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Aneirin -> Artists (11/11/2008 6:51:36 PM)

Artists, those people who seem to spend oodles of time creating nothing more than a visual something as an expression of their soul, do they have a place in the modern world, or is art a complete waste of time and resources ? Should artists give up dreaming and get a job ? Or is it we need artists as an example that people no matter who they are can create in a world where destruction seems the favourite subject.

What are your thoughts on art and artists ?




kdsub -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:02:51 PM)

Artists are nothing special but no less essential then any other profession. An artist is blessed with the ability to see or imagine something and convert from mind to the physical world in such a way as to provide pleasure. An engineer does the same thing designing  and building a trash compactor. BUT I would not want to hang a trash compactor on my wall.

Butch




AquaticSub -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:12:34 PM)

My thoughts? The art world is a competitive, frustrating place to be where paintings, and the painters who make it, are more used as status symbols among collectors and those trying to impress others than actual reflections of taste.

That doesn't mean I stop painting or creating art though. It's more for me at this point. [:)]




Termyn8or -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:22:52 PM)

Define artist. Is that term to apply to writers of great literature and music, architects of the world's most beautiful buildings and other structures, and possibly extend to those who further the aforemntioned's plans ?

Or do you mean just painters and sculptors ?

T




kdsub -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:32:00 PM)

Just me but I think an artist, as a profession, builds something to look at or feel. Other professions build something that is to be used or consumed but there is no reason that they can't be both.

Butch




pahunkboy -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:36:19 PM)

the potential for new dazzling life components  needs creative minds.

the future could contain conveniences and such that typical person has not dreamed of.

the arts are important.     tho I do agree- it is not something one can make a living off of.




dawntreader -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin.

What are your thoughts on art and artists ?


Greetings Aneirin,
 
i have filled my life with artists of all types, i am a creative spirit myself and i have raised an artist. i chose to live in a world that celebrates art in all its splendid mediums and so i create it [:)]
 
In someone else's world, they may chose a different reality that works for them.
 
 




Termyn8or -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 7:50:33 PM)

What kind of art dawn ? The sleek curves of a new automobile, the nice homey feeling of a new house, or perhaps the elegant style of your furniture ?

That is my question, where do we draw the line ?

T

Hmmm, seems there is a pun involved here but I can't quite put my finger on it.

T




kdsub -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:06:25 PM)

Termyn8or..I see where you are going and I think we are saying the same thing. I looked up the definition of artist and one of the definitions was... "A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill". Not only the so called Fine Arts.

That covers a lot of different professions.

Butch




dawntreader -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:08:41 PM)

Greetings T,

quote:

What kind of art dawn ?

 
All art in all forms. If one choses to, one can see art in everything...the artist does not limit himself, why should the admirer? Art is everywhere in my world~
 
As to your question "where do we draw the line?" i will answer with a question...why must we draw a line? If art imitates life and vice versa, there really isn't a line~




DiurnalVampire -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:13:50 PM)

I consider myself an artist. My medium is photography. I do not think I am useless, not am I universally needed. You left out the part where artists are doing what they love and some are making a living from it. We should all be that lucky at some point.
Look around your home, and imagine what it would look like if you removed everytning that was created by an artist. No magnets on your refrigerator, nothing hanging on your walls you didnt create yourself. No sculptures, no fancy borders on door frames, no designs on your clothes or any of the other fabrics. Artists are not just painters making pretty bits to be hung on the walls. They are part of every little aspect of our lives, from our clothes to our foods to our licence plates on our cars.

DV




rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:19:36 PM)

I create art for fun. It will never be sold, or seen by anyone besides my friends and family, but it brings me joy to draw something or to use my inks and make a wash of a tree. It brings me happyness to get a good shot of a tree with perfect light filtering through its leaves. So I think art it important, but in my opinion professional artists are kind of silly.




MadAxeman -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:37:22 PM)

Art is something we desire and admire that adds nothing to our ability to function.
Without art and design we are base and undeveloped.
Define what you mean when you say art is a waste of time.
With out the free-est forms of thought we are without new horizons.




DiurnalVampire -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni
but in my opinion professional artists are kind of silly.


Did you design your own avatar?
Look down at what you are wearing... did you create that?
Art in your house, did you make it all?





MadAxeman -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 8:46:15 PM)

DV thank you for raising this day.




hopelesslyInvo -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 9:01:32 PM)

art is hard to define, and i think that's greatly led to people destroying the meaning of the word and throwing it around for absolutely "anything", especially when people are trying to describe something as being an "artisan skill level"; people can argue that "bagging groceries is an art" and all this crap just makes me want to bury my head into the palm of my hand as it's the only logical response to such stupidity.

i personally segregate arts between what we commonly know as "fine arts" and "everything else", even music.  there's already words for what everyone does, musician, guitarist, singer/vocalist, drummer, designer, director, actor, engineers, dancers... as well as painters, sculptors, illustrators, photographers~

how i look at things is what the end product is...

what is a song? it's music
what is a blueprint? it's a design
what is a mechanical construct? it's a machine or utility, engineers solve problems of practicality, they don't "make art".
what is a painting, a drawing, a sculpture? it's art, there's no other way to explain it, which is why it's called art, these are the things that the word "existed to describe" when coined, and is where the term art for art's sake came from compared to "applied art" when people began implementing it into other things.  art isn't by any defining purposes expected to or supposed to have a "use" which is what separates it from everything else, and why music as well as photography is so easily added to the list of what people refer to as "arts".

the other thing that pisses me off is anyone being able to call themselves an artist despite their proficiency or capability, though i can't win the argument in saying they aren't, i have issues with most people who claims themselves to be an "ar-teest" nonetheless.  i am at least afforded the right to critique something as being bad art and/or questioning the truth of their motives.  taking snapshots with a disposable camera does not mean you're a photographer, and taking them with a six thousand dollar one doesn't either. 

i've never boasted myself to be an artist before, but art is what i make my living off of, and on that subject... yes you can absolutely make a living off of it, no it's not likely to be in the same manner as artists of the past, but storyboarding, conceptualization and animation aside, there's far too much commercial work for there to be no use or jobs for artists.

i see art as being more special than most talents or endeavors for the simple fact that it is NOT essential, art is not about utility, use, or function; it's for appreciation and/or expression.  think of a glass sculpture compared to one of stone or metal, does it not make sense that among the very reasons the glass is preferred and considered more precious by most is that it IS fragile and must be appreciated, handled, treated, and looked at differently because of it?  hell, digging up an old expression, look at a glass cannon in the aspects of art, and then in the aspects of design and engineering, see any differences yet between appreciation/expression and failure in use/utility/function?

big difference between the skill and how you use it, bigger difference between being an artist and producing art.  i'd look at my dentist as being an artist long before i would an engineer or drafter.  as far as medium goes though, the true definition of art is in the deemed intention of the creator, which is why A toilet can be art, but YOUR toilet is not.  the word art and artist gets thrown around so much more than even the word "love" does, yet we all seem to at least know what that word is "supposed" to mean.

art exists to put color in our world, and in other cases, to take it out.  without art, we'd be living in a world very much like something a "machine" would create, so as a preservation to our humanity, i see art as being absolutely necessary.




Termyn8or -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 9:36:38 PM)

Do we have to draw a line ? Interesting.

And what is art ? I seem to be unable to really fully answer that. Maybe that's why I asked. Let's take something I do know about and see how the facts apply. I am quite familiar with manufacturing, and that includes designing. Take the case of the automobile.

There are several engineering teams involved, one for propulsion, another for suspension and so forth, but there is also one to design the body of the car. You have seen ugly cars. I consider some of them quite ugly, eighties and nineties certain station wagons come to mind. Those Chrysler things that look like a 1938 Nash, others. Certain trucks.

Don't get me wrong, if I need a car I would buy anything I deemed reliable, I consider function to be more important than form. Back when that was the rule, Henry Ford said "They can have any color they want as long as it is black". I want the thing to go, turn and stop, and have a heater.

Add to that the fact that I do not buy new cars. Never have and never will. They depreciate too quickly so therefore I will not do it. Then when I buy used the only impact I have on the new car market is on the resale value of similar models. That is a miniscule impact.

But what of other people ? "I wouldn't be caught dead driving that". Then walk. Or select another vehicle. That is where art is sort of mingled with function, industry, actual profits.

Well if they walk or select another vehicle because of looks, an artist has failed I guess. Art becomes important in a society of superficial people, and no matter how much we can be discluded from those who value form rather than function, those people still exist. They have an impact on the economy and that blurs the lines, drawn or not.

What about the music I am listening to right now. Is it not a form of art ? In fact I aspire to create such art. Why ? I don't intend to make money off of it, there are literally not enough years left in my life to get good enough and then to get my big break. Why do I bother ? Why are there three guitars, a violin and a piano in this room ?

Why did I write a fictional book that very few will actually read ? (it is very kinky, contact me for the URL if interested) I mean I can't show it to most of my family and friends, but I wrote on nonetheless. I would love to see my book made into a movie, which would require many artists to depict what I have written, but then it would certainly be X rated. So why did I bother ?

I think the point is I have no problem with art, but I do have a problem with the commercialization of art. I also have such a large problem with the commercialization of Christmas that I don't have Christmas and haven't for over a decade. I will actually go visiting, but I will not accept gifts on that day. A rebellion in a way.

I once had a truck, a Blazer, an old big one. It ran great and was painted green and brown. My friends called it the pukemobile. They had no problem hopping in for a ride though, but I doubt most of them would have actually bought it.

Likewise we have this "sculpture" of a rubber stamp that would stamp the word "free" downtown. That is ugly and I dislike the whole premise of the artist's intention, for my own reasons. Yet my tax dollars paid for it. I think it is an eyesore and erpugnant to the ideals of this country, in that we must work to keep our freedom, it is not given by a rubber stamp. People who like shit like that should pay for it their own selves and keep it on private property somewhere. And if it was in a city where I was mayor I would require them to put a fence around it. I mean the type of fence you can't see through.

My opinion. Sort it out and tear me up if you please. I really don't care. I have been torn up since I learned how to argue, and I was taught by among the best. If you like the "FREE" stamp sculpture in downtown Cleveland, say so. Really I think anything anyone could say good about it would be creative enough to be considered art in and of itself.

I know I'm nuts. Now I am going to do what us nuts people do, listen to Ramsey Lewis and burn one.

Be well.

T




szobras -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 9:37:17 PM)

   Some of my thoughts to the OP, as I have not read all the responses.
First, one must decide “what is art”? Then perhaps the question will have a foundation for an answer.
Even the term itself is applied subjectively to many things not looked at as an “art” over time. Subjectively still now much is in the eyes of the beholder. Be one merely studying in progression of their skill set from amateur, to professional, one need create from that basis.
Secondly,” What is an artist?” as with many labels, given by self or others, an “artist” has come to be such a broad based label attached to a myriad of disciplines over time. With that, it goes to the idea “If one wakes up and feels the need to create, then one is an artist in regard to self identity”


My simple basis definition of art is; A vehicle for the conveyance of information through creative expression.
“An artist” To “realize” (to make real) something from a thought, feeling, inspiration. Be it the expression of ones personal need to express something, to inspire or create in design something that fulfills a need or desire to society or another individual by that vehicle.
It is within the acceptable application of that where one is gauged by result as competent, or “good.”

Is there a place in the modern world? Quite so.. Both of physical practicality to universal connectivity.
.
A waste of time and resources? A generalized inquiry will generate a generalized answer, so I would say…no.
An artist should no more give up dreaming than anyone else. Keeping a foot on the ground and eyes in the stars is the key for anyone to realize their vision artistically or otherwise I think.
It is my job, my livelihood for over 20 years, and a very real one.

Everyone creates something. Some resulting of destruction, some preservation, even both in paradox.
However, I believe what you are getting at is the idea of one inspiring preservation by example in what they create.

Indeed the idea covers a lot of diciplines, mediums, applications, ect…
The word “sculpt” means “to carve stone”; however it connotes clay modeling, fabrication assembly, and much more in these times.

Thus is the idea of artist, artisan, craftsman, and such are intermingled, and as such there is quite an overlap of where the creative skill set of one can and is applied.




DavanKael -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 9:49:27 PM)

Hi, Aneirin----
Creativity, a trait that calls forth art or that defines an artist, is one of the things I value most higly in myself and in others. 
Inspiration is a beautiful thing to see manifest in another and to allow to come forth or to be called forth in one's self. 
While I do not find that I agree with all others on what art is or share the tastes of all others on what appeals, I find rather magical the creation, the bringing forth that manifests in these things called art, be they of any medium. 
  Davan




StrtbkNamdDesire -> RE: Artists (11/11/2008 10:19:00 PM)

A world without art sounds like some post-Apocalyptic wasteland. A cross between 'Blade Runner' and 'Idiocracy.' Nothing would be meaningful because society would have lost its way of expressing meaning; nothing would be beautiful because the words to describe beauty would be long gone. It would be a mind-numbing, expressionless glut of consumerism, or a stringent Communist-style workforce where creativity was suppressed.

No literature, no music, no dancing, no sculpture, no photography, no painting and drawing? No film and no fashion?
Society needs the two-way mirror of art to remind itself why life is meaningful. Of COURSE there is room for artists in the modern age. Without them, every way by which we define 'culture' would be lost.




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