KnightofMists
Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
People don't *need* mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate.
Your quote Not mine! This statement that is an absolute... an absolute that I don't agree with and never will.. it's narrow and foolish....
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If everyone needs some kind of mentorship, then what is going on with the thousands of couples that practice safe, sane consensual BDSM play in places where there is no kinky community and no internet?
I never said that everyone need some kind of mentorship! I said
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The difficultiy level and effort required to learn a particular skill inconjuction with the person's learning abilities and skills sets are a better read on what or if specific mentorship would be needed and to what degree.
You seem to miss the "IF" in the statement... and also seem to miss that what is being learned and the abilities of the person in question are factors to determine if one should seek mentorship or not. It's a personal choice not a need!
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What about the people who practiced BDSM 500 years ago? Did they all have a mentor? Was their play less fulfilling? Was it less safe? One could argue that the proliferation of "ideas" and "suggestions" for edgier play on the Internet just gives inexperienced people motivation to engage in acts they clearly cannot handle.
I wouldn't have a clue what people did 500 years ago in their bedrooms...I am not that old... and couldn't tell you what or how people learned what they learned from those experiences... but if you have some actual experiences or facts that can answer those questions... I would love to see them.
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I'm not saying that "a natural, instinct-driven desire to dominate" is the only thing a dominant needs; I'm saying that having this foundation is not something that can be taught or mentored and it's probably the most critical part of the entire mix.
I understand that... I also would agree with you... what is within a person's character/personality/drives or whatever term you like to use is critical to the mix.... but then so is the desire to actually exercise that which is within... All the potential/raw talent/natural ability in the world is meaningless unless it is put into action. Dominance without results is nothing but hot air. However, you very specifically stated as noted above
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People don't *need* mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate.
I think I my opinion of this kind of statement rather clear!
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The reason it's the most important part is because from an early age a dominant must learn to express his/her desire in a way that does not harm/scare their partner. They immediately have to learn the process of communication, safety, reading people, and getting in touch with their own motivations. What separates us (dominants) from sociopathic sadists is that we possess a high level of compassion, morality and need for consent -- combined with an overwhelming desire to do the things that we have an undescibably lust for.
These are your opinions... some of which I would agree with... but their are other reasons as well... not all reasons are appliciable to every "so-called" natural Dominant. The combinations of experiences, learning, values, natural tendencies and many others will have different impacts upon different people. There is no road map that is suited to every person wanting to be an effective Dominant. But there are building blocks and you have expressed only a few.
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This balancing act that we learn is the basis for the entire concept of safe and consensual BDSM. If we have a partner we like, we want badly to express our dominant lust but at the same time do not want to hurt them or do anything that will make them not like us, not trust us, or run away from us. I use basic terms because at the age these thoughts are with us, that's about how simple it boils down to
I always find it interesting that people think it is a balance act to do the things we do and not be that sociopath. Well I balance nothing... I am not even on the same continuum... my motivations, my drives my morality are all different, even my physical make up is different, my experiences. I don't balance anything ... I just be who I am, and who I am has allowed me to do things that I do in a manner that is not only enjoyable and fun for me... but for those that I love and care about. No balance needed... I embrace my sadistic desires... I have fun with them... My motivations/drives to engage in the things I do are significantly different than the sociopath... I do not see it as a balance... It is a choice.... unfortunately in some cases sociopaths don't have the ability to choose differntly, they are in essense "FUCK UP", myself... I not, never been ashamed or embarassed by what I do and what I enjoy. I don't try to understand it or figure out why I like it... I accept it as is. But my moralities/values and principles affect all my choices and not just BDSM.
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The assumption that people will jump right into cutting, breath control, caning that leaves welts or flogging that breaks skin doesn't even really have anything to do with the scenario described above because when a person is learning to naturally express their dominance I'd argue that it's 90% NOTHING to do with toys -- it's with whatever natural things are available and match our fantasies at that time.
well it is not an assumption.. it happens - seen it, have the "T-shirt" as a sovenier. Secondly, you can argue all you want but unless you have some actaul factual datat to back up your claim that can be verified... well then it just another opinion based on a belief, we all have lots of those kinds of opinions. thirdly, I would agree the toy in quesiton is not so important as the motivation to carry out the act in the first place. those fantasies drives etc... How often this applies... who knows? I sure don't... but I know it applies me... and a few people I have shared conversations with. But, I also come across people that just love to use a specific toy. I know a guy here that whole fantasy is about the cane! which in alot is ideals and fantasies are focused on the cane itself... the cane seems to be the gateway to release fantasies that he doesn't see in any other context. sometimes the toy is the trigger... but the bullest are those fantasies/drives.
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Whether or not a person is reckless, dangerous or voluntarily ignorant is a reflection of their entire moral character, not "how they learned to do BDSM." My thoughts are that those of us that have lived with a sadistic desire and had to learn how to express it in a safe, loving way are not the ones at risk to randomly start attempting acts that are too dangerous or require research before doing them.
mmm well I would agree that the actual risk of people are going to go out running and doing unspeakable reckless activities is not going to be a rampant problem and indeed moral character does have a huge impact. But there is always those that are going to do stupid things... oh if I had a penny for everytime I see that happen.... and these are people of moral character. The fact is some people are very poor at Risk Awareness and Assessment. Common sense just doesn't seem to exist in everyone. Keep in mind as well... that not all dangers are readily apparent or even known to the populace. Alot of the old Leathermen from the 60-70's have passed on now from Aids. A disease that was unheard of back then, but now is huge flag of safety in all sexual alternate lifestyles. It is not just what we can learn... but some things we consider safe today can turn out to be very unsafe. I am sure we could make a huge list of things thru the course of time that was once considered of no real danger and now it's risk is very apparent to us.
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In many cases, I think we made our "mistakes" (if you can call them that) and had our growing pains when messing around with light bondage, making a blindfold too tight, pulling hair a little too hard and apologizing afterward, getting a little too "intense" with the attitude/demeanor, leaving a small bite mark/hickey in a place that would embarrass our partner the next day at class. I'd much rather "learn the ropes" when play is young and innocent, and the only expectations are "how can I satisfy my desire and not harm my partner."
I would say we generally make most "mistakes" in early days.. but those mistakes do tend to have less consequence in making them. However, as we continue, we to make mistakes and hopefully not the same ones *w* and less of them as well. But as we grow in our experiences and the level of our play increases... the consequence of the mistake grows as well, hopefully one is aware enough of the possible consequences. However, experience as shown me that not everyone is!
_____________________________
Knight of Mists
An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 
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