RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress?

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:13:07 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

P.S.: Elsewhere on the boards, some threads explicitly state the target audience in the OP, and most people respect that; maybe it can work here, too?

I always thought it had worked that way so far!

Bonus points to Aswad for such a succinct response!

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to Aswad)

Profile

Post #: 121

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:18:51 AM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FloridaMistresse

How do you feel about men responding to a post on Ask a Mistress?

Should they respect that it is addresses to "A Mistress" not "A Male"

My thoughts? No, males should not be giving advice here. Of course, the irony that I responded to this thread to give such an answer is not lost upon me.

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 122

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:19:27 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Just to cover some points:

1. An OP can be written as addressing any particular group. However, it is a public forum, so anyone may answer.

2. You are absolutely correct that it was pointed out by someone else first. I would further point out that particular distinction was made only after the opinions on what might be helpful differed.

3. "Denied" was probably not the best way to respond to the request. Still, it does ring true. There are forums out there that are exclusive to female only members. This isn't one of them.

4. It may not have been beneficial, but some of the replies seemed to be offered with good intent. I would think someone trying to help with what seemed to be a genuine problem, would have been accepted with grace.

5. I have no issue in saying that I might be in the minority in accepting and welcoming the submissive males on this board. I'm sure you did receive some private notes where some agree with you on the issue. Yet, I can point to countless threads where their contributions have been appreciated and adored.

6. No, you didn't name the board. If the ones who had named the board wanted to enforce female only or male only sections, I'm sure they would do so. I noticed that you haven't posted much, so you may not be familiar with the job that Mod Eleven does policing those who are a bit uppity, including Myself.

7. I'm not sure what your reason for not posting there is to you. On CM, it's generally frowned on to post the same question on multiple forums. Had you done so, there's a good likelihood that one or the other would have been pulled.

8. You are absolutely entitled. It doesn't mean that you own the thread or anyone has to abide by what you've written. Our opinions may differ, but personally, I believe I only have power over those who chose to give it to Me. I don't control anyone else.

9. If you seek a female dominant only response, you might wish to chose a female only audience. I would be hard pressed to find any thread that had only female opinions on it, much less only those of dominant females here on CM. The same goes for every section, even the Gorean and poly ones.

10. I'm not sure I would use such a strong word as shocking. I have only the few words you have posted to get a concept of who you are. I've been known to be wrong before. I'll be happy if this is also one of those occasions.

I see that you're not exactly new, even though you don't post much. Let Me say that you are welcome here, just like anyone else regardless of gender, orientation, or which side of the kneel someone happens to be on. I think you'll find the environment to be one of interesting discussion and debate. It's good to have you here.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 123

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:36:56 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So my question is...how would one be clear in the title of a thread that they want the title to be taken literally rather than as a catch phrase that isn't so important to the thread?

Boyjen, my own answer to that, as you know, is that your question itself is wrongly premised. No doubt that there's a way of making it abundantly clear that one is requesting that this or that group not involve itself in a given thread. However my opinion is that such a request could legitimately be denied and probably will be in most cases. Reasons as per my previous post here.

PeonForHer...

So what about anyother request a Domme make in general about a discussion she's having? Were you to be owned would you feel so entitled to being part of her public discussions even though your pointed excluded? Note: I do get the difference between interacting with the Domme who owns you and other Dommes.

Politely...there's more tactful ways to deal with this type of situation than "denied!" (And that's a hell of a statement coming from me)

Like I told you privately...I really liked undergroundsea's choice...open another thread about the same/similar topic. It showed respect for the requested space (as there is no enforcement any one OP can take upon a thread about who can and cannot participate...it's up to the readers to choose to honor that request or not) and a great deal of positive character.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

To add to that, I'll also state that what a *sub* thinks can help a femdom relationship dynamic work is FAR different from what a femdom thinks, in many cases. I don't care HOW much experience a sub has, he can't 100% state he knows what's going on if he's never been the woman in a relationship.

M.Aakasha that's exactly the point of the OP if I get it right. And the point that was obviously not made clear to some reading the thread and following discussion. I cannot possibly know what MsK would say to the thread in question if I didn't ask. I also can only relay the conversation and yes it's different coming from me than Her. Any experience is going to be different for any individual...AND with this one commonality between being a Domme, it provides a certain level of relation to the situation and the opinions on how to deal with the situation.

boi

Edited to add: To me this is like being at a bar and hearing a conversation. If it's interesting one can politely join in. If it's made clear that one is not welcome...why be an ass about it?

As a side note: I've noticed males (in general) have no problem staking a claim in places and exclaiming "no women allowed" and sticking to that...look at the US military and any Pro sports team. However, when the shoe is on the other foot it's all about how "unfair" it is that a woman would dare exclude men from their lives in any way.

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 11/17/2008 11:41:51 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Profile

Post #: 124

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:41:54 AM

FloridaMistresse

Posts: 58
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline

Why Thank you. I have actually enjoyed many parts of this discussion, and would not have posted if I did not think there would be benefit to Myself and others by doing so.

I doubt I shall ever change My vanilla posting status as I rarly even come onto CM never mind the boards, but I was frustrated and wanted the opinions of others, and therefore I posted My OP.

FM~

(in reply to LadyPact)

Profile

Post #: 125

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 11:50:09 AM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

I respond to any thread I believe I have a relevant opinion on. You can choose to block or ignore or even read my responses. I accept flaming with the appropriate grace. The way I see it, if someone doesn't like what I have to say or where I say it, they have some options:

a) They can tell me to stop.
b) They can complain to the moderators.
c) They can piss in the wind.
d) They can go sweep the desert free of sand.
e) They can bitch at me to their heart's content in the boards or on cmail, possibly even in one of my rare visits to a chat room around here.

The above will all likely have the exact same effect. If those options are unsuitable to you, you have one further choice.

f) They can complain to my Owner, in the hopes that She will curtail my posting in any "inappropriate" forum

The above will most likely only get a chuckle; as with few exceptions, Ma'am has expressed pleasure and amusement in my postings.

I generally post with an attitude of respect, though on a few subjects I can be found to be ranting and/or adversarial. But, in the end; however I post, as long as it is withing the posted TOS here at Collarme; it's really nobody's business beyond that of Ma'am and myself.

edited to add: I'm sure some here have been wondering why I took so late in responding to a thread that seems to practically beg for a loud obnoxious guy like myself to stick his foot in it. My only excuse for waiting is that I didn't feel I could be so nice before today. *winks*

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 11/17/2008 11:53:13 AM >

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Profile

Post #: 126

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 12:07:56 PM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

FloridaMistresse wrote:
Let's just stick to some facts here:

3) I clarified that I was only seeking a Mitresses POV and I was resolutely told "denied" ( some how that is not rude? perhaps there is a different standard for male subs Vs Female Mistresses?)

quote:

4) The feedback from the males was not beneficial to Me in any way. Sorry just a fact.

Well, I'm sorry about that. However, the thread is not your personal property and does not exist only for your benefit only. Other people on the forum may have found the men's responses useful and interesting and it is not for you to choose what everybody else sees, even in a thread that you started.

quote:

5) Many have written Me off the board and thanked Me for bringing up males responding on this board, that is beleaguers them to say the least.

Ah, yes. The old `The lurkers support me in E-mail' argument. All these people who don't care enough to actually post here but have strong opinions about how the place ought to be run.

quote:

8) Am I not entitled to elicit whatever POV I so choose?

You are entitled to ask for whatever you want. You do not, however, have the authority to tell people what they can and cannot post to any given thread in this forum.

quote:

9) Is it appropriate to malign Me or redirect Me, or whatever verb you so choose, for having the desire to seek a POV from a certain group? In this case Mistresses.

I find it sad that you don't believe that a man could possibly answer a question of the form, `I'm having a problem with my relationship; does anyone have any ideas about how I could fix it?' All of those Dommes who had the same problem as you're having? They had that problem with a submissive. And that submissive could just as well describe to you how they turned their relationship around as could his or her Mistress.

quote:

Do I think in some topics all POV are beneficial or even amusing. Yes, this topic for instance I think it more open to responses from bottoms and Tops, male or female. However in My OP "From a Mistress to a Mistress" it was not disrespectful or unreasonable to hope that only Mistresses reply.

It was disrespectful of the other users of this forum who are interested in hearind the views of people other than dominant women. As such, yes, it was unreasonable, too.

beeble.

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 127

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 12:08:36 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

So what about anyother request a Domme make in general about a discussion she's having? Were you to be owned would you feel so entitled to being part of her public discussions even though your pointed excluded? Note: I do get the difference between interacting with the Domme who owns you and other Dommes.

If so directed by my own domina. (That'd be a strange request, though!) However, that bears no relevance, as you say, to ‘rules’ regarding conduct here. This forum is absolutely not, in my opinion, to be seen as analogous to one Domina (made up of several parts) talking with Her sub (also made up of many parts).

Politely...there's more tactful ways to deal with this type of situation than "denied!" (And that's a hell of a statement coming from me)

Yes – that was impolite. I should have been a lot less blunt. Apologies to FloridaMistresse for that.

Akasha said:
To add to that, I'll also state that what a *sub* thinks can help a femdom relationship dynamic work is FAR different from what a femdom thinks, in many cases. I don't care HOW much experience a sub has, he can't 100% state he knows what's going on if he's never been the woman in a relationship.

To which Boijen commented:
M.Aakasha that's exactly the point of the OP if I get it right. And the point that was obviously not made clear to some reading the thread and following discussion. I cannot possibly know what MsK would say to the thread in question if I didn't ask. I also can only relay the conversation and yes it's different coming from me than Her. Any experience is going to be different for any individual...AND with this one commonality between being a Domme, it provides a certain level of relation to the situation and the opinions on how to deal with the situation.

Yes, ‘a certain level of relations’ – but not less. More fundamentally, though – and once again – the original poster doesn’t own the rest of the thread. S/he is just the one who sets a certain theme of a discussion going. If one has an interest, a comment to make, a related question on which help is needed – then, in my view, a contribution is not only legitimate but desirable, because this is what makes so many people read forums. It’s central to their vibrancy.

As a side note: I've noticed males (in general) have no problem staking a claim in places and exclaiming "no women allowed" and sticking to that...look at the US military and any Pro sports team. However, when the shoe is on the other foot it's all about how "unfair" it is that a woman would dare exclude men from their lives in any way.

Firstly, two wrongs don’t make a right! Secondly, I’m not “men in general”, nor is any other individual male writing here. Thirdly, let’s not forget who else other than men were asked, by implication,to keep their comments to themselves. I’m particularly conscious in this respect right now of Stella’s last contribution, above.

Well, this is how I conclude it all to myself. If there were to be a majority decision that questions which exclude certain people are legitimate, I wouldn’t like it, would feel it to be misguided, but I’d go along with it.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/17/2008 12:12:37 PM >

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to BoiJen)

Profile

Post #: 128

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 12:11:45 PM

beeble

Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

BoiJen wrote: So my question is...how would one be clear in the title of a thread that they want the title to be taken literally rather than as a catch phrase that isn't so important to the thread?

One does not. It really is as simple as that. The thread is not the property of the person who started it and they have no right to restrict the enjoyment of that thread by others.

beeble.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Profile

Post #: 129

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 12:16:36 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FloridaMistresse

Why Thank you. I have actually enjoyed many parts of this discussion, and would not have posted if I did not think there would be benefit to Myself and others by doing so.

I doubt I shall ever change My vanilla posting status as I rarly even come onto CM never mind the boards, but I was frustrated and wanted the opinions of others, and therefore I posted My OP.

FM~

You are quite welcome. Don't concern yourself a bit with that posting status. It bothers many in the beginning, but it's not really relevant.

The frustration does come through. That is understandable enough. Who among us doesn't get frustrated when there is an issue in our dynamic? You obviously care for your girl and want your house and home in order. This small debate I see as just a distraction from the real issue that was behind the original thread. Are there any of us so perfect that we never get side tracked?

From the desk of the imperfect Lady Pact.

ETA...... Yes, dc, I was wondering that and a thing or two more.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 11/17/2008 12:17:47 PM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 130

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 7:37:18 PM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

~FR~

As a few have pointed out clearly and to which I fully agree, there are female issues which a Domme does need the advice from her peers which a male, including myself, will never be able to offer valid opinions to. So keeping this in the same theme as the thread is going, I do have a legitimate question to ask.

If a person who identifies as a two-spirit person, where the general definition is a person who have the characteristics and thought process of both male and female, how would you react if such a person posted in the "Ask A Mistress" section? Do you see their traits giving validity to their opinions or would their posts be considered not valid due to the gender status?

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 11/17/2008 7:39:10 PM >

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to LadyPact)

Profile

Post #: 131

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 8:37:01 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I do not expect anyone to respect, show respect, honor me, give me submission, follow my orders or go by my request in any form unless they are in a relationship with me and I have proven myself to them. I also do not expect people to be kind or respectful on a message board. They can say or do whatever they want... but of course they may get bashed, even by me. I do not consider myself higher, better or of any standing that anyone would be subject to. They piss me off, I tell them. I piss them off, they tell me. I talk, they talk... it's all good.

I have seen some real idiots on both sides of d/s and one point of view can be just as messed up as another. I concider the person and the words and go from there. I've been a part of groups where there was only a dominant point of view... I found it rather slanted, unrealistic and something very in the box. Not something I liked very well and won't return to. I like CM just as it is.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to beargonewild)

Profile

Post #: 132

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 8:37:53 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FloridaMistresse

Sorry peon but the above points were not assumptions, but rather facts. There is absolutely no way one can assume that when I state #4 the feedback from males was not beneficial to Me is an assumption. It is in fact a simple fact. It seems that fact bothers some people on here. Why, I am not sure, perhaps the why is the real question. Could it possibly be that not all male opinions are useful? No couldn't be that. Could it be that some men think that women should value their POV even if its not asked for? No No No I am sure its not that either. Hmm <tapping chin> wondering what it could be. Well, I am sure some nice, kind, respectful man will be more than happy to tell Me what it is.

I am curious about something...you keep saying you want a Mistress's opinion, not a males. Does this apply to all males or just submissive males?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 133

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 8:45:38 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

My personal factoid... anyone that disqualifies intelligence by dominant/submissive/male/female or whatever... isn't open to the fullness of life and living and has a real attitude problem that most likely stems from personal wounds and prejudice.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to thishereboi)

Profile

Post #: 134

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 8:48:10 PM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I do not expect anyone to respect, show respect, honor me, give me submission, follow my orders or go by my request in any form unless they are in a relationship with me and I have proven myself to them. I also do not expect people to be kind or respectful on a message board. They can say or do whatever they want... but of course they may get bashed, even by me. I do not consider myself higher, better or of any standing that anyone would be subject to. They piss me off, I tell them. I piss them off, they tell me. I talk, they talk... it's all good.

I have seen some real idiots on both sides of d/s and one point of view can be just as messed up as another. I concider the person and the words and go from there. I've been a part of groups where there was only a dominant point of view... I found it rather slanted, unrealistic and something very in the box. Not something I liked very well and won't return to. I like CM just as it is.

It may be just how I think as I will automatically give a measure of respect to a poster even if I don't know that person. Even though it's words on the screen, I also take into consideration that you are a living person with feelings and emotions that used a keyboard to create the words. In my mind, every person on this site automatically deserves a decent level of respect and honor that is based upon the individual as a person first and foremost.

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to Lockit)

Profile

Post #: 135

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 8:51:17 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I can agree with that bear... but I don't expect it. lol

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to beargonewild)

Profile

Post #: 136

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 9:29:27 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
As a side note: I've noticed males (in general) have no problem staking a claim in places and exclaiming "no women allowed" and sticking to that...look at the US military and any Pro sports team. However, when the shoe is on the other foot it's all about how "unfair" it is that a woman would dare exclude men from their lives in any way.

Interesting point. This particular environment doesn't really seem designed to be female-only, but I know that some professions do discriminate strongly against men--all of the people I know who write romance fiction are actually men who write under female pseudonyms, for example.

Despite the few exceptions, though, the majority of gender-segregated areas in our society are male-only.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to BoiJen)

Profile

Post #: 137

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/17/2008 9:54:26 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

~FR~

Why would someone care where good advice comes from? If a male sub, a male Dom, and a Mistress all gave the same advice, it would still be good advice no matter where it comes from. This is my first ever post in this section, as I do not usually feel I have anything to contribute here, but unless specifically forbidden by the TOS, I will offer my insights anytime I think they may be of value. I hope all posters feel the same way, as when I post a question I want as many perspectives as possible, so I can make an informed choice based upon that information.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Profile

Post #: 138

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/18/2008 4:15:05 AM

FloridaMistresse

Posts: 58
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

~FR~

As a few have pointed out clearly and to which I fully agree, there are female issues which a Domme does need the advice from her peers which a male, including myself, will never be able to offer valid opinions to. So keeping this in the same theme as the thread is going, I do have a legitimate question to ask.

If a person who identifies as a two-spirit person, where the general definition is a person who have the characteristics and thought process of both male and female, how would you react if such a person posted in the "Ask A Mistress" section? Do you see their traits giving validity to their opinions or would their posts be considered not valid due to the gender status?

(in reply to beargonewild)

Profile

Post #: 139

RE: Should men be responding to Ask a Mistress? - 11/18/2008 4:34:57 AM

FloridaMistresse

Posts: 58
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline

My reply is simply this: I have responded to this already. I stated: I respectfully asked for "A Mistresses" reponse.
If you identify as a Mistress then respond. I did not say what type of spirit you needed to be. If you are by some chance a male submissive that identifies as a Mistress ( which apprently there are several on here) then respond.

It was a simply request, that was and I quote "denied"

Do I own this board, NOPE. Do I claim to NOPE. Did I think the request was simple and innocent enough. YUP. Did I intend or think it would create the malestrom it did. Hell NO! LOL

No matter how enlightened the male just does not know what it is like to walk in the females shoes. and vice versa. This of course excluded MTF, FTM I am not going to get into that as it is a whole other issue.

Just as I do not know what its like to be a man, or a drug addict, or black. I would never even hesitate a guess as to what its like to be discriminated against just from the color of My skin. So, do men not know what it is like to be a Mistress. They think they can relate or have a "good" response to Our issues, however, they do not really know what W/we face. Nor do I know what it is like to be a male submissive. It would just be speculation on My part.
What this thread really smacks of to Me is what I and many other gay women get from men constantly: "Oh you really would enjoy sex with me if you tried it. you do not know what your missing honey, you need a real man to fix that itch baby. Oh Mistress I would please you like no one else ever has I promise. "

Just as I do not have to justify why I do not want sex from a man, I see no need to justify why I did not ask for "advice or insight" from a man. It's funny to Me that they(men) all felt like they had something valuable to lend. Did any of them ask? NOPE. They just made the decision for themselves. Then it became about freedom, and bias, and property of CM etc etc etc.
The crux was this, a Mistress asked for other Mistresses feedback and men jumped all over it. Period.
Is that right or wrong? Y/you all have made your personal decisions.

(in reply to FloridaMistresse)

Profile

Post #: 140