enough to think they can "cure" me of my fear of heights. I've never considered putting these things in the Hard Limit category, but it isn't an issue in my relationship with Master anyway.

switchtosub -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 10:38:40 PM)
I would consider it an abuse of my trust for my Dom/me to start pushing my panic triggers. And that's just what phobias are: panic triggers. Playtime isn't the right venue to deal with phobias, and unless your relationship is a purely clinical one, your D/s relationship isn't the place either. If your Dom/me isn't an MD, would you have them perform actual invasive surgery on you? During a session? Safe and sane treatment of phobias has to be done by professionals in a clinical context. You would NOT want transference issues to crop up in your playtime. That said, for me there is some crossover between phobias and hard limits. Hoods send me screaming to the next county. It took two years of therapy before I could wear a fencing mask and I still have trouble taking a direct hit on the mask. Sometimes the endorphin rush from a solid hit can be great, and so can the screaming, but it has to be good screaming, not panic...

RainydayNE -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 10:43:53 PM)
a real phobia is just too tricky for an untrained person to deal with, i think. and i honestly wouldn't expect him to even try. mine doesn't affect anything we do anyway

myotherself -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 11:14:40 PM)
I've always been somewhat claustrophobic, but since being diagnosed with asthma and having a bad attack about 5 years ago this has become a full-blown phobia. I can't have anything round my face - hoods can trigger a panic attack just by threatening me with one. I can't watch TV if someone is trapped in a small space. It has even extended to being unable to put my face underwater when swimming. If I can't breathe easily, I can't cope. There's no way any dominant can help me resolve my phobia, and thankfully none have tried. We work round it, and the dominants I've played with are sensitive enough to give this issue a wide berth.

MstrssScarlet -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/11/2008 11:15:37 PM)
I attended a class given by someone I already knew had the attitude that you should trust your dom(me) - no matter what. He proceeded to put a bug down a submissive's top who was deadly afraid of spiders. I think he actually put a cricket down there, but he led her to believe it was a spider. I had talked to her earlier in the day and she was freaking out for hours before they even began the class. He still gives it, but I don't see his point of view and I no longer attend it when I see it advertised at any events. He also "punked" us all by having his submissive wear a wig during play time. He proceeded to chop it off with her crying all the while, begging him not to. At the end, she ran out of the space crying. A group of us sat outside later and talked about how sorry we felt for the girl. When he announced during his class what he had done to all of us, I really didn't think it was funny. All I was feeling when he did it was horror for the poor submissive and then to find out he was simply playing a joke on all of us made me a bit angry. I wasn't the only one. His own personal sub said that there had been many blow-ups because of things he pulled. He described one of them to the class and although he found it hilarious, all I can say is I would never put up with his crap. My personal opinion. Mistress Scarlet

beargonewild -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/12/2008 8:19:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode quote: would be able to help his/her sub to be less fearful You don't really think you'll get meaningful answers to this over-generalization? This is a classic for the "yes and no" answer. Apart from anything else, your contention that a phobia causes overwhelming panic is just plain wrong - there are many different kinds of phobia, with many different manifestations. To the person suffering when their phobia acts up, it does feel overwhelming. I wasn't looking for answers, simply soliciting opinions from people here. Yet with phobias, they have the same underlying commonality which is an irrational sense of fear. Which we all know that fear does manifest differently in each individual. Would it be less of an over generalization if what was quoted read - " may be able to assist the sub type to utilize better methods to cope with the irrational fear so the fear is less overwhelming" Better?

missturbation -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/12/2008 8:26:11 AM)
quote: cope with the irrational fear My problem with a D type helping me with my phobias lies in this statement. My phobias are irrational and i don't understand them. So how is someone supposed to help me with something i just can't explain and don't understand. If i can't explain them or understand them, how can they?

darchChylde -> RE: Phobias and hard limits (11/12/2008 8:26:47 AM)
Well, i'm mildly demophobic (a fear of crowds which in certain situations can be paralyzing), i say minor because there are situations where i'm actually comfortable in a crowd usually if i know the people and have a little buzz. After missing several events with Ma'am and/or the family because of this i actually did ask Ma'am to help me in this, specifically asking that if She wanted to take me somewhere crowded that She didn't automatically dismiss the idea due to my fear. I'm also acrophobic, but i've pretty much conquered that years ago; i gotten some of my biggest thrills from cliff-diving, parasailing, mountain-climbing and rapelling. I basically turned the fear of heights into a drug.

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