RE: Old way lifestyle vs new

RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:24:44 PM)
Sometimes when people flock to what a person does that was once seen as fringe you might feel accepted..In this case I'm not so sure that a flood of new people is all that good. Before you know it..a vanilla lifestyle will be the new BDSM. [:D] In this case I'm okay with being the separatist.

IvyMorgan -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:29:57 PM)
I guess for me, I can't separate the fact that S&M is erotic to me. Regardless of which side of the whip I'm on, it comes down to the fact that I do it because I get a kick out of it and part of that kick is sexual. The same applies to D/s. I'll push my limits for someone, I'll do what they ask/tell me, because I get something out of it, some kick, and part of that kick is sexual. I love the old/new debate. Ever since I started doing this thing called kink, it's been about power/authority/control exchange. It's been about one person on top, and one person being less. It's been about degreading someone, debasing someone, hurting someone, all because you get a kick out of it, all because they get a kick out of it, or sometimes, because they don't. It's always been about sex, power, money, at least from my experience of it. Sure, it's a little different now, for me. My experience has changed as I've gotten older. I've met different people, seen different things, had different relationships. Doesn't mean the old isn't happening, or that, when you strip away everything else, the new isn't pretty much the same.

tweedydaddy -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:33:15 PM)
We am very old school. I don't think this lifestyle is about shaggathons. If people want to screw in public etc, brilliant, whatever works for them and bravo, bit it's not what I'm about. LadyLove has four very loyal male slaves and a fuck is never part of that equation. I don't rule out us ever having sex with people we play with, who can? But it's not a primary goal. You can get a shag anywhere, any time, isn't that what Vanilla people do?

tweedydaddy -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:35:09 PM)
we are very old school, damn this bargain keyboard!

Icarys -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:37:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy We am very old school. I don't think this lifestyle is about shaggathons. If people want to screw in public etc, brilliant, whatever works for them and bravo, bit it's not what I'm about. LadyLove has four very loyal male slaves and a fuck is never part of that equation. I don't rule out us ever having sex with people we play with, who can? But it's not a primary goal. You can get a shag anywhere, any time, isn't that what Vanilla people do? This mindset to me is what separates BDSM from just kinky(the intent of the relationship)Anything other than commitment is just play to me. People can call what they do anything they want but when I speak about it to you I'm gonna call it how I see it.

DesFIP -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:40:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy You can get a shag anywhere, any time, isn't that what Vanilla people do? Some do, some don't. But when people talk about 'the beginnings' they are primarily referring to Old Guard, gay leather s & m after WWII. And those men could not get a shag anytime, anywhere because homosexuality was illegal. The only safe way to have plentiful sex was private clubs, bath houses, parties etc. Going to a bar even in a primarily gay neighborhood still carried the risk of jail time. The revolt at the Stonewall bar arrests in NYC's Greenwich Village, then a heavily gay area, was not until the summer of 1969. I don't know when it became legal in the UK.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:42:20 PM)
No matter how you define your lifestyle lets face it, sex is all ways there lurking some where,I find owning a human being the biggest turn on for me, total control total obedience,total slavery to and for me..I am going to age myself now,I have been around BC yes thats before computer, where most communication was Thur under ground papers and clubs..The first meets were face to face and no email chases involved..this was the way I liked it, but we must adapt and changes after all this is 2008 lol...bounty

mummyman321 -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 3:42:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissIsis But then he began to talk about how the old guard lifestyle never focused on sex, & how the new generation of lifestylers were all about sex. The conversation made me realize just why it is that sometimes we have so many misunderstandings about the lifestyle between each other. It may also be why we have so many people coming on to lists like this, thinking that being sexual on cam is part of our lifestyle. I would like to bring up a point of discussion here. I see so many referances to the "Old Guard Lifestyle" and how its not about sex. But when you research the beginings of BDSM, it is about sex. Even the Kama Sutra, which dates back to the 2nd century, describes four different kinds of hitting during love making and calls out "joyful cries of pain". Even if you research the Old Guard which states it started shortly after WWII and grew out of the WWII biker culture, was based on hedonistic erotism (kink) and it was definately about alternative sexual lifestyle and not main stream. So to the point of "Old Guard Lifestyle" was not about sex I do not think is a correct statement. At least all the information I have read on it actually states the opposite.

Kindandcruel -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 4:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin The problem is that different people take different words/terms to mean different things. This means people judge others and stick their noses in the air. Shitting on something because they aren’t what you are is pretty bad, mind you accepting that everyone finds their own way to do things can be hard too. Words have specific meaning... look that up in the dictionary. I have been living this way of life before the so called young ones came on the scene and I have watched the total disintegration of the basis of this life. You speak of shitting on something... that is exactly what the liberals and the younger group has done. Since they were so selfish and self oriented to the point that they did not want to merge themselves into the established norm, they decided to change the meaning of everything so they can call themselves "slaves" or Dom/mes because that is the current FAD. These people have never taken a day to be serious in BDSM... they would read some fiction and then the little girls would think that is soooo cool or Rad or whatever... but they also found out that to really live this way of life then they really had to change their attitude and make somebody else more important then themselves. Since this is not going to happen because the universe is mobilized totally around them... the simple solution is to just shit on those that have trained for years and have put in the time just so they can call themselves slaves and be cool (emo). It is not the older more experienced people that is shitting on the younger selfish ones, it is the reverse. You are welcome to have all the kink and self absorption that you want and you can call it anything you want... just don't call it BDSM or S/M unless that is exactly what it is... and I am not saying by your definition. Don't insult those of us that have spent our lives living this way by saying that you are a slave when you can;'t even spell the word let along having never been a submissive. You spout your disrespect for people that are real because you have no real experience and you want instant gratification like a child, being a slave comes after years of experience and training and after being a submissive for a good amount of time. People that disagree are the jokes, the wanna be's and the pretenders. I have a Masters degree in Information Systems (as well as psychology), and I see the same thing happen in IT. Suddenly you have these young morons that were gamers and think they know everything come in to a department and expect to be paid the same as the more experienced people. They don't really know anything outside of their own egotistical self importance. They don't have the maturity to understand the intricacies of the most simple functions or processes yet they want to be managers and highly paid. This is the same for what I see here... they liberals did the same in the school system by trying to make everybody equal... nobody fails, so nobody earns or learns... you just end up with a bunch of kids that expect to get and have what they don't deserve or earned. Just take a look on the pages here... 18 and 19 year olds claiming to be Masters or slaves... hell they haven't even gotten to the point of understanding how to balance a check register... how can they have the experience and maturity of being responsible for another human beings life? But then since they are only playing at it, meaning they for them it is just a game... sex and doing scenes and maybe bossing somebody around; then it is being real... to that I say BULL SHIT! Don't call it real when it is only pretending and play acting... because that is shitting on those of us that are real... slaves and Masters alike. This is nothing more than children playing cops and robbers or Cowboys and Indians... and no more real then the play. I know a lot of you will get pissed off for what I am saying because you disagree with me... but then liberals are the most intolerant people around... not to mention selfish and lazy. You are anything BUT LIBERAL! Anybody that grew up ion the 60's understand what I am talking about... because I was a liberal when being liberal meant something. There are a lot of people that are serious about trying to learn the reality of this way of life... unfortunately there is so much bull crap being spread within these forums by these wanna-be liberals and FAD chasers and swingers that want kink who all have to redefine everything to suit their own narcissistic nature that new people think that what they say is real. They don't have any truth or background to understand the perpetual lies and dis-information here. It takes years to deprogram a person from the cultural dysfunction they pick up from whatever culture they are raised in. It also takes substantial knowledge to train a slave psychologically as well as physically to be a slave... and it takes years of work. YOU DO NOT TRAIN A SLAVE IN 2 OR 3 WEEKS, YOU DO NOT BECOME A SLAVE BECAUSE YOU PLAYED ONLINE FOR A FEW YEARS PRETENDING YOU ARE A SLAVE, YOU DO NOT BECOME A SLAVE BY GOING THROUGH A SLAVE TRAINING CLASS OR SEMINAIR. THE SAME WITH BEING A DOMINANT OR A MASTER!!! A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. Things have gotten so lame and diluted that I have recently read a book written by a woman that took a week-end class and claims to be an expert Master now. She was writing on many subjects that she had admittedly no experience with (multiple slaves), she spent more time talking about her own fears and inhibitions... yet because she took a class she thought of herself to be an expert.... what a joke!!! That is what I am talking about... So don’t talk to me about how those younger people “feel” like they are being shit upon by those who are experienced and have earned our title (including those that are working hard to earn their title currently)…. Be it slave or Master.

MissIsis -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 5:26:51 PM)
I just got home from work, & just now got to read the responses from everyone. I can't answer every one of your posts, but I want to thank you very much for participating in my posting. It is great to be able to read everyone's thoughts on this.

MadRabbit -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:01:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin The problem is that different people take different words/terms to mean different things. This means people judge others and stick their noses in the air. Shitting on something because they aren’t what you are is pretty bad, mind you accepting that everyone finds their own way to do things can be hard too. Words have specific meaning... look that up in the dictionary. I have been living this way of life before the so called young ones came on the scene and I have watched the total disintegration of the basis of this life. You speak of shitting on something... that is exactly what the liberals and the younger group has done. Since they were so selfish and self oriented to the point that they did not want to merge themselves into the established norm, they decided to change the meaning of everything so they can call themselves "slaves" or Dom/mes because that is the current FAD. These people have never taken a day to be serious in BDSM... they would read some fiction and then the little girls would think that is soooo cool or Rad or whatever... but they also found out that to really live this way of life then they really had to change their attitude and make somebody else more important then themselves. Since this is not going to happen because the universe is mobilized totally around them... the simple solution is to just shit on those that have trained for years and have put in the time just so they can call themselves slaves and be cool (emo). It is not the older more experienced people that is shitting on the younger selfish ones, it is the reverse. You are welcome to have all the kink and self absorption that you want and you can call it anything you want... just don't call it BDSM or S/M unless that is exactly what it is... and I am not saying by your definition. Don't insult those of us that have spent our lives living this way by saying that you are a slave when you can;'t even spell the word let along having never been a submissive. You spout your disrespect for people that are real because you have no real experience and you want instant gratification like a child, being a slave comes after years of experience and training and after being a submissive for a good amount of time. People that disagree are the jokes, the wanna be's and the pretenders. I have a Masters degree in Information Systems (as well as psychology), and I see the same thing happen in IT. Suddenly you have these young morons that were gamers and think they know everything come in to a department and expect to be paid the same as the more experienced people. They don't really know anything outside of their own egotistical self importance. They don't have the maturity to understand the intricacies of the most simple functions or processes yet they want to be managers and highly paid. This is the same for what I see here... they liberals did the same in the school system by trying to make everybody equal... nobody fails, so nobody earns or learns... you just end up with a bunch of kids that expect to get and have what they don't deserve or earned. Just take a look on the pages here... 18 and 19 year olds claiming to be Masters or slaves... hell they haven't even gotten to the point of understanding how to balance a check register... how can they have the experience and maturity of being responsible for another human beings life? But then since they are only playing at it, meaning they for them it is just a game... sex and doing scenes and maybe bossing somebody around; then it is being real... to that I say BULL SHIT! Don't call it real when it is only pretending and play acting... because that is shitting on those of us that are real... slaves and Masters alike. This is nothing more than children playing cops and robbers or Cowboys and Indians... and no more real then the play. I know a lot of you will get pissed off for what I am saying because you disagree with me... but then liberals are the most intolerant people around... not to mention selfish and lazy. You are anything BUT LIBERAL! Anybody that grew up ion the 60's understand what I am talking about... because I was a liberal when being liberal meant something. There are a lot of people that are serious about trying to learn the reality of this way of life... unfortunately there is so much bull crap being spread within these forums by these wanna-be liberals and FAD chasers and swingers that want kink who all have to redefine everything to suit their own narcissistic nature that new people think that what they say is real. They don't have any truth or background to understand the perpetual lies and dis-information here. It takes years to deprogram a person from the cultural dysfunction they pick up from whatever culture they are raised in. It also takes substantial knowledge to train a slave psychologically as well as physically to be a slave... and it takes years of work. YOU DO NOT TRAIN A SLAVE IN 2 OR 3 WEEKS, YOU DO NOT BECOME A SLAVE BECAUSE YOU PLAYED ONLINE FOR A FEW YEARS PRETENDING YOU ARE A SLAVE, YOU DO NOT BECOME A SLAVE BY GOING THROUGH A SLAVE TRAINING CLASS OR SEMINAIR. THE SAME WITH BEING A DOMINANT OR A MASTER!!! A Master has an in-depth understanding of psychology, physiology of the human body, understands responsibility and integrity, understands who he is, has an extensive amount of life experience, does not have temper tantrums, thinks before he administers any punishment, knows when to stop the play, knows the difference between childish behavior and internal resistance, know there is more to training than just beating and punishing a slave, and that sex is only a small part of the whole. Things have gotten so lame and diluted that I have recently read a book written by a woman that took a week-end class and claims to be an expert Master now. She was writing on many subjects that she had admittedly no experience with (multiple slaves), she spent more time talking about her own fears and inhibitions... yet because she took a class she thought of herself to be an expert.... what a joke!!! That is what I am talking about... So don’t talk to me about how those younger people “feel” like they are being shit upon by those who are experienced and have earned our title (including those that are working hard to earn their title currently)…. Be it slave or Master. Whatever helps you deal with the ED. Wooshah, buddy! Wooshah!

Rover -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:12:41 PM)
Fast Reply to no one in particular.... Gawd, not another one of these threads. 1. No, it wasn't deeper, more meaningful and purer "back then". 2. No, people are not more obsessed with sex now than they were "back then". 3. No, those recollections aren't consistent with documented historical facts. I now return you to your regular programming. John

MadRabbit -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:16:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Fast Reply to no one in particular.... Gawd, not another one of these threads. 1. No, it wasn't deeper, more meaningful and purer "back then". 2. No, people are not more obsessed with sex now than they were "back then". 3. No, those recollections aren't consistent with documented historical facts. I now return you to your regular programming. John Don't you bring documented history into this, you young liberal! It was greater and better and more real with properly defined definitions and true Masters and slaves.

CalifChick -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:18:35 PM)
Awwww, John... you didn't say, "come little children, gather around my knee as I tell you how it really was back then..." CheekyCali (yes, a paid member of the Rover fan club)

RedMagic1 -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:39:09 PM)
I agree that it takes years to program yourself to think differently from how society trains you to think. I also believe that language is alive, and so is human society. Living things grow and change... and sometimes those changes are even for the better. It's times like these that I am soooo grateful for internet dating sites. If all I had available to me was a "public scene" world of uberdoms and supersubs, I would never have met amazing, creative people who love to play, explore, and learn... and who care more about themselves (and me) than any rigid dogma.

KatyLied -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 6:52:37 PM)
quote: being a slave comes after years of experience and training and after being a submissive for a good amount of time. I don't think you wanna go there. What about the submissives that never want to be slaves? What about the submissives who think it's a load of crap to have to "earn" something they inherently are?

Padriag -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 7:01:45 PM)
Normally, when someone starts a conversation about how things were in "the old days" I tend to tune out, or at least am immediately skeptical. This is because often, whatever it is that follows tends to be very skewed in favor of whatever POV the speaker currently wants to support. But, every now and then something catches my attention that I think merits further examination. quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Is someone really trying to say that original homosexual old guard stuff really was not about sex? Was it? I am no expert on the Leathermen and / or so-called "old guard", however, from what I do know of them much of their original membership was ex-military, and more specifically war veterans. I am given to wonder if it were not so much about sex as it was an intimate bond they could not find outside of those who had not shared similar experiences. Which brings me back to the OP... quote: ORIGINAL: MissIsis But then he began to talk about how the old guard lifestyle never focused on sex, & how the new generation of lifestylers were all about sex. The conversation made me realize just why it is that sometimes we have so many misunderstandings about the lifestyle between each other. I think that the Leatherman had less of a focus on sex, but that it was certainly part of it. My general impression was there was more emphasis on ritual, discipline and service than is as generally common now. I also have the general impression that the younger those coming to this are, the more the emphasis is on sex and sexual thrills. But I do not find this surprising, as it should be no surprise that sex is frequently on the minds of the young. I do think that this, along with other changes, have formed new trends and "styles" within this style of living. But as Stella pointed out, and I feel much the same... I can't really be bothered with how others choose to live... except as an academic exercise. I'm too busy living my own life the only way I know how... my way.

TomCatCasper -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 9:19:25 PM)
My Understanding was that D/s and BDSM, weather you are practicing the old leather guard or your own form of BDSM, is that it has and always will be rather personal. When I first looked into it, I thought it was all about rough sex. Now, after doing some scenes, I am finding for me it is about the intimacy. Weather that be pain, or some sort of sensual bondage, it is intimate. However, that is just what my vision of the scene has become. It is personal, and differenet for everyone.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 9:29:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Was it? I am no expert on the Leathermen and / or so-called "old guard", however, from what I do know of them much of their original membership was ex-military, and more specifically war veterans. I am given to wonder if it were not so much about sex as it was an intimate bond they could not find outside of those who had not shared similar experiences. It started from sex and was always as integral as anything else. I'm not saying old guard was "all about sex," I'm saying to suggest sex wasn't an integral and essential aspect of it would be silly.

Flogmaster -> RE: Old way lifestyle vs new (11/16/2008 9:38:39 PM)
I've been involved with the lifestyle since the early 70's during the times when there was ritual and protocol, when a Master/Dom was actually trained, when munches were to meet individuals and couples with the right desires to explore the BD/SM lifestyle...and NO, it wasn't about sex. It was about the mental mindset, the dynamics, building the trust and respect of two consensual adults...exploring each others sexuality. Now...because of technology, and the wholesale buying and selling of groups, (paying for memberships and dungeon use) signing useless paperwork that has no merit. No ritual or protocol...not even common courtesy is used. Anybody with a desire, a fetish, kink and name is allowed...so yes, all I see now for the most part (cause there are still those that still believe in the "old" ways) on BDSM sites and groups are just kinky people looking for kinky sex and there willing to say, do anything to get it.

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