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assertive kink - 11/12/2008 4:28:10 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		a guy approached me a couple of days ago from alt., he's into bedroom kink.  i explained that kink isnt the premis for me and that for me a man needs to have a natural dominance about him and more than a passing interest in the D/s dynamic.

he insists that he is assertive by nature and by that is clearly suggesting that i would find that enough.  he says other things like, he's chivalrous and considers women the weaker sex...!

theres an argument to be had here i feel.

for me anyway, in order to submit i need to feel that the guy is expecting submission, looking for it, rewarding and correcting it as we go.  if there is no expectation isnt that just vanilla with an assertive guy who likes whipping bottoms before sex.

i just cant seem to get a concrete argument going to explain why i know theres no point meeting up.

is being assertive enough. 

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 4:37:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Assertiveness is not enough.  But then neither is expectation of submission.
 
the.dark.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 4:42:46 AM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline 		did the meaning of chivalry change recently, or is this just one of those awesome occasions to quote "and they say chivalry is dead!"?

anyway, i don't require specific characteristics out of my partner, assertiveness is something i lack, and certainly a quality in others that meshes well with me, but if they don't understand the "me" part, it's not even close to enough.

and it doesn't sound to me as if he's even making the slightest effort to understand the "you", sounds to me like he's just giving you any random reason and excuse for why you should be wanting to have sex with and throw yourself at mr. vanilla twist, and that he just can't understand why the "weaker sex" is not doing so, a sure sign that he'll never figure things out.

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 11/12/2008 4:59:46 AM >

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 4:47:31 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		I found that my problem with Alt.com was it was mostly as you describe. Guys looking for some bedroom kink and often not as much experience as they were pretending to have. Mostly looking for a kinky fling.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 5:02:15 AM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		well, when i said expecting submission, i meant that within the remit of a relationship based on D/s, the point of being together is that i am submissive to him and he has a certain right to expect that ill at least try to be .

expecting me to be submissive to him simply because he's assertive doesnt compute.

and it doesn't sound to me as if he's even making the slightest effort to understand the "you", sounds to me like he's just giving you any random reason and excuse for why you should be wanting to have sex with mr. vanilla twist.
 
yes - thats it exactly, but how do you explain the difference between being assertive to your woman and dominant to your sub.
ive tried and im not getting through, not that thats a problem, just id like to clarify this for myself and then explain it to him properly. 

hey lushy, hugs to you.  alt is alot like that, but a couple of goodies have cropped up too.  just this guy doesnt get it and im really trying hard to let him down gently, i just cant seem to explain it to him -
 
 




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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 5:28:07 AM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3
yes - thats it exactly, but how do you explain the difference between being assertive to your woman and dominant to your sub.
ive tried and im not getting through, not that thats a problem, just id like to clarify this for myself and then explain it to him properly. 


being assertive is just the lack of inhibitions or hesitation in someone's actions in taking or seeking to acquire what a person wants, dominance and submission however requires a great deal more than just actions, and always from more than just one person.  in d/s things are more centered around both parties giving than anything else.

d/s isn't a characteristic, it's a lifestyle, a dynamic, a foundation for structure within a relationship, not just a description of "how people have sex".  apparently the biggest issue in regards to his not understanding that there is more to d/s than just "assertive sex" isn't in your explanation to him, but in that sex is all he wants, and that's all he's apparently willing to see in it, or get out of it. 

but i doubt that will make any sense to him either.

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 11/12/2008 5:43:03 AM >

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 5:34:30 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		See, my questions would be - is this person a friend?  Does their presence in your life prove a positive and do you see them on a regular basis?  If no, then lally - you don't have to explain anything to this man.  You tell them they aren't your type of dominant and if they continue to pester, you flat out ignore them. By continuing to explain your position you are giving them unwarrented attention and playing along.  I know you are trying to 'let him down gently' but if you continue the way you are, your going to be seen as a time waster.
 
You just say, Im not into you and leave him in his own juices to stew.
 
On the subject of expectation, I just don't expect anything from anyone from the start.  That is just my own personal thang.  I might have an idea in my head, but to expect a certain trait leads to disappointment.  I didn't expect Darcy to want or do anything.  I didn;t have expectations of dominance from him but of course I was totally cool when it occured.  Expectations for me, is planning and plans fall through sometimes.  I am simply more of a go with the flow kinda girl.  Yes I like to set up possibilities, but I don't make expectations of them.  So that is why I answered as I did.
 
the.dark.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 7:27:11 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

he insists that he is assertive by nature

Being assertive is enough.....if one in fact is assertive.

Assertive people never have to say they are assertive.  Assertiveness is always obvious.


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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 7:28:47 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

is being assertive enough. 


For some it is.  Is it enough for you?
 
John

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 7:33:22 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Actually as Rover said, what that guy is, what he projects and how he goes about it is a total wet dream of perfection for at least half the hetero sub chicks out there.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 8:02:18 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally3

well, when i said expecting submission, i meant that within the remit of a relationship based on D/s, the point of being together is that i am submissive to him and he has a certain right to expect that ill at least try to be .

expecting me to be submissive to him simply because he's assertive doesnt compute.

and it doesn't sound to me as if he's even making the slightest effort to understand the "you", sounds to me like he's just giving you any random reason and excuse for why you should be wanting to have sex with mr. vanilla twist.
 
yes - thats it exactly, but how do you explain the difference between being assertive to your woman and dominant to your sub.
ive tried and im not getting through, not that thats a problem, just id like to clarify this for myself and then explain it to him properly. 

hey lushy, hugs to you.  alt is alot like that, but a couple of goodies have cropped up too.  just this guy doesnt get it and im really trying hard to let him down gently, i just cant seem to explain it to him -
 
 





At least you're not getting the losers I got when there. There was one in september of 2007 that eqauted being submissive, with having a Borderline Personality Disorder. Read my profile and diagnosed me from his armchair.

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Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 8:14:02 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

he insists that he is assertive by nature

Being assertive is enough.....if one in fact is assertive.

Assertive people never have to say they are assertive.  Assertiveness is always obvious.




I wouldn't say it is always obvious, I'm quite assertive at work but if everything is running smoothly there is no reason for me to be assertive, when they don't meet my expectations, I put my foot down and tell them politely that it's not quite good enough and they do have to crank it up a notch or two. I think a lot of people confuse assertiveness with wearing "I am in command" on your sleeve at all times, for me that actually is trying a bit too hard, almost as if they have to convince themselves.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 8:25:23 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		This sort of cracks me up actually, since I encourage my girl to be assertive to enhance better communication.  Being assertive is by no means a measure of one being the Dominant partner or not in a relationship.   Anybody regardless of their orientation can assert themselves and their wants, needs and desires.  There are many submissives that assert themselves in their D/s relationships every day.

We are back to the debate about the characteristics of a true Dom in this thread though.  This is a little hard to define and measure.   What's most important is how people define their D/s relationships.  Because D/s is about the kind of relationship two people have with one another.

Hell, there are people with Dominant personalities that are submissive in a D/s relationship.  Some people confuse personality traits as being true Dominance and submission that it's not funny.  In fact, this is way many people ACT out certain behaviors or traits, just to put on some impressive show of bullshit at times.

I'm with "the.dark" on this one.  To expect a certain trait out of somebody can lead to dissapointment.  Go with the flow, perhaps set up some possibilities. D/s relationships do not happen overnight either and best not to force it.  Some people have this twisted notion that they can get complete strangers to submit, or that complete strangers want them to submit in 2.5 seconds flat.

For some people bedroom D/s and kink is all they are looking for, for others it is not enough.  If this guy is not into having a D/s relationship, it's something you really can't force out of him. 

Good luck..

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 9:28:50 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

i just cant seem to get a concrete argument going


Do you need one? You don't feel good about it, you don't do it. Not everything can or should be rationalized.

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 9:32:58 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

i just cant seem to get a concrete argument going


Do you need one? You don't feel good about it, you don't do it. Not everything can or should be rationalized.




lol!  Now where's the fun in that, I ask you? 

OP - I wonder why you continue to try and convince him that he's not what you need?  Does he have a clue about D/s?  If he's 'only' into bedroom kink, I'd think he either doesn't understand D/s or doesn't want to participate in it.  If you need it, then so be it ... say goodbye and good luck. 


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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 9:47:23 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		I can't understand all the mind fucking going on over the word assertive.  Why bother with this guy?  He is obviously not someone you find interesting.  Move on to the next more assertive stud.

BadOne

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 10:29:56 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:


I wouldn't say it is always obvious, I'm quite assertive at work but if everything is running smoothly there is no reason for me to be assertive, when they don't meet my expectations, I put my foot down and tell them politely that it's not quite good enough and they do have to crank it up a notch or two. I think a lot of people confuse assertiveness with wearing "I am in command" on your sleeve at all times, for me that actually is trying a bit too hard, almost as if they have to convince themselves.

You prove my point.  Assertiveness never needs to be stated--I am assuming, of course, that when you put your foot down you do not begin with some variant of "I am in command," but rather something more like "Go. Do."




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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 11:03:59 AM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		My cue to walk would have been when he said that females are the weaker sex.  WTF  It is apparent that he does not understand submission comes from great strength, not weakness.  But that's just my opinion, and I am not thinking on my feet today.  Need more coffee...

You need an argument to present to him?  What's wrong with the approach that many others have stated, "I'm not into you, peace out"? 

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 1:12:29 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am gong to refrain from all the comments and questions I could state/ask about how your perceptions may be colored by having been trained by a "mentor" dominant rather than another submissive.

Everyone has made sense in what they've said.  If it doesn't feel right, then don't meet him or continue with him.  If there is something that interests you, then explore further but be ready to explain what it is you want and why.  Another poster made a great point when they noted that some folks expect submission/domination in 5 seconds flat.  That can happen but not often.  Some folks take time to build into dominance and submission and expecting him to show "actions of dominance"...even if he were into full-blown D/s...is a set-up for him to fail;  what dominance can he show that meets with your approval...and will it meet with approval at all times during this getting-to-know-each-other period?  What actions will not?  This is a tricky enough area for dominants and submissives who readily admit to being into full-time D/s...now imagine the pitfalls for you...and for him...with someone who is not.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 11/12/2008 1:15:45 PM >

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RE: assertive kink - 11/12/2008 2:12:23 PM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		Not sure what exactly the question was in the op. (my fault :P )
But if you don't want him..you don't want him. No matter what he thinks

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