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Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 5:45:06 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Anti-Prop-8-Protest-Tomorrow.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdfIc9ExWPs&feature=related

http://www.gayliberation.net/home.html

(sarcasm)  how DARE those flaming faggots protest!  (/sarcasm)

it is un-nerving that a right is taken away from a people... it might explain why we still have the patriot act.   What did the right think would happen?  if a group is denoted as being animals not worthy of decent treatment, then if an animal back last happens- then why is that surprisiing.

The church interferes with public policy- yet- that is not the role - and if so then tax exempt doesnt apply.

but like these who voted for 8, thought it would blow over quickly. I guess not.  hmmm.   We live in interesting times.  the other day i thought - even my bad memories in life- that it is beauty to have lived.
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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 6:08:20 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Anti-Prop-8-Protest-Tomorrow.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdfIc9ExWPs&feature=related

http://www.gayliberation.net/home.html

(sarcasm)  how DARE those flaming faggots protest!  (/sarcasm)

it is un-nerving that a right is taken away from a people... it might explain why we still have the patriot act.   What did the right think would happen?  if a group is denoted as being animals not worthy of decent treatment, then if an animal back last happens- then why is that surprisiing.

The church interferes with public policy- yet- that is not the role - and if so then tax exempt doesnt apply.

but like these who voted for 8, thought it would blow over quickly. I guess not.  hmmm.   We live in interesting times.  the other day i thought - even my bad memories in life- that it is beauty to have lived.



That's odd, I heard the main reason prop 8 lost was because so many people on the LEFT came out to vote for Obama.....while they were there, they voted to stop gay marriage. Just what did the left think would happen?

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 6:13:00 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Its any bodies guess.


I voted for Ron Paul.

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 6:13:36 AM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		The thing about the whole Proposition 8 debate that I find most interesting is that California voted in favor of Obama. The people spoke. Many of the opponents to Prop 8 likely voted for Obama. So the people spoke and that's that... since the people spoke in a manner that those who are against Prop 8 approved of. Then the people spoke again in favor of Prop 8. Suddenly the will of the people is not good enough. What if everyone across the nation who did not vote for Obama rose up and protested against the decision?

I'm not personally for Prop 8. Had I had a voice I would have voted against it. But I do respect the will of the people as I have in the election of Obama, stupid as it may be. Why is the will of the people only okay for these folks if it falls on their side of the fence?

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 12:41:40 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		These are funny times.
Connecticut is getting more liberal and California is getting more conservative!

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 12:58:00 PM   
TheUtopian


Posts: 259
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Anti-Prop-8-Protest-Tomorrow.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdfIc9ExWPs&feature=related

http://www.gayliberation.net/home.html

(sarcasm)  how DARE those flaming faggots protest!  (/sarcasm)

it is un-nerving that a right is taken away from a people... it might explain why we still have the patriot act.   What did the right think would happen?  if a group is denoted as being animals not worthy of decent treatment, then if an animal back last happens- then why is that surprisiing.

The church interferes with public policy- yet- that is not the role - and if so then tax exempt doesnt apply.

but like these who voted for 8, thought it would blow over quickly. I guess not.  hmmm.   We live in interesting times.  the other day i thought - even my bad memories in life- that it is beauty to have lived.



Too bad they won't change their protest theme to that of targeting Wall Street......I think if they took a real hard look, they would figure out that the folks who voted in favor of Prop 8 represent a far less oppressive force than that of Goldman-Sachs




- R


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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 1:22:05 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Anti-Prop-8-Protest-Tomorrow.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdfIc9ExWPs&feature=related

http://www.gayliberation.net/home.html

(sarcasm)  how DARE those flaming faggots protest!  (/sarcasm)

it is un-nerving that a right is taken away from a people... it might explain why we still have the patriot act.   What did the right think would happen?  if a group is denoted as being animals not worthy of decent treatment, then if an animal back last happens- then why is that surprisiing.

The church interferes with public policy- yet- that is not the role - and if so then tax exempt doesnt apply.

but like these who voted for 8, thought it would blow over quickly. I guess not.  hmmm.   We live in interesting times.  the other day i thought - even my bad memories in life- that it is beauty to have lived.



Too bad they won't change their protest theme to that of targeting Wall Street......I think if they took a real hard look, they would figure out that the folks who voted in favor of Prop 8 represent a far less oppressive force than that of Goldman-Sachs




- R



I have been of the belief for a long time that the wrong issues are given importance by most people. Oh, not the wrong ones, as most issues are important, and some are certainly crucial to some. It just seems the level of priority some issues are given by most people (probably me too) are out of whack.

If you're ________ (gay, a minority, a gun owner - insert whatever issue you are passionate about) even though you may not be able to __________ (insert whatever result you are wanting) life does still go on, and in many ways in relatively unintererupted. Less than you want it to, but you can still manage a roof over your head and food on the table. The basics.

When you haven't enough money, or currency, or chits, then the roof and food pretty much become the most important.

I've just always considered that money is the biggest issue in almost all of our lives, but that few if any people have much understanding of our economic system, or what money is and is not. By remaining ignorant there is no way to exert any influence or control over the issue.

We want our lives to be about family, partner, children, work, school, play, etc. But first comes money. If you doubt this just try having less of it than you need. Having enough allows for anything else we want to be priotize in our lives to manifest. Not having enough and there is little else.

Money is like the gorilla in the living room that no one talks about.

I am very afraid our economy is beyond repair, and is in process of crashing very severely. It is possible, perhaps even likely, that the willful ignorance maintained by so many regarding the money issue is going to have some very serious consequences, and very soon.

"You can evade reality, but you can't evade the consequences of evading reality."
                                                                                            Ayn Rand

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/15/2008 4:18:03 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		Actually a majority of the blame can be placed on the Mormons, not necessarily "liberals". They spent some millions of dollars in a last minute push to ban gay marriage in California.

I, personally, think that gay people should be able to get married if they so choose. But there will always be strong opposition to it for the simple fact that if two GUYS are married, how the hell is the state supposed to know who to massively fuck over if they get divorced?

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 12:04:19 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I mean let's face it, what's the main objection to same sex marriage other than such people can't copulate like heterosexuals? Isn't that sexualizing the whole concept of marriage?

I'm making this point in a forthcoming play.. okay, let heterosexuals keep their precious marriage, but let them also prove that they are heterosexual and provide other evidence other than children that they do in fact copulate and I think that the state should require concrete proof that they are heterosexual.

I mean you have to prove who you are, you have to prove you have citizenship, so why not prove your sexual orientation? If marriage really is for procreation then fine, get yourselves off to some government office and prove that you are able to procreate and consummate your marriage. Let your consummation also be witnessed by some official. Provide evidence of your fertility and let some official witness your shagging.

This might strike some people as ridiculous, but it is no more ridiculous than the usual objections to same sex marriage.

You cannot have it both ways. Accept it.

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 4:13:57 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I guess no breeding farm for me then. glunk.

Ranger,  so then, bad you.   I support bankster reparations for their collateral damage, now that we are no longer irrationally exuberant.    hehe.   a rose by any other name.   a pile of shit by any other name.

So the people spoke?   The margin wasnt that big.  Maybe 3%.   intitives are numerous in CA.

I did not throw a protest in this town.  

1.  it would back fire.
2.  the grid told me to SHUT UP.
3. it  would not solve much.   WHy try to get it put on the PA ballot?   Funny thing is that factions here had enough signatures to put the flood wall on the ballot,  (many are against the hole needed for the ampitheator, I live at the wall and I am not as worried)  The measure was not allowed on the ballot.

Isnt it odd that 2/3 is not needed?

But ya know- it would be better to dump the patriot act.  That would be of benefit.

The churches are so holy- they allowed the banks usuary to the point of collateral damage...both in war and on the ballance sheet.

I better get busy. I am putting together a food basket for Mr morgan.   (JP Morgan)  gagggggggggggggggg

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 4:25:12 AM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I mean let's face it, what's the main objection to same sex marriage other than such people can't copulate like heterosexuals? Isn't that sexualizing the whole concept of marriage?

I'm making this point in a forthcoming play.. okay, let heterosexuals keep their precious marriage, but let them also prove that they are heterosexual and provide other evidence other than children that they do in fact copulate and I think that the state should require concrete proof that they are heterosexual.

I mean you have to prove who you are, you have to prove you have citizenship, so why not prove your sexual orientation? If marriage really is for procreation then fine, get yourselves off to some government office and prove that you are able to procreate and consummate your marriage. Let your consummation also be witnessed by some official. Provide evidence of your fertility and let some official witness your shagging.

This might strike some people as ridiculous, but it is no more ridiculous than the usual objections to same sex marriage.

You cannot have it both ways. Accept it.


Haha, now that's a good post. I will remember to bring up that point when debating same sex marriage.

I don't know if anyone on here has heard about this, but there is a book that the religious right are attempting to get banned. It's about two male penguins in the New York City Zoo, I believe, that partnered up and hatched an abandoned egg and raised the baby penguin successfully.

They're trying to get this book banned because one of the cornerstones of organized religion's arguments against homosexuality is that it's not "natural," and two men/two women raising a child is not "natural."

< Message edited by lazarus1983 -- 11/16/2008 4:26:30 AM >

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 4:40:36 AM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I mean let's face it, what's the main objection to same sex marriage other than such people can't copulate like heterosexuals? Isn't that sexualizing the whole concept of marriage?

I'm making this point in a forthcoming play.. okay, let heterosexuals keep their precious marriage, but let them also prove that they are heterosexual and provide other evidence other than children that they do in fact copulate and I think that the state should require concrete proof that they are heterosexual.

I mean you have to prove who you are, you have to prove you have citizenship, so why not prove your sexual orientation? If marriage really is for procreation then fine, get yourselves off to some government office and prove that you are able to procreate and consummate your marriage. Let your consummation also be witnessed by some official. Provide evidence of your fertility and let some official witness your shagging.

This might strike some people as ridiculous, but it is no more ridiculous than the usual objections to same sex marriage.

You cannot have it both ways. Accept it.


Haha, now that's a good post. I will remember to bring up that point when debating same sex marriage.

I don't know if anyone on here has heard about this, but there is a book that the religious right are attempting to get banned. It's about two male penguins in the New York City Zoo, I believe, that partnered up and hatched an abandoned egg and raised the baby penguin successfully.

They're trying to get this book banned because one of the cornerstones of organized religion's arguments against homosexuality is that it's not "natural," and two men/two women raising a child is not "natural."


Fucking penguin deviants...When will they stop trying to ruin traditional families?! Next thing you know they'll want to be able to marry polar bears, or worse multiple polar bears.

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 5:14:29 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility
So the people spoke and that's that... since the people spoke in a manner that those who are against Prop 8 approved of. Then the people spoke again in favor of Prop 8. Suddenly the will of the people is not good enough. What if everyone across the nation who did not vote for Obama rose up and protested against the decision?


You're comparing apples and oranges here.  We-The-People can put anyone we want in office as long as they meet the age and citizenship criteria.  If they get the most votes (or in the case of the Pres the most electoral votes) they're in and there's not a danged thing disgruntled voters or the courts or anyone else can do about it. 

When we create or change laws that affect our fellow citizens, either through the legislative process or through ballot initiatives, those affected citizens have the right to challenge that law in court.  Our system is set up specifically so that a majority of us can't take away rights from a minority of us. 

quote:

Why is the will of the people only okay for these folks if it falls on their side of the fence?


That's a silly statement, but I suspect you know that.  California voters failed to pass Prop 4, which was about abortion and parental notification.  Do you imagine that the pro-life folks in Calif are okay with the will of the people?

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 5:40:51 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		so- the people could, then in theory, vote to re-establish slavery.  

Why limit it blacks? 

Jews and Eguiptions   are not really Americans.. not the ones that came on the Mayflower. 

So shouldn't we preserve the sanctity of Mayflower-ness?

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 6:30:34 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
I'm making this point in a forthcoming play.. okay, let heterosexuals keep their precious marriage, but let them also prove that they are heterosexual and provide other evidence other than children that they do in fact copulate and I think that the state should require concrete proof that they are heterosexual.

 
I actually heard it argued by a marriage amendment supporter in my office that a one-man-one-woman rule does not mean that only heterosexuals can marry, it just means that if homosexuals want to marry they have to choose someone of the opposite sex.  Seriously.  She said this.  Completely blew me away.

quote:

If marriage really is for procreation then fine, get yourselves off to some government office and prove that you are able to procreate and consummate your marriage.


Since procreating is the biggest argument they have in favor of keeping marriage co-ed (not that it makes any sense, but it is the big argument), it would make sense to limit marriage only to couples who intend to procreate.  The hubby and I were both fertile when we married, but had already made the appointment to get him fixed, so we would have been out.  We could have gotten around that, I suppose - lied about our intentions.  Perhaps the thing to do is to only issue marriage licenses to couples who are already pregnant?

Former MN Senator Mark Dayton suggested doing away with marriage altogether as a legal construct.  The govt has civil unions that any adult couple can enter into (and derive the benefits from) regardless of gender, marriage is a matter between the couple and their church and their god.  I really like that idea. 

Hubby and I are deeply in love and plan to spend the rest of our lives together, but the reason I pushed him to get married as soon as I figured out he was the one for me was to get him health insurance.  If his employer had offered it, or if mine would have covered him without us getting married, I think we still would have done it eventually, to please his mother who was upset about him living in sin but tried not to let it show if for no other reason, but for us, marriage was a convenience.  We took a long lunch one day and got married by a court administrator.  For some religious same-sex couples I know, marriage is a sacrament and an intensely important event in their lives together.  I think it's a travesty that hubby and I can have the public acknowledgement of our union and all of the benefits that go along with that by filling out a form, paying $100 and going through a brief swearing-in ceremony, while these folks who take the whole thing a lot more seriously than I do can't get what I got so easily and cheaply for any amount of work and money.  It is a fundamental violation of the constitutional right to equal protection under the law, and I hope to see that confirmed by SCOTUS in my lifetime.

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 6:36:01 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
so- the people could, then in theory, vote to re-establish slavery.  


It looks like you were responding to me.  I don't know where you'd get that out of anything I said.  Can you clarify?

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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 8:31:39 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

it is un-nerving that a right is taken away from a people... it might explain why we still have the patriot act. What did the right think would happen? if a group is denoted as being animals not worthy of decent treatment, then if an animal back last happens- then why is that surprisiing.
What right was taken away?


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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 8:41:39 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

That's a silly statement, but I suspect you know that. California voters failed to pass Prop 4, which was about abortion and parental notification. Do you imagine that the pro-life folks in Calif are okay with the will of the people?

Probably not, but are the proponents of Prop 4 rioting, assaulting private citizens, and damaging private property?


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RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 8:45:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Our forefathers were just down right geniuses. They knew they had to figure a way for the minority to be protected from the majority..and they did with the Supreme Court. In this court the issue will be decided despite the prop 8's of this country.

Butch 

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Nov 15th protests 80 citys, prop 8 - 11/16/2008 8:50:37 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Our forefathers were just down right geniuses. They knew they had to figure a way for the minority to be protected from the majority..and they did with the Supreme Court. In this court the issue will be decided despite the prop 8's of this country.

The Supreme Court will leave this one alone.  They do not have jurisdiction over matters of state law and governance.


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