RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!!

RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/21/2005 9:31:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha People don't need mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. I don't think I could ever work up the hubris to say that because I'm naturally talented, I don't need to learn. This is like saying that because someone is born with an instinctive talent for baseball, they don't need a coach-- just hand hir a ball, bat and glove and xhe'll make it to the Majors.... or saying that an individual who is musically talented and loves the piano doesn't need a teacher. Just sit hir at the keyboard and xhe'll understand it naturally. All of us need to learn, and honestly, the best way to learn is to learn from a teacher that you respect -- no matter what your field of skill. I know that I am continuously looking for mentors, to help me to understand the wide variety of things in the world that I don't understand, and to help me hone my skills, and help me keep from deluding myself when I've lost sight of something important, just because I didn't really -want- to see it. Lady Zephyr I agree with you in that everyone needs to learn.... but the techniques one needs to learn is as varied as what a person needs to learn. Someone with a natural skill/talent in anything may need different training than one whose skills/talents are less refined/natural. Part of the process of training is determining the starting point of the training itself. Mentorship/coaching is indeed an important approach in training oneself to be better at a particular skill/talent or area of knowledge. Depending on the need, this mentorship can be both informal or formal. However, mentorship be it formalized or informal is a direct approach to learning. We also can learn indirectly thur observations of others. Many individuals that attend play parties come away from the experience better equipment to effectively carry out some minor techinques just by the observations they gain at the party. We also learn from our introspective view of the experience we have had. Discussing these experiences with those that have shared them. Often our own perspectives of a shared experience is different from another and this different perspective can be a source of great learning. I am very much against the idea that decision to have or not have mentorship be dependent on a persons "built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate" This idea says nothing specifically of what needs to be learned in the first place. There is alot of natural talented Surgeon's out there... I am not so sure that I want any of them self-taught guru's operating on me... I don't think anyone would. The difficultiy level and effort required to learn a particular skill inconjuction with the person's learning abilities and skills sets are a better read on what or if specific mentorship would be needed and to what degree. This idea of the all powerful natural Dom/me is rather romantic but not very realistic or practical. If everyone needs some kind of mentorship, then what is going on with the thousands of couples that practice safe, sane consensual BDSM play in places where there is no kinky community and no internet? What about the people who practiced BDSM 500 years ago? Did they all have a mentor? Was their play less fulfilling? Was it less safe? One could argue that the proliferation of "ideas" and "suggestions" for edgier play on the Internet just gives inexperienced people motivation to engage in acts they clearly cannot handle. I'm not saying that "a natural, instinct-driven desire to dominate" is the only thing a dominant needs; I'm saying that having this foundation is not something that can be taught or mentored and it's probably the most critical part of the entire mix. The reason it's the most important part is because from an early age a dominant must learn to express his/her desire in a way that does not harm/scare their partner. They immediately have to learn the process of communication, safety, reading people, and getting in touch with their own motivations. What separates us (dominants) from sociopathic sadists is that we possess a high level of compassion, morality and need for consent -- combined with an overwhelming desire to do the things that we have an undescibably lust for. This balancing act that we learn is the basis for the entire concept of safe and consensual BDSM. If we have a partner we like, we want badly to express our dominant lust but at the same time do not want to hurt them or do anything that will make them not like us, not trust us, or run away from us. I use basic terms because at the age these thoughts are with us, that's about how simple it boils down to. The assumption that people will jump right into cutting, breath control, caning that leaves welts or flogging that breaks skin doesn't even really have anything to do with the scenario described above because when a person is learning to naturally express their dominance I'd argue that it's 90% NOTHING to do with toys -- it's with whatever natural things are available and match our fantasies at that time. Whether or not a person is reckless, dangerous or voluntarily ignorant is a reflection of their entire moral character, not "how they learned to do BDSM." My thoughts are that those of us that have lived with a sadistic desire and had to learn how to express it in a safe, loving way are not the ones at risk to randomly start attempting acts that are too dangerous or require research before doing them. In many cases, I think we made our "mistakes" (if you can call them that) and had our growing pains when messing around with light bondage, making a blindfold too tight, pulling hair a little too hard and apologizing afterward, getting a little too "intense" with the attitude/demeanor, leaving a small bite mark/hickey in a place that would embarrass our partner the next day at class. I'd much rather "learn the ropes" when play is young and innocent, and the only expectations are "how can I satisfy my desire and not harm my partner." Akasha

Driver1961 -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/21/2005 10:06:32 AM)
Excellent developing thread here guys n' gals! I'm pretty exhausted at present (burning the candle at both ends and of course doing the dripping wax bit the last couple of days) but believe I have read correctly understood all previous comments. What really concerns me as a Dom of only 12 months Lifestyle practice is the consequences of 'unprepared for results/outcomes from play). Consider an extreme of healing thru 'subspacing'.... I was unaware of this and had it occur deeply upon first 'connective dynamic' play. Every person should know enough about themselves to know their 'bottom lines' and the 'conequences/results ' before plunging into any physical/mental action in life, equally important in BDSM. I was fortunate (in some ways) to have my first sub (that I introduced to Lifestyle) 'subspace' very easily with our connection. The joy of and psychological healing from 'subspacing' could be equally likened to good and bad LSD trips. Thankfully I was capable enough (though totally freaked myself) to allow my first sub to 'heal' positively with her initial spacing. I sought at the time to obtain first hand information on how to better react and was unable to find anyone to talk with. (I didnt know of CollarMe and the alt/ternative site ignored me, even with direct pleas to so called exprienced Dom/mes alike. ) The difficulty I had obtaining help is very relevant to the original post here. One of my 'Preciousess' (I'm now poly by accident) spaces easily during pain. W/we often joke she is a painslut, but jokes aside.......she can be very easily damaged mentally and physically by so called Dom/mes who do the talk but 'trip' over themselves in their walk. She imediately'shuts down' in spacing during excessive pain; believing she is yelling but infact emits no sounds. It takes very careful observations of her reactions to establish her pain thresh-holds. The trust between us is deep for her to continue positively exploring her desires. In short there is no quick answer to professionalism vs 'blindfolded good and bad learning' without a concerted effort to have quality and quick informative information at some monetary cost for the infrastructure. If there is anyone with applicable sites etc that offer this info- please email me direct. This info should be available quickly for anyone that was in a similar position to me 12 months ago. I would never have imagined nor believed about 'sub-spacing' until it occured in my presence and I know others in the Lifestyle are sceptical of my challenging yet immensely rewarding experiences with it. I am a Sir, I will never own a slave. I will always seek the D/s dynamic, yet this physchological, self produced body drug eurphorea will always influence all 'serious practicioners' of BDSM Lifestyles and yet so little appears to be clearly available for informative reference. Strangely I hope that another reader may educate me on where I have wasted time speaking of this by directing me to informations that is clearly available. A fresh , over the top? but practical thought is that every BDSM related site could collaborate to issue 'Warnings' about Subspacing (Like warnings about the possible dangers of cigarette smoking) and provide links to a site jointly funded on 'subspacing' it's good and bad consequences and other 'bottom line' truly 'nuts n' bolts' information. Dips Lid, smiles broadly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Departs...................

KnightofMists -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/21/2005 12:06:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha People don't need mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. Your quote Not mine! This statement that is an absolute... an absolute that I don't agree with and never will.. it's narrow and foolish.... quote: If everyone needs some kind of mentorship, then what is going on with the thousands of couples that practice safe, sane consensual BDSM play in places where there is no kinky community and no internet? I never said that everyone need some kind of mentorship! I said quote: The difficultiy level and effort required to learn a particular skill inconjuction with the person's learning abilities and skills sets are a better read on what or if specific mentorship would be needed and to what degree. You seem to miss the "IF" in the statement... and also seem to miss that what is being learned and the abilities of the person in question are factors to determine if one should seek mentorship or not. It's a personal choice not a need! quote: What about the people who practiced BDSM 500 years ago? Did they all have a mentor? Was their play less fulfilling? Was it less safe? One could argue that the proliferation of "ideas" and "suggestions" for edgier play on the Internet just gives inexperienced people motivation to engage in acts they clearly cannot handle. I wouldn't have a clue what people did 500 years ago in their bedrooms...I am not that old... and couldn't tell you what or how people learned what they learned from those experiences... but if you have some actual experiences or facts that can answer those questions... I would love to see them. quote: I'm not saying that "a natural, instinct-driven desire to dominate" is the only thing a dominant needs; I'm saying that having this foundation is not something that can be taught or mentored and it's probably the most critical part of the entire mix. I understand that... I also would agree with you... what is within a person's character/personality/drives or whatever term you like to use is critical to the mix.... but then so is the desire to actually exercise that which is within... All the potential/raw talent/natural ability in the world is meaningless unless it is put into action. Dominance without results is nothing but hot air. However, you very specifically stated as noted above quote: People don't need mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. I think I my opinion of this kind of statement rather clear! quote: The reason it's the most important part is because from an early age a dominant must learn to express his/her desire in a way that does not harm/scare their partner. They immediately have to learn the process of communication, safety, reading people, and getting in touch with their own motivations. What separates us (dominants) from sociopathic sadists is that we possess a high level of compassion, morality and need for consent -- combined with an overwhelming desire to do the things that we have an undescibably lust for. These are your opinions... some of which I would agree with... but their are other reasons as well... not all reasons are appliciable to every "so-called" natural Dominant. The combinations of experiences, learning, values, natural tendencies and many others will have different impacts upon different people. There is no road map that is suited to every person wanting to be an effective Dominant. But there are building blocks and you have expressed only a few. quote: This balancing act that we learn is the basis for the entire concept of safe and consensual BDSM. If we have a partner we like, we want badly to express our dominant lust but at the same time do not want to hurt them or do anything that will make them not like us, not trust us, or run away from us. I use basic terms because at the age these thoughts are with us, that's about how simple it boils down to I always find it interesting that people think it is a balance act to do the things we do and not be that sociopath. Well I balance nothing... I am not even on the same continuum... my motivations, my drives my morality are all different, even my physical make up is different, my experiences. I don't balance anything ... I just be who I am, and who I am has allowed me to do things that I do in a manner that is not only enjoyable and fun for me... but for those that I love and care about. No balance needed... I embrace my sadistic desires... I have fun with them... My motivations/drives to engage in the things I do are significantly different than the sociopath... I do not see it as a balance... It is a choice.... unfortunately in some cases sociopaths don't have the ability to choose differntly, they are in essense "FUCK UP", myself... I not, never been ashamed or embarassed by what I do and what I enjoy. I don't try to understand it or figure out why I like it... I accept it as is. But my moralities/values and principles affect all my choices and not just BDSM. quote: The assumption that people will jump right into cutting, breath control, caning that leaves welts or flogging that breaks skin doesn't even really have anything to do with the scenario described above because when a person is learning to naturally express their dominance I'd argue that it's 90% NOTHING to do with toys -- it's with whatever natural things are available and match our fantasies at that time. well it is not an assumption.. it happens - seen it, have the "T-shirt" as a sovenier. Secondly, you can argue all you want but unless you have some actaul factual datat to back up your claim that can be verified... well then it just another opinion based on a belief, we all have lots of those kinds of opinions. thirdly, I would agree the toy in quesiton is not so important as the motivation to carry out the act in the first place. those fantasies drives etc... How often this applies... who knows? I sure don't... but I know it applies me... and a few people I have shared conversations with. But, I also come across people that just love to use a specific toy. I know a guy here that whole fantasy is about the cane! which in alot is ideals and fantasies are focused on the cane itself... the cane seems to be the gateway to release fantasies that he doesn't see in any other context. sometimes the toy is the trigger... but the bullest are those fantasies/drives. quote: Whether or not a person is reckless, dangerous or voluntarily ignorant is a reflection of their entire moral character, not "how they learned to do BDSM." My thoughts are that those of us that have lived with a sadistic desire and had to learn how to express it in a safe, loving way are not the ones at risk to randomly start attempting acts that are too dangerous or require research before doing them. mmm well I would agree that the actual risk of people are going to go out running and doing unspeakable reckless activities is not going to be a rampant problem and indeed moral character does have a huge impact. But there is always those that are going to do stupid things... oh if I had a penny for everytime I see that happen.... and these are people of moral character. The fact is some people are very poor at Risk Awareness and Assessment. Common sense just doesn't seem to exist in everyone. Keep in mind as well... that not all dangers are readily apparent or even known to the populace. Alot of the old Leathermen from the 60-70's have passed on now from Aids. A disease that was unheard of back then, but now is huge flag of safety in all sexual alternate lifestyles. It is not just what we can learn... but some things we consider safe today can turn out to be very unsafe. I am sure we could make a huge list of things thru the course of time that was once considered of no real danger and now it's risk is very apparent to us. quote: In many cases, I think we made our "mistakes" (if you can call them that) and had our growing pains when messing around with light bondage, making a blindfold too tight, pulling hair a little too hard and apologizing afterward, getting a little too "intense" with the attitude/demeanor, leaving a small bite mark/hickey in a place that would embarrass our partner the next day at class. I'd much rather "learn the ropes" when play is young and innocent, and the only expectations are "how can I satisfy my desire and not harm my partner." I would say we generally make most "mistakes" in early days.. but those mistakes do tend to have less consequence in making them. However, as we continue, we to make mistakes and hopefully not the same ones w and less of them as well. But as we grow in our experiences and the level of our play increases... the consequence of the mistake grows as well, hopefully one is aware enough of the possible consequences. However, experience as shown me that not everyone is!

candystripper -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/21/2005 12:40:37 PM)
i have no interest in anything dangerous, but as has been pointed out to me, even simple bondage can be dangerous and should never be done with a Man i do not trust implictly. i want a Dom or Master who is experienced -- has had another subbie or slave for a year or more in real life. i want the mental aspect of D/s very much and do not want to learn at the same time as my Dom. However, there will always be a learning curve as we discover each other...so i guess i want a Man who will not try anything hurtful on me without having had some training; public play; seminars; other relationships; something. There are a variety of ways to gain the experience i seek; but having spent time with a Mentor would impress me. i myself had a Mentor when i first came to CM, and He kept me safe and taught me the basics of D/s and M/s. i feel very grateful to my Mentor. i think a Man i was attracted to would possess the judgment to choose a Mentor wisely, just as He would act judiciously in other areas of His life. candystripper

quietkitten -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/22/2005 5:16:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat I think our ladies are perfectly capable of helping themselves (eg: What Is It With Women...? ) And as I think of it, they are in fact, half the problem... Stay warm, Lawrence But we try so hard to be much more than half the problem!?! Where did we go wrong?

ExistentialSteel -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/22/2005 5:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: roughleather Here in SF, we have more people with technique than we have people with real dominant tendencies. There are so many classes. I've been to classes on rope bondage (too much like macrame), exhibitionism (Midori is truly sadistic), resistance play (a battle between a strong top and a tough woman), and the usual Society of Janus intros (the Kiwanis of kink.) You can get so into technique it's not even sexy any more. I think you made some good points there, Roughleather. As far as what a mentor does....he plays with subs no strings while he mentors them. With new Doms, he has them bring him subs so he can scene while the new Dom watches. Then he has the guy go home and write an essay of what he felt while watching. Yeah buddy.

Sirandlittle1 -> RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then.. You got it !!! (12/22/2005 5:48:50 PM)
Hello Delray, Sexual bdsm: lets imagine that you have graduated from such a 'school of training' or had mentoring from the devil himself on S&M. You arrive at a meeting between us, and we're off! Yep, its gonna be pretty shit love. Your skill and knowledge base maybe perfect, but being able to apply that knowledge so that it fulfills US, takes time, patience and a lot of communicating. Until you are with someone, practicing bdsm 'together', you've learnt jack shit. Non sexual: Well try doing this with a play partner, then try it again with someone you know inside out, when you really know what makes them tick, it is THAT knowledge that leads to success. bdsm relationships, are just like vanilla, they progress as knowledge progresses. And what you did to make your ex squirm with delight, might leave your current partner yawning. So your right back at square one with each new partner. Personally speaking, the only mentoring ive been offered is, let me fuck you and show you how to be submissive. Yeah, whatever! And as no two relationship dynamics are the same, how pertinant would someone else's experience be for you? little1

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