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RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 3:59:18 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		At first I thought you'd got the spelling wrong and were talking about these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinkajou

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:04:30 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrtbkNamdDesire

^^ LOL. Yes, Cali fails miserably in trying to maintain an image. And indeed- the Old Testament is pretty damn kinky.

So, what reception will I really get from the folks at the Synagogue? Will they accept me? If they find out I’m kinky, will they freak? (I know Catholics would, especially here, Christ onna cracker.)


I'm a kinky lapsed Jew... there are many 'lapsed Jews' (and Catholics :P). First of all, why would the synagogue find out? Unless you tell people or wear latex to a Shabbat service, I don't think they'd know. Jews may be pretty damn cool, but we're not psychic. :P
I agree with the 'looking to fit in' worry... Judaism is about a relationship with God, first and foremost. The awesome jokes/good food/worrisome mothers have simply become part of a larger 'culture.' Also, Reform Jews and Orthodox Jews are VEEERRRRY different. I've been to a reform gay synagogue and a super-Ortho synagogue where the services were completely in Hebrew. Judaism isn't an answer to anything but one's personal relationship to God. If you are searching anything other than that, I don't think religion is the right means to your end.


I want a liturgy and a dogma.  I want to study and learn my religion, and worship with others who believe as I do.  I do not want to feel estranged from Gawd because I am not adhering to the cathecism.
 
Thanks.
 
candystripper 

(in reply to StrtbkNamdDesire)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:05:35 PM   
Demspotis


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I consider that it's the "vanillas" who act unnaturally, by attempting to ignore the natural dominance and submission that is a part of almost all interactions in the real world, so they are the really "kinky" or "perverse" ones.

Now, Judaism as seen in its scriptures, is quite compatible in some ways with many things in BDSM. Some examples followe... in Hebrew, the same word "ba'al" means both "husband" and "master"; the Torah includes imposition of corporal punishment for various offences, including limits on how many strokes are permissible; slavery is a normal part of life in the Bible, and the Torah gives rules for how they are to be treated, including special rules for Jewish slaves owned by fellow Jews (the laws being far less restrictive on how non-Jewish slaves may be treated). And, unlike with many kinds of Christians, Judaism is not anti-sex: there are some (severe) restrictions on what can be done, and when it can be done... but when it is done, it is considered very important to do it WELL, that is, pleasurably.

As others have said, though, what you privately do with your partner is not something that should be coming up in ordinary conversation in houses of worship; in a conversion process, a rabbi might well want to know that the potential convert is not in the habit of violating Jewish sexual law, though. Such as sleeping with animals.... or Canaanites... ;-)

As for conversion: it's significantly easier in certain ways for women, especially since women don't have to submit to genital modification as part of the process. If you would want your conversion to be valid in Israel, you would need to go through the conversion process under strict Orthodox supervision, since Reform and Conservative conversions are not considered valid there. Orthodox conversions require full adherence to the Jewish lifestyle as defined in Torah and Talmud. It's not hard to find authoritative information online; there are many good Jewish websites out there with articles and lessons, and FAQ's by widely esteemed rabbis.

Incidentally, there is another brand of Judaism, called Karaite, that does not accept the Talmud, and adheres only, and strictly, to the rules given in the written Torah.

I'm not Jewish, BTW, but have been studying up on it fairly intensively in recent months, including studying Hebrew and Aramaic, for a variety of reasons, among them, the marriage of a close relative to a Jewish person, thus bringing that religion into the extended family.

Best wishes for your quest.
~Demspotis

(in reply to nelly33)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:11:49 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Candystripper

Grew up close to Cleveland, Ohio and was raised as a conservative Jew. I consider myself a pagan now, but that is another story. Ohio is pretty conservative, but go check out Kent, Ohio. That is where Kent State University is, and I am sure you will find like minded Jews and non-jews. Though I wasn't into Kink back in - the-day, I did hang out with a lot of lesbians and other different lifestyle people. Of course that way in the 70's. Kent has normally been a progressive college town. A lot of pagan people there as well.

Best of luck.
oceanwynds

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:18:14 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33

As a non-practicing Jew, but somebody who still relates to it culturally, I think it's pretty important to remember that being Jewish in vanilla life doesn't really help you fit in anywhere.  I don't know anything specific about Cleveland, but if it is anything like Buffalo, there isn't really a big Jewish community outside of academia.  In addition to the people that are bigoted against Jews, it isn't like people who are Jewish are going to like you because you are "one of them."  As for the kink thing, I agree with BKSir, and SweatPea... it really shouldn't come into play unless you invite it too.


I'm well aware of anti-semiticsm.  Here there seems to be a predominately Eastern European population.  My sis in law told me she was Bohemian one evening at dinner, and I asked her how it was to be part of the Beat Generation.  LOL.  Man, was she ever cheesed off.  Apparently the Czech Republic is an amalgamation of countries, which I did not know.
 
Geographic matters are hardly my strong suit, LOL...I get lost in my own house.
 
I'm not plugged in to the law professors here in Cleveland.  When I have worked with these folks in the past, it's been by dint of reputation.  I didn't attend law school in Cleveland, so I don't know.
 
candystripper 

(in reply to nelly33)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:34:39 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		CandyStrippeer there is another group of Jewish people called Renewal Jews. Look it up on the internet. There is a group I believe in Cleveland, Ohio. Was looking into a few years back.

oceanwynds

(in reply to oceanwynds)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 4:53:14 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Is this the book you meant, oceanwynds?
 
The Jewish Catalog
 
Thanks very much, everyone. 
 
candystripper

(in reply to oceanwynds)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 5:00:20 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Shit, I thought this thread was gonna be about Kinky Friedman and The Texas Jewboys. I love Kinky !

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to oceanwynds)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 5:41:38 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

More than likely you will be turned away by the Rabbi, it is common to be turned away three times prior to their allowing you to even begin the process.  Depending on the synagogue, and whether it is orthodox, reform, or conservative, it takes about a year to convert.  


With all due respect, where on earth did you hear that?  I have never heard that in my life!   It is entirely up to the individual Rabbi whether or not to accept you as a potential convert.  But your reason has to be a valid one. Why do you feel you want to be a Jew?  THAT is the question you need to ponder and be ready to answer sincerely.

As for whether you will be accepted? I have found that if you immerse yourself, take whatever classes they offer, attend whatever functions they are having and volunteer alot, I feel at home very quickly.  It's no different than any other group of people.  If you play nicely with others and generally get along well with people, then yes you will be accepted..  I was very active in my Temple for a long time.  Attended many functions, helped tremendously with fundraising and simply thought it best not to mention my kinks to the Rabbi or any other Temple members..

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 11/12/2008 5:44:15 PM >

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 5:47:32 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I converted to Judaism and used to live near Cleveland.  Cleveland has a pretty large and well established Jewish community.  If you'd like to contact me on the other side, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. 


_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 6:30:41 PM   
janigrey


Posts: 126
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Roselaure - you beat me to it...
but I want to state it again...
There is a large and thriving jewish community in Cleveland...
There is a not so large but still thriving community about 65 miles south in Youngstown.

(in reply to Roselaure)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 6:48:33 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

So, what reception will I really get from the folks at the Synagogue?  Will they accept me? 

Depends on the synagogue. I am going through my process of conversion and, quite frankly, that's difficult enough. I haven't felt the need bring up my kinkiness on top of everything else and it really hasn't come up in conversation at all.
 
quote:


 If they find out I’m kinky, will they freak?  (I know Catholics would, especially here, Christ onna cracker.)
 

Depends on the people.
quote:


Anyone here Jewish?

*waves* Hi!!
quote:


  If’n you’re not comfy discussing the ins and outs, I understand…there’s a good deal of folks hating on one another going around.  Maybe you could recommend a Message Board for kinky Jews?
 


I don't know of one but if you find one, let me know.



_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 6:52:58 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

More than likely you will be turned away by the Rabbi, it is common to be turned away three times prior to their allowing you to even begin the process.  Depending on the synagogue, and whether it is orthodox, reform, or conservative, it takes about a year to convert.  


With all due respect, where on earth did you hear that?  I have never heard that in my life!   It is entirely up to the individual Rabbi whether or not to accept you as a potential convert.  But your reason has to be a valid one. Why do you feel you want to be a Jew?  THAT is the question you need to ponder and be ready to answer sincerely.

As for whether you will be accepted? I have found that if you immerse yourself, take whatever classes they offer, attend whatever functions they are having and volunteer alot, I feel at home very quickly.  It's no different than any other group of people.  If you play nicely with others and generally get along well with people, then yes you will be accepted..  I was very active in my Temple for a long time.  Attended many functions, helped tremendously with fundraising and simply thought it best not to mention my kinks to the Rabbi or any other Temple members..


Actually being turned away *is* common - in theory anyway. Offically, all converts are supposed to be discouraged from entering into Judaism because it is a hard road and not one to tred lightly. Throughout my conversation I have read this in the literature but have yet to be "offically" turned away, though I did have a very sweet Othrodox girl smile at me and go "Well, I'm offically discouraging you - now would you like to borrow one of my books on Judaism?".

Edited for correction and to add for the history buffs: Being turned away seems to be holdover from times when conversion to Judaism meant a death sentance both for the convert and those who assisted them.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/12/2008 6:58:07 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 6:55:07 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm Jewish both by heritage and by active religion.

Being kinky and being Jewish are two facets of me but I keep them apart.  At my previous synagogue, there were two women who knew I was a kinkster (one I met on alt), and one suspected, but I didn't advertise it.

That bit about converts not being welcomed - that was true in some temples decades ago, but you'd have a hard time now finding one that doesn't welcome converts today.



_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to janigrey)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 7:33:48 PM   
SilentSadistic1


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		It depends. I live in S. Fla which has a large jewish community and I've met and played with some very kinky jews.

Ohio I have never been but one of my ex's moved there for awhile and she told me she had never seen such a conservative, backwoods place.

As for racism and jews. I have had many wonderful and accepting jewish friends who treat me like family and the color of my skin doesn't matter a damn to them. However I have encountered some of the most shocking racism from some older jews. Some jews I've known would not acknowledge an ethiopian jew as one of their own. They wouldn't consider an african a real jew. These are definitely in the minority and like all  groups you will find some closeminded individuals. I'm just saying you will probably meet widely diverging viewpoints.

If you want to do it then go for it. You will definitely meet jews you will feel comfortable with though coming out to ones in the synagogue might not be the way to go. :)

(in reply to ThundersCry)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 7:38:21 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Is it necessary to out your sexual proclivities to the Rabbi?  Is this a common thing?  Seems weird to me.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SilentSadistic1)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 7:45:46 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline 		Candy - i think OH is just a wacky place that creates wacky ppl.  I swear I'll never date another man from Ohio.  Met one of my ex's there and he played games like "hide the poo".  Where literally at a party, some one would poo some where... and it was hide the poo........ and hide the kid....... but not an actual kid.. but semen...

and his favorite line was....... "does this smell infected?"

Yeah...... ohio ppl = wierd.

(and yes I've been to the state, stayed in the state for while, and know several natives, and of course met many random ppl)

_____________________________

I'm pretty sure I've turned into a bitter bitch with a huge shovel. One of these days I'm going to exchange the shovel for a hoe

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 7:46:00 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Is it necessary to out your sexual proclivities to the Rabbi?  Is this a common thing?  Seems weird to me.


Depends on how a person feels about it. Judaism does have rules and guidelines for sex, from everything to the circumstances to what forms of birth control are acceptable due to the religious laws of not altering the body. A person might feel the need to make sure that what they do is kosher or see how they can make it kosher.

I don't but just putting it out there.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 8:01:19 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

So, what reception will I really get from the folks at the Synagogue?  Will they accept me?  If they find out I’m kinky, will they freak?  (I know Catholics would, especially here, Christ onna cracker.)


Why not do one thing at a time.  Become the best Jewish practitioner you can and not rock the boat.  Why on earth would your sex life ever come up at all?  Why even consider putting others in awkward situations to even want to make a decision to accept you or freak (as you say) at all.  Can't you even tone it down a bit long enough to learn, discuss and pray without being in an all fire hurry to worry about what they will think about your personal traits.
Maybe until you have the maturity level to forget about kink and what people think for a day and you can be be fully and genuinely immersed in Judiasm, you will not be recognized as 'becoming faithful' to any God. 

Do you hope to become a faithful Jew or use Judiasm as a springboard for finding a mate/friends of bdsm-kind?  Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

Interesting thoughts on the subject: "The yetzer ra is more difficult to define, because there are many different ideas about it.  It is not a desire to do evil in the way we normally think of it in Western society:  a desire to cause senseless harm.  Rather, it is usually conceived as the selfish nature, the desire to satisfy personal needs (food, shelter, sex, etc.) without regard for the moral consequences of fulfilling those desires." courtesy of: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/human.htm






_____________________________

It hurts.....that you call me a masochist


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Kinky Jews - 11/12/2008 8:01:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		OH good grief, she's ENTITLED to her prejudice so that makes it all ok....

Try being a Jew in Austin :) 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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