RE: disappointed....

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CalifChick -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 3:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Why is the OP's husband's integrity NOT the issue? Why is her insecurity the issue? Because we have yet to hear from the OP's Husband you only have one side of the story but you are ready to have the Man Branded for a crime you may not know the back story on. Branded? A crime? All I saw was a promise he didn't bother to keep, one that was easy to keep. I don't need a backstory. I don't need to know why he made the promise. I don't need to hear from him everything that happened. I'm not the one taking this to the extreme of 45 minutes of freaking-out insecurity, of deep-seated trust issues... there are others around here bringing up all sorts of backstory possibilities that in my (NSH) opinion, are irrelevant. Cali

pixidustpet -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:10:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah RealSub, When it comes to discussions of Men vs. Women I find that no matter how valid my point is, no matter how well thought out it is, it gets heard as something completely different. I have since then learned that I would rather Slam My Dick in a Buick Skylark driver side door than enter into an OPEN discussion on how I feel on the Mars Venus Debate. If you wish you are more than welcome to drop me a C-mail and I will give you my somewhat Chauninistic view on this subject, but I learned my lesson about posting such things in open forum. Steel i read this reply to TheEngineer. he said (this is a quote) "i am a pig. i am male. begins making pig sounds now, dont expect me to be anything less." kitten, giggling

pixidustpet -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:31:21 PM)
after reading the whole thread...... i've been married to mr "time is no object to me! i live by no clock!" and mr "i'm calling if i'm so much as five minutes late!"...and neither one is a basket of roses to live with. i agree that if there are plans made, and someone is not considerate of those....its irritating. i agree that living with someone who says "lets get ready and go (fill in the blank)" and you get up and get ready and then stand there another 20 minutes while he fiddldefarts around and then looks at you and says "why are you just standing there?!!! its not like we're punching a timeclock!!" (he and i didnt go to movies. at all.) yeah, that's a pain in the arse. but when its my issues about timekeeping....i express "hey, it bothers me when this happens" and he either changes or he doesnt. or as TheEngineer told me when i was getting uppity (in jest) the other night, "look, little girl. you are not the dominant. knock that shit off." i have the right to tell him about my insecurities, the responsibility to tell him when it affects our day-to-day relationship. i then need to let it go. because as long as things are getting done, and our world is still rolling smoothly, its all just a "fart in the wind" as my grandmother would say. kitten, who needs a nap

SteelofUtah -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:31:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Branded? A crime? All I saw was a promise he didn't bother to keep, one that was easy to keep. I don't need a backstory. I don't need to know why he made the promise. I don't need to hear from him everything that happened. I'm not the one taking this to the extreme of 45 minutes of freaking-out insecurity, of deep-seated trust issues... there are others around here bringing up all sorts of backstory possibilities that in my (NSH) opinion, are irrelevant. Cali Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that. Steel

kyraofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:42:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze From what I understood, he asked her to wait for him at a certain time and showed up 2 hours later and this has happened quite a few times in the past, I must have missed it. Where did she say in this thread that he was 2 hours late? Knight's Kyra

kyraofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:45:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It's incredibly rude to say to his wife that he'll be home by 6:30 and they'll go to the movies, and then he waltzes in two hours late because he ran into someone who is not that important to him and she's been stood up again. I must be reading the wrong thread.. where did she say that they were going to the movies or even that they were going out and that he was two hours late? Knight's Kyra

LadyConstanze -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:48:28 PM)
quote: i have a lot of issues from things that have happened to me in my life that prevent me from trusting very easily...this issue manifests itself in my need for Him to do as He promises. no matter how big or small the actual thing is that He says He will do, i absolutly need Him to carry through on it. if He doesn't, i can't let it go. He knows this about me...and is very careful about what He says He will do because He doesn't want to hurt me. The incident in particular that started all of this was He told me He would be home at a certain time....mind you He picked the time, not me.......He did not come home at that time....He came home late.... right before He left i said, "this isn't going to be a situation where you lose track of time, end up seeing someone...have a conversation...then call me later and say, gee I'm sorry...I'm on my way now..." ..and He said no, that He would only stay for X amount of time, and he would be home at exactly X time and i should be ready for Him when He got home. well what happend? exactly as i predicted....He ran into someone as He was leaving...and bam..there goes the time.... this is not a matter of Him intentionally hurting me...this is a matter of Him being completly scatter brained and not thinking. Doesn't exactly give the 2 hours but I guess it is a fair guess, maybe the thread starter could clarify the time for us but I would assume that if it is 10 to 30 minutes it possibly wouldn't be worth mentioning. I'm simply assuming here, but running into somebody, getting to talk, losing track of time would be at least 1 hour or possibly 2.

kyraofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:53:24 PM)
Considering that she says she "absolutely needs him to carry through" on what he says he will do no matter "how big or small" I think making an assumption about how late he was is irresponsible. Maybe it was two hours, but maybe it was only ten minutes. My dad considered me late if I didn't show up at least five minutes before I was told to show up. Since we have absolutely no idea what is late to her and she already says 'no matter how big or small' it could just as easily have been 10 minutes late. Knight's Kyra

Kalista07 -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 4:57:27 PM)
Damn.....i've managed to stay away from this thread for two whole days until now..... However, here i am nonetheless. The entire time i've been reading this thread one phrase keeps running through my mind, "personal accountability". Isn't that what most issues in most people's lives come down to? Really, does it matter what He has done, hasn't done, has said, hasn't said? In my book, no. Actually the way i try and live my life it doesn't matter what anyone else does, i'm responsible for my responses. Only i have the power to control my responses, my emotions, my feelings. When i first moved in with Him i still struggled to trust Him, i knew in my mind He had never acted anything less than completly trustworthy. Finally, it hit me. If i wanted to continue to act like He was going to fuck anything else that walked i could....And frankly, despite the power control there was nothing He could do to stop that. But, each and every morning i got up for a few months i MADE A DECISION. That decision was to trust Him. That decision was that He was trustworthy, and that until i had some hard evidence that He was not trustworthy i was going to act as if i believed He was 100% trustworthy. From then on things became a little less muddied between us. Could just be me though. Many times i realize i'm a very simplistic person and have to keep things simple for me. At the end of the day, i can not control anyone else's actions, activities, or behaviors. But, i can and do chose to control mine. Kali

LadyConstanze -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 5:02:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists Considering that she says she "absolutely needs him to carry through" on what he says he will do no matter "how big or small" I think making an assumption about how late he was is irresponsible. Maybe it was two hours, but maybe it was only ten minutes. My dad considered me late if I didn't show up at least five minutes before I was told to show up. Since we have absolutely no idea what is late to her and she already says 'no matter how big or small' it could just as easily have been 10 minutes late. Knight's Kyra Well, only if he has very brief conversations with people he meets....

KnightofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 6:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I see it as the BIGGEST problem is that he made a promise and did not keep it (and apparently has done so over and over). The contents of that promise are irrelevant at this point (but I'll get to that point in a minute). This can be passive-aggressive; it can also be merely thoughtless (like the steering wheel thing). Why is he making promises that he is not doing everything in his power to keep?? You make a promise, you know it's important, you keep it. End of story actually.. You are making an assumption that the given situation was a promise made by him. She did indicate what promises mean to her.. but I don't see any point that she stated that He promised to be home. In fact, it might be she understands his words as a promise regardless of what he actually states. " I will be home at 6" she understands.. "He is promising to be home at 6". Now.. I think the idea of the promise is a red herring...and irrelevant to the issue. Fact is... all that matters is he stated "I will be home at 6" Now... and he has repeatedfully failed to live up to these statements. She even challanged his ability to actually do what he said he would do... he insisted and well late again. As Kyra stated... the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Unless... there is something that can motivated the person to a different choice of behavior. Sorry.. words are cheap... Unless the OP can show or see something that demonstrates that the future behavior is going to be different than the past... I think it is HIGHLY unrealistic to expect anything but the past behavior to repeat.. regardless of what his cheap words state. Again.. It doesn't matter what Cheap words are... regardless if He actually promised or not.. what matters was it realistic to expect any change of behavior... and I don't see words as an enough to change repeated behaviors. quote: In your instance, he failed to make a plan on what to do if he ran into someone he wanted to talk to. He should have planned on (and followed thru with) calling you to let you know what was going on. I disagree... I think his mistake is stating that he will be home by X when he has shown no ability to do it in the first place. I think it was her mistake thinking he would be home by X when has shown no ability to do it in the first place. You can't run until you learn to walk.. you can't walk until you learn to crawl... and you can't crawl until your muscles have the strength to move you. I think they both need to get realisitic of what they are capable of.

KnightofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 6:30:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah So far people have made up little stories as to the extent that this Man has been late. Some make it sound like she was waiting by the door for hours awaiting his arrival, others make it sound like he walked in at 10:02 and she freaked because he was expected at 10:00 o'clock sharp. little stories.. and making his words a promise which may or may Not be true.

KnightofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 6:41:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Why is the OP's husband's integrity NOT the issue? Why is her insecurity the issue? Maybe you should re-read what the OP has stated quote: a few points....when i said that what He did may not be a big deal to others i really meant that....He has NOT abused me physically..nor has He cheated on me...in the end the issue is a matter of not doing something that He said He would. mmmmmmmmmmmm I think it is pretty clear she doesn't feel abused or that he is cheating on her.... so.. gosh call me stupid.. but it doesn't appear that integrity is an issue. I think the issue is rather clear for her.. He isn't doing what he said he would do! quote: i have a lot of issues from things that have happened to me in my life that prevent me from trusting very easily...this issue manifests itself in my need for Him to do as He promises. no matter how big or small the actual thing is that He says He will do, i absolutly need Him to carry through on it. if He doesn't, i can't let it go. He knows this about me...and is very careful about what He says He will do because He doesn't want to hurt me. The incident in particular that started all of this was He told me He would be home at a certain time....mind you He picked the time, not me.......He did not come home at that time....He came home late.... This shares something of the issue... but I fail to see where he promised her... she only expresses how she feels when he makes promises. Two very seperate issues here the first bolded statement expresses how she feels when when he promises... the second bolded statement is she saying that he would do X. Frankly... this doesn't mean it's a promise... but it might mean it was.. it might mean she seen it as one it might mean it wasn't. WE don't know.. to assume is reckless and stupid! quote: right before He left i said, "this isn't going to be a situation where you lose track of time, end up seeing someone...have a conversation...then call me later and say, gee I'm sorry...I'm on my way now..." ..and He said no, that He would only stay for X amount of time, and he would be home at exactly X time and i should be ready for Him when He got home. yup....more words of what he was going to do... and even her expressing doubts that he would do it... mmmmmmmmm why is this a promise... I see it as unrealistic expectations on both their parts.

CalifChick -> RE: disappointed.... (11/14/2008 9:03:36 PM)
Thank you Knight, I mistook "do as he promises" as that he did promise. You're correct, she never said that. Cali

DesFIP -> RE: disappointed.... (11/15/2008 11:13:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: a few points....when i said that what He did may not be a big deal to others i really meant that....He has NOT abused me physically..nor has He cheated on me...in the end the issue is a matter of not doing something that He said He would. mmmmmmmmmmmm I think it is pretty clear she doesn't feel abused or that he is cheating on her.... so.. gosh call me stupid.. but it doesn't appear that integrity is an issue. I think the issue is rather clear for her.. He isn't doing what he said he would do! I'm not sure how you turn not doing what he said he would do to mean he is still keeping his word. He said he would do something and then doesn't do it. That's about as clear an example of no personal integrity as you can find. Yes he could be torturing kittens instead of talking to friends without feeling that he owes her the decency of a phone call but the fact that he isn't doing anything bad is not the same as him doing something good. He is giving his word repeatedly without keeping it. Now, if he has this problem throughout his life, late to work, etc then I'd suggest ADHD or such as the root cause. But since the op indicates it solely happens in their interpersonal relationship, not at work, not with his family, not with friends, there really isn't any other inference to draw except that he doesn't think he has to keep his word to her, that she isn't someone important enough to deserve this even though others are. And that attitude, being shown repeatedly that you aren't of value is not one that garners increased trust and love and submission but instead loses it. He knows what he has to lose and he doesn't care. And that's sad.

KnightofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/15/2008 1:09:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP He knows what he has to lose and he doesn't care. And that's sad. what is sad is people that make wild claims of what has occurred without any facts that actually speak to the whole idea of integrity.. or lack there of.. you know dramatic comments like.. quote: It's incredibly rude to say to his wife that he'll be home by 6:30 and they'll go to the movies, and then he waltzes in two hours late because he ran into someone who is not that important to him and she's been stood up again Which have absolutely no basis of truth when one actually considers the facts stated by the OP. Comments like this that try to claim lack of integrity is very much like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe things are more than sad.. maybe there just pathetic!

KnightofMists -> RE: disappointed.... (11/15/2008 1:13:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Thank you Knight, I mistook "do as he promises" as that he did promise. You're correct, she never said that. No she didn't... but I suspect she took it that way regardless. To me... it does come to having realistic expecation of being able to do what one says they will do. I can't say that I think very highly of her Master.. but I don't know all the details.. only her side of the story and I find one side doesn't make the facts only ones givin perception of the facts. In the end.. this is an issue they need to deal with. I think it is rather foolhardy to give the typical response of leave him that one sees... but I do believe they both have to take smaller steps.

SimplyMichael -> RE: disappointed.... (11/15/2008 1:30:13 PM)
This is an issue I have run into on both sides. When I say I will be someplace at a certain time, I mean ABOUT a certain time. Of course if being there at a certain time MATTERS (to me of course) like watching a movie, then you need to be there early. However, if you are coming home from work the actualy timing often DOESN'T matter (again, to ME) However, some people hear that as "if I mention casually I will be somewhere at 6pm" they don't hear the casual, they hear "I will show you I am important by being here at 5:59" which isn't what I said. Clearly there is a problem, what is more important, assigning blame or working together to find a way to work better together?

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: disappointed.... (11/15/2008 7:23:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael This is an issue I have run into on both sides. When I say I will be someplace at a certain time, I mean ABOUT a certain time. Of course if being there at a certain time MATTERS (to me of course) like watching a movie, then you need to be there early. However, if you are coming home from work the actualy timing often DOESN'T matter (again, to ME) However, some people hear that as "if I mention casually I will be somewhere at 6pm" they don't hear the casual, they hear "I will show you I am important by being here at 5:59" which isn't what I said. Clearly there is a problem, what is more important, assigning blame or working together to find a way to work better together? That statement I underlined wasn't clear to me. Knowing you as I do, I think you mean "I will show you that you are important to me by being here at 5:59" but I could be wrong.. To the OP- You could very well be describing me. My lateness became an issue between Michael and I very quickly. He made it very clear on a very consistant basis that my lateness needed to stop. I have made great strides towards this because I know how important it is to him. I'm not 100% on time all the time yet, but he knows that it's a struggle for me and the way that he helps me along works for me. I am trying to work on this issue with my ex husband also. This is a hot button issue between my ex husband and I and was one of the underlying factors in the demise of our marriage. I had different motivations for the extreme lateness at different times. Some purposeful, some due to my ADHD.. I can tell you this. You learn quickly where you can get away with this behavior and where you cannot get away with it, just as in any other type of boundary testing behavior. Actions need to match words. Without that, you risk everything..

WyldHrt -> RE: disappointed.... (11/16/2008 2:04:18 AM)
There really isn't enough information here to get a clear picture of the situation, but there rarely is as we only get to hear one side of the story as regards relationship issues. That said, a few thoughts (colored by my own experiences, of course): I don't think it really matters whether he actually said the words "I promise", as that is not the point. According to the OP, he told her that he would arrive at a specific time, and instructed her to be "ready and waiting" for him. If, knowing himself, he knew he would likely be distracted and come home late, why give a specific time with specific instructions? For me, "I will be home sometime after 6, be ready and waiting" is very different from "I will be home at 6, be ready and waiting". If he shows up at 9, the former wouldn't bother me at all, but the latter would piss me off, esp if it was habitual. Sorry Steel, but I disagree. The OP never said that she thought he was cheating, just that it is important to her that he follow through when he says that he will do something. Yes, part of that is her issue, but how often do we see on these boards advice like, "Don't threaten a punishment that you won't follow through with"? If it is good advice for punishment, isn't the flip side "Don't make promises that you can't/won't keep"? Placating has it's place for some, I suppose, but it smacks of avoidance to me. In a D/s context, it leads me to wonder, who is in charge? For DesFip- I agree to a point. Having played "bottom rung" on my partner's priority ladder for several years (I came somewhere after "family", friends, acquaintences, and people he met at RenFaires), I can say that it truly sucks when everyone who isn't you is afforded common courtesy while you are not. That said, I didn't see that in anything the OP posted, although it wouldn't surprise me. If it is the case that his timekeeping skills only lack when it comes to her, I agree that there is a deeper problem there.

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