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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 8:23:05 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Tigresse, bravo. That does sum it up. What you said with all the fancy words and anectdotal reports comes down to one point. Don't count on anyone but yourself.

I lived on a farm for a while, these are family friends of a long time. They had an old car, knoiw what they did ? They saved up their money and bought a new one. They never had a car payment. They did have payments on certain equipment, but they never borrowed money for any type of creature comforts whatsoever. The Man built most of the furniture, like bunk beds and dressers and such, having five kids. The Woman did her share, helped him sometimes but mainly took care of the house and kids. As soon as the kids were old enough they found out where their food came from.  They would go help milk the cows or gather eggs from the henhouse.

When they got old enough, like over ten or so, they were taught to run a tractor. One of the few things that family went into hock for was the combine. It's a thresher and a whole lot more used to harvest grain. Even back then the sticker was in the six figure range, but it was a good investment for them and paid for itself. I don't think they ever had a credit card in their lives.

The land was in the family for generations, the way we know them is my Mother's
best friend married the Man. The best of the old values were eminent in him. If you were to talk to him about homosexuality and kink he would laugh, like to say "To each his own", but he had no respect whatsoever for those who sponge off of others. And strong opinions too, he did not mince words.

These are the kind of people who used to make this country work. He never took money NOT to grow things, he saw that as totally ridiculous as in "Then why the hell do I have all this land ?" (started with 154 acres and grew to a bit over 200, and remember without borrowing). I have alot of respect for that Man, perhaps moreso than the members of my own family. He knew what a trap credit is, and I bet that combine was paid off in record time. He knew, when you risk the family farm, you pay, and pay fast.

They are in their sixties now and probably get SS, but they paid into it and paid their taxes.They deserve it.

How things have changed. I don't have the mettle for that kind of life, I wanted a piano and plunked down the plastic. I took a few expensive vacations as well and am now in debt, but I am not crying about it, I signed my name promising to pay and hopefully I can. But then the day might come when I just screw them. If that happens am I dishonest ?

I don't know. There are three words I rarely utter. If I screw my creditors, or say die or whatever, so what, they should not have been so stupid to give me so much money, but then if the government bails them out with tax dollars, then as far as I am concerned I am a welfare recipient. That's why I write those checks every month. I gave my word, going back on that is not easy for me. Plus the fact that I like to able to buy a house or car on plastic. I am such a degenerate I guess.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 8:25:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Our house was paid off, until we needed a new roof, and a furnace, which will happen.  I cannot imagine walking away from essentially 95% equity, though the cash value of that equity drops by the day.   Yes, we had good savings.  We also had a 98 yr old,  a cancer patient, and a crohn's patient.    We are by no means destitute, and I am certainly not going to allow us to be.  I worked three jobs when I was in my twenties, I will certainly do whatever it takes now. 

I want to let you know that my mom is NOT the exception here.  There are many like her.  LeeAnn, I am thrilled that you had frugal parents, who actually EARNED enough to save.  I used to have savings too, before I had medical bills.  Eventually, I will have them again, but right now, that's not going to happen.  I'm not sure why Heretic seems to think that this is some kind of class struggle---I am the child of immigrants, and we worked our way up from nothing, to attain---a middle class existence!    Personally, I am very proud of my parents and what they accomplished.  I was taught that the world does not owe anyone anything, and if you want it, you work for it.   But *what if there is no work*?  A friend of mine upstate couldn't even get a moving van for the day he wanted it, because so many folks are leaving---and lucky them!  These folks are not leaving jobs behind, they are leaving closed down or relocated companies.  There are a lot of folks out there with very few viable options.  Is it TRULY sensible to expect a college graduate to support their family cleaning windows for cash?  These are the kinds of job suggestions I have been reading on these threads.   

What I am really hearing is that if you are having hard times, too fucking bad.  Well, as I said before, I hope that hard times never come to you. 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 8:33:39 PM   
NormalOutside


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Boom and bust - we're heading into a very large bust.  It's transfer of wealth, pure and simple.  Who are suffering right now?  The poor are in trouble.  The middle class is becoming poor as jobs get cut and inflation skyrockets.  Our savings are gone, our investments are devalued.  The rich are doing nicely, and buying up property and businesses at record pace.  Banks?  Doing well.  Government?  Massive and overpaid.  Wall street?  Turbulent, but this is when the middle class sells and the rich buy it up cheap.  Big corporations?  Very happy... and getting bailouts from the middle class taxpayers.

Transfer.  Of.  Wealth.


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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 8:37:11 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

Boom and bust - we're heading into a very large bust.  It's transfer of wealth, pure and simple.  Who are suffering right now?  The poor are in trouble.  The middle class is becoming poor as jobs get cut and inflation skyrockets.  Our savings are gone, our investments are devalued.  The rich are doing nicely, and buying up property and businesses at record pace.  Banks?  Doing well.  Government?  Massive and overpaid.  Wall street?  Turbulent, but this is when the middle class sells and the rich buy it up cheap.  Big corporations?  Very happy... and getting bailouts from the middle class taxpayers.

Transfer.  Of.  Wealth.


Bravo!
You hit the nail on the head!
Transfer of wealth!!!!



_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to NormalOutside)
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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 8:40:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Who has said that? Maybe since they are not getting the " oh poor you" and sypathy that you equate that to "too fucking bad"? I have a household of 8, including two elderly patents that need to be taken care of, a daughter in college which she thankfully qualifies for grants, and 2 UMs. Just recently I delivered pizzas for about three months just to keep the mortgage going. Sorry but I do what I need to take care of my responsibilities, and expect others to do the same. The exceptions would be those with true medical conditions, and at least in my state there is aid for most of them.

My heart does not bleed, it pumps blood so I can live and do what I need to survive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

What I am really hearing is that if you are having hard times, too fucking bad.  Well, as I said before, I hope that hard times never come to you. 


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 9:25:46 PM   
Termyn8or


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Stop over to Cleveland Orion. You would not believe how bad it is here. That's why (in another thread) I said that I had reconsidered sending that letter to my boss.

If you have a clean driving record you might make fifteen bucks an hour here, but that's about it. Any more requires a special skill or something going for you. For a full time job, which most aren't now, that gets you six hundred a week. I could live on that because the house is paid off, but many can't.

Actually I heard it was worse in Michigan, but that is hard to fathom. Of course going by official figures we are not in a recession either. Go figure.

T

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RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 9:40:06 PM   
popeye1250


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Wonderful post Popeye!
I agree, it is easy to be critical of others when you are not

in their shoes.
America is going through changes like we have not seen in 70 years.
Like President-elect Obama said tonight {On 60 minutes}, we might not be in a Depression,
but we are in the worse shape we have ever been in, SINCE the last Depression.
I thought that was powerful.

Mia, yes I watched that interview.
I'm hearing blurbs on the differant business channels and other sources that President Obama will be having some BIG public works projects going fairly soon in his administration and very soon too.
I'm in good shape financially and otherwise myself but I worked hard to get here.
I've worked lots of "shit jobs" before, a week in a catfood factory (yuck!) a couple years in a geletin factory, I was a roofer,...for two days!
Then during Vietnam I joined the U.S. Navy and really had it easy!
Then out for a few years, warehousing and trucking, and on a local fire dept then in the Coast Guard for some more "easy livin'" sometimes 80-100 hours a week.
Then out of that, college then selling insurance and now retired fully.
So, I can appreciate what a "shit job" really is!
One thing for sure, the country simply cannot keep heading in the same direction that Bush and Clinton were trying to push us in!
We need to outlaw "outsourcing" of jobs and get out of "NAFTA" and "GATT" and similar idiocies.
Those things only are good for businesses.
How do Ford and GM and Chrysler expect people to be able to buy their products if they're only making $10 or $15 per hour?
Those shitty trade deals are comming full circle now and those big companies who engineered them are starting to realise that they shot themselves in the foot!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/16/2008 10:09:20 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Hell T I just stopped deliverying pizzas here as a second job, had a yard sale, and even sold some other odds and ends to do what I needed to do. Things are bad, and they are going to get worse. Those that are willing to do what they need to survive, will be around tomorrow. Those that do not will suffer. Such is the way of the world.

I just wish Obama would say that he will not do anything with taxes until the economy improves. I am a business consultant and a few of my clients are already targeting certain positions to eliminate if their tax expense goes up. Now add the credit problem with certain companies going out of business because of no cash flow and their lines of credit being cut off, and it will get much worse.

On the upside, my manufacturing clients seem pretty stable and a few are actually expanding a little.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Stop over to Cleveland Orion. You would not believe how bad it is here. That's why (in another thread) I said that I had reconsidered sending that letter to my boss.

If you have a clean driving record you might make fifteen bucks an hour here, but that's about it. Any more requires a special skill or something going for you. For a full time job, which most aren't now, that gets you six hundred a week. I could live on that because the house is paid off, but many can't.

Actually I heard it was worse in Michigan, but that is hard to fathom. Of course going by official figures we are not in a recession either. Go figure.

T


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 4:22:36 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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LadyH, yes I expect everyone to do whatever it takes (within the law) to survive.

Speaking as someone in management, responsible for running a company, hiring and firing.......a college degree doesn't mean much of anything. I've been through too many college grads. What matters to me is work ethic, a willingness to work, to get work done, regardless of what it takes, whether or not it is "part of their job description". I am heartily sick of degreed prima donnas that come nancing into my shop with their resume and degree expecting to land a job at the top of the ladder, with appropriate pay, yet haven't any idea of how to actually WORK. I believe they call them GenY.

Well, GenY, and all the prima donnas before are getting a wakeup call. Our children may not have it better than we. Big deal, compared to the generations before us, we've had it unreasonably good. We've become disgusting spoiled consumer junkies.

Myself as an example. The other day I was moaning that I needed a new chore coat, my old one is falling apart. The zipper quit working two winters ago, the hood no longer will attach, the lining is starting to desinegrate, etc. I don't have the extra $150.00 to run out and by a new one right now.....ohhhhhhhhhhh poor me! Then, later on I realized how truely pathetic that was. I stopped and thought about it, over the years I have accumulated at least 5 coats, not jackets like my two leather, or my LLBean canvas jacket, or my beautiful wool walking cape.....just super warm coats. And I am feeling sorry for myself because one is wearing out???? So, how badly do I really need a new chore coat? Not too badly obviously.

The other person here was whining about wanting a new flat panel television. We have a 19 year old 27inch tv that works just fine. We do not NEED a new television. Nor do we need more than one. How many people are still watching a television that old or have only one in the house. I remember when I was a kid, television was a luxury. The only times we had one where when someone we knew got a new one and gave us their old one. Usually black and white. Cable??? I haven't had anything other than whatever an attena could get until moving to the farm in 2001. The first 8 months of living here, there was no television watching except movies on VHS tapes.

No one needs 5 coats or television. They really are luxuries. However they are the sort of luxuries we've come to expect. We need to wean ourselves off some of our over inflated expections and focus on the real needs. Shelter, food, etc. And even more importantly find joy in the simplicity of needing and wanting less. Of uncluttering our lives.

Yes, I expect a college student to shovel pig shit if that is what they need to do to put a roof over their head and food in their gullet. A college degree without a good back story doesn't mean jack.

I am very glad I learned enough from my grandparents that I won't be the one sitting in an over priced house in suburbia, where I thought I would live the american dream, whining about the price of gas for the SUV I am still making payments on, that I cannot make my credit card payments, and any number of other jams people's over inflated sense of entitlement got them into.

No, I really haven't got alot of sympathy for alot of people. It's rather like when my son got arrested for something I knew he did wrong. I refused to bail him out of jail even though it killed me. He screwed up and he had to pay the price for it. He is still paying years later. I won't pay the fines for him, I won't help him get his drivers liscense back. It's up to him to make it right, and he is. Sometimes one step forward and two back but he is doing it. AND, he is alot stronger and more admirable a man for the lessons his struggles have given him. He used to be an arrogant ass, now I love being in his company. Among other things, he learned humility and the importance of defining needs versus wants. He learned how to work hard for his wants. Right now, he is working two jobs to fulfill his obligations and give his kids a Xmas gift or two. Heck, I am selling plasma to pay for my Xmas shopping so I don't HAVE to use the credit cards I am working hard to pay off.

But you know, it's not about me and mine. Some of us have been laid off, some have other struggles, health, poverty, bankruptsy, I could tell many of this type of stories just from the people in my life. The difference in whether some of them will survive and suceed is their willingness to do what needs to be done instead of sitting on their ass whining to whomever will listen, all while those that won't listen know it is their own poor money management and "live in the moment" ways that got them in the jam they are in. No savings account, no 401K's, nothing. They lost a job here, had a medical emergency there. Their piss poor planning becomes glaringly obvious. Yet they still expect to eat out, go to the bar and play on a pool league, feed a dozen animals they shouldn't have. I've no sympathy, because when they were given advice they ignored it because immediate gratification was more tempting.

We've become a nation of spoiled prima donnas. Until we realize that and quit the cycle, we deserve our tough times, clue by four to the head.

No matter how tough things get, I am confident of several things. I won't go hungry and I won't lose my home. I may however, sell a few coats on ebay. Hardly worn and quite lovely.

Edited to add...........And you won't see me here whining about my hardships because in my world, a computer and the internet is a luxury. One I would give up quite quickly, if necessary.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/17/2008 4:26:39 AM >


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 4:25:59 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Wonderful post Popeye!
I agree, it is easy to be critical of others when you are not

in their shoes.
America is going through changes like we have not seen in 70 years.
Like President-elect Obama said tonight {On 60 minutes}, we might not be in a Depression,
but we are in the worse shape we have ever been in, SINCE the last Depression.
I thought that was powerful.

Mia, yes I watched that interview.
I'm hearing blurbs on the differant business channels and other sources that President Obama will be having some BIG public works projects going fairly soon in his administration and very soon too.
I'm in good shape financially and otherwise myself but I worked hard to get here.
I've worked lots of "shit jobs" before, a week in a catfood factory (yuck!) a couple years in a geletin factory, I was a roofer,...for two days!
Then during Vietnam I joined the U.S. Navy and really had it easy!
Then out for a few years, warehousing and trucking, and on a local fire dept then in the Coast Guard for some more "easy livin'" sometimes 80-100 hours a week.
Then out of that, college then selling insurance and now retired fully.
So, I can appreciate what a "shit job" really is!
One thing for sure, the country simply cannot keep heading in the same direction that Bush and Clinton were trying to push us in!
We need to outlaw "outsourcing" of jobs and get out of "NAFTA" and "GATT" and similar idiocies.
Those things only are good for businesses.
How do Ford and GM and Chrysler expect people to be able to buy their products if they're only making $10 or $15 per hour?
Those shitty trade deals are comming full circle now and those big companies who engineered them are starting to realise that they shot themselves in the foot!



Popeye!! Another insightful post from you!
I agree with you 100% on this post.

I knew outsourcing was going to end up "costing" us in the 80s.
Thanks Ronald Reagan!
We have come full circle, the chickens have come home to roost

and America is getting ready to pay the piper.
Hang on to your hats, it is going to be a bumpy ride!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 8:43:11 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
Buddy? can you spare a job?
Citibank is going to lay off 50,000 workers?
Didn't they just lay off a bunch of people last year?

How many people are left?
Where are these people going to work?
What company is next?
Citi Layoffs: The Impact on Customers, Investors at SmartMoney.com

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/17/2008 8:45:42 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 9:49:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Where are these people going to work?
What company is next?



Well, if I worked at Starbucks I wouldn't be making it a habit to come in late or leave early!
I think it's a "good" thing to get some of those people who were formerly making $100k and up out into the "service economy" that many of them were touting as long as *they* didn't have to do those jobs.
Now they can see first hand how all this "global economy" crap is.
"Hey! Hurry up with that Latte Corky!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 9:52:50 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
Popeye? I have been going in early and leaving late as usual.
The difference is, I don't complain any more about my job!

I am happy to stay late and I tell

almost anyone that will listen, how much I appreciate my job.
I can't wait too stay late tomorrow night!!!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/17/2008 9:56:06 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Buddy? Can you spare a job? - 11/17/2008 9:58:09 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
This is definately worth saying again. Excellent post LaTigresse!


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

We've become a nation of spoiled prima donnas. Until we realize that and quit the cycle, we deserve our tough times, clue by four to the head.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 54
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