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RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 10:47:13 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Thanks, guys~ It's interesting how things have stayed the same over the years, it looks like we are just reading monster.com instead of newspaper classifieds. All my good jobs were gotten because of connections, oddly enough. Only the disasters were via headhunters!

The false job posting is MADDENING. I have actually been on interviews in the past for jobs that had already been filled from inside, but had to be interviewed out for some kind of EEO thing.

For the record, my "second job" IS self employment. I have been pondering just expanding back into that, but dagnabbit I want a steady paycheck! And I don't want to have to work an 80 hour week for a 40 hour paycheck, which is the essence of SE work if you want to actually pay for that ever loving blue cross card.

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RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 10:53:03 AM

justgemmie

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greetings LadyHibiscus

since i don't know what type of job You have, or what You are looking for, i will also add my 2 cents. are there "head hunters" in your job field? if there are, use them!

i am a legal secretary and have been for almost 30 years. i moved to a large city (Washington, DC) when i was 48. i used a head hunting agency, they liked my resume as it was, and i had 4 job offers within about 8 days of interviewing. i took the one i wanted (luckily, that was one of the 4 offers! LOL)

my resume contained my jobs for the past 25 years (which was only 3 jobs, the most recent one before here i worked at for 16 years). i wrote the most detail about that job, and the other 2 jobs i wrote short blurbs. the resume also contained a list of my skills (including such things as certified in CPR because i figured any little thing to help), a short blurb on my education (as i had been working so many years who cared about high school?) and offered references upon request. it was one page long.

good luck in finding the job You wish Lady
gemmie

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Post #: 22

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 10:54:55 AM

Dnomyar

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craigs list may help.

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Post #: 23

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 11:16:28 AM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I didn't mention my line of work, since I wanted this thread to be more general, and not just to help Little Me, though you have all been very helpful! I have used headhunters in the past, and my experiences have been mixed. I am not discounting them, but I have been to some so-called financial agencies, told them that I was a CPA, and been asked if I do general ledger work.

For those not in the know, this is akin to asking your mechanic if he knows how to change your oil.

Craigslist is an amazing place, isn't it?

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RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 12:28:48 PM

LadyHibiscus

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OKay, I have been all over the Accenture website and my head is EXPLODING! I never saw such a vague conglomeration of job descriptions!

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Post #: 25

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 12:56:14 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I am specifically not interested in any way whatever what degrees you might have. I am not interested in past achievements unless they can be shown to be repeatable in my employ. I am wholly disinterested what you do in your own time. I am unimpressed by designer suits you might wear to an interview or what car you drive or your postcode at home. None of these add to my bottom line.

I think that does depend very much in which industry you are working. When I had to find people for my team those factors mattered...

- Degrees - depends on the job, who you are dealing with, in some jobs they will expect advanced degrees, I would have a problem with somebody who went to university for 10 years, studied a bunch of things and finished none, shows a lack of backbone and commitment
- Achievements - they should show a track record and if you have done it before chances are you can do it again
- What you do in your own time - largely yes, however if somebody would be a member of a radical party or be at rallies against one of the companies that are our clients, then I would have a problem with that
- Designer suits - Doesn't have to be a designer but if you are going to mingle with CEOs, I expect you to be dressed accordingly
- Car - agreed, not my business but if it is a car you can clearly not afford I would be leary and think you are a pretender, image over substance, doesn't bode well for the company
- Postcode - again, not my business but I would be leary if it is the roughest part of town

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Post #: 26

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 4:51:28 PM

windchymes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Richard Bolles (What Color is Your Parachute) classifies a resume as a "rejection tool." He recommends networking and F2F meetings as the better method of job searching.

I'm not sure how many employers take resumes serious, everyone knows people embelish the truth if they don't downright lie and if they aren't lying, why aren't they showing initiative. If most companies told the truth about their products they wouldn't sell anything so why would they want honest employees in the first place?

These are valid points, but STILL...with every potential employer I've ever dealt with, the first thing they always ask for is a resume. I think they just like having that piece of paper in their hands. A lot of corporations won't even accept an application in person, they want you to apply online first. If they do contact you for an interview, they still ask you to send or bring a resume with you.

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Post #: 27

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 5:14:58 PM

Termyn8or

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LadyC, years ago I had a very interesting conversation with someone in marketing at ATT. Zip codes do matter, but so do area codes and exchanges, by that I mean the first three digits of your phone number.

A while back they changed the area codes here in Cleveland, and in a way that seems strange. Pretty much 216 is the area code for Cleveland proper, but outlying areas, read as more affluent areas, were changed to 440. To the west, east and south they changed it to 440. There is no north because of the lake of course. Then it comes down to the exchange. If the first three digits are 661 they consider that a better, or more affluent area in a way, if they are 651 that is a bad area usually. Not all the time, but usually.

Of course zip codes similarly label people. The system is not perfect, but it's right probably eighty percent of the time. Like 44109 which is my zip code, it extends to the South Hills area, which is among the most affluent in town. The houses are simply more expensive and they know that. However if your zip code is 44103, they know that the area is mostly multiple family dwellings and is occupied mostly by renters. So if you are selling home improvements for example, you will find their landlord in a different zip code, and most likely with a 440 area code.

Problem is on a job application it is not a good idea to use a PO box as your address. If you do they know you are trying to hide something. You can get a PO box with a different zip code easily, just walk into a different post office. There are no residency requirements. But that does you no good as it regards this topic.

The best way is just to be upfront. If there is a reason to suspect that the "quality" of your neighborhood matters to them, mention that you would like to move and that is why you are seeking a job, to better yourself, to be able to afford to move into a better 'hood.

Another wierd thing about Cleveland proper is that in most cases the west side is better, while in most other cities the east side is better.

Demographics is a study in and of itself, and people get paid to do it. If you clean gutters why would you advertise to a renter ? Most likely they don't care as long as all the stuff in their apartment works. You need to get to the owner, who most likely does not live there. The owner is the one to concern himself with the condition and maintaining the structure effectively.

It really does depend on what kind of company we are talking about. But you can see the effect as some businesses know what they are doing. For example advertising used cars in the less affluent areas and new cars in the more affluent areas. There is no reason not to think that this same data are applied to hiring practices at certain companies.

Interesting point, perhaps even worthy of it's own thread.

T

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 28

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 5:36:23 PM

stella41b

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I would offer any prospective company a brief work trial - a short period no strings either way to see if you can do the job and also to see how you feel about the company. I would mention this in your covering letter or opening e-mail.

It's something additional to a resume or CV, something that any prospective employer can take you up on, and it takes the stress out of an interview.

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Post #: 29

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 5:49:00 PM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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My resume is honest, everything on there is truth, but it is written in such a way it makes me shine, every job I have applied for has got me to at least interview stage, often with the compliment I have a well written C.V. Often I have been offered jobs that I didn't want, as something better had been offered. What a dilemma when you are offered a number of jobs at the same time, often pay is not the deciding factor. The bottom line is, I always deal in honesty, like why try to make yourself something you are not. Stretch the truth and you will be found out. My employment history has always been about dealing with life threatening applications, for me to lie about my abilities, puts lives in danger, I for one will not put lives in danger for the sake of a job. Fine, by not embellishing the truth I might not be considered for a position, ok, no problem, then I will apply elsewhere.

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Post #: 30

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 8:04:28 PM

Termyn8or

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stella I always do that. It's the nature of the job in that it is practically impossible to learn in school. You can walk in there with a stack of diplomas and not be able to do it. Believe it or not, many people who do what I do dropped out of school. I did. I got my first job in the field before I could even drive - legally that is. As much as I have grown to hate the job, I can't disregard the benefits, and the money helps as well. Like I said in the other thread I don't make all that terribly much, but I make it very fast. I like my free time and I don't think I would like a full time job.

Aneirin, agreed but I take that to include honesty in almost all things. Misrepresenting one's self is never a good idea, but by the proper choice of words you accentuate the positive, and decentuate the negative if any. Mainly, it simply doesn't pay to say you can do something that you can't. They find out soon enough.

I never thought I'd be able to say this, but in the last well over a decade I have only had two jobs. I have turned down a couple of jobs, one was for a place I simply decided I did not want to work for, the other was a ploy to get a big raise at my then current job, which worked BTW.

I remember when I had amibition. I had two jobs, worked from about nine to nine. The second job was not every day and on the other days I worked in my basement at my own business. I had accounts with a video rental place to fix their VCRs and a pawn shop to fix basically whatever.

What happened to my ambition, I could be making so much money it's not funny. I guess what it is that I simply don't need it anymore. That's good with this fucked up economy of course, but I might be getting a bit soft.

And don't get old.

T

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Post #: 31

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/17/2008 9:04:59 PM

DarkSteven

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First, a disclaimer - I ran a one-person resume business for a year.

I have some strong opinions on the matter.

Resumes are overrated. If you can find the hiring manager, speak directly with him/her and bypass HR. Networking is an excellent way to do that.

A resume should be written to show that you are qualified for the job. There should be an Objective, and it should be direct. Lazy resume companies will try to sell you a single resume with a fuzzy Objective - a legit one will get you several different resumes with differing Objectives, each tailored to a different position.

Your work experience should emphasize Accomplishments (the RESULTS of what you did) as well as Duties (what your job description would say).

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 32

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 3:32:44 AM

Aneirin

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Well, I am doing college at the moment, it is hard as I am out of the academic stuff, it does not come naturaly any more, too long in industry I guess, but I have a plan for my own business, something which serves on a few angles, to include holiday accomodation, bespoke craftwork and an 'experience' for 'interested' customers. That's the main plan, but given my abilities in repairing things, agriculture and construction machinery down to consumer goods, in rough times, I will do that, having one's own workshop enables that, and the plan being for my idea to be somewhere out in the sticks ensures tuning two cycle engines does not cause complaints from neighbours and they by want of distance, keep their nose out of my affairs.

I have ran my ideas past some business orientated minds I know, people skilled in advising small businesses, and they think though it is an unusual idea I have, they can see it working, because I am not putting all my eggs into one basket so to speak, but am versatile. The thing that irks them, is that what I plan to do, I am not after becoming wealthy, my interest is simply doing a job of work of my own choosing, a job that allows me to do my thing, my natural interests and skills and getting paid for it, not learning some mindless crap to serve someone else's business.

The other thing I wish to concentrate on, is something I have tried to foster in past employment, sometimes with negative employer results, that thing is customer service, the premise that if the customer isn't happy, then I am not. I have in the past enabled the winning of contracts on my attitude to customer service, let the customer understand though I may be employed by an employer, I am not interested in the employers wants, but the customer comes first. Strangely as I demonstrated to my employer, my methods work, as I increased my area of business ten fold in a year. I also demonstrated to myself my methodology works and it will be of benefit for my future, not an employers future.

Funding for such a venture, I hope to get via private means, i.e. keep the money grabbing slime ball banks out of it, start small, a B&B with attached workshops are move from there, a farm building or such.

One thing I have learned through twenty years of varied industry is that I don't want to waste my skills on an employer who will take everything and reward with little, anyone ever notice an employer will never let an employee have a better car, or better clothes or have anything better than themself, they see you are better off, they start wondering if they are paying you too much.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 3:39:56 AM

simpleplan2

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Really? An objective? I've heard that it isn't wise to put one down...tends to limit you. Is that incorrect?

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Post #: 34

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 6:12:07 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It really does depend on what kind of company we are talking about. But you can see the effect as some businesses know what they are doing. For example advertising used cars in the less affluent areas and new cars in the more affluent areas. There is no reason not to think that this same data are applied to hiring practices at certain companies.

Interesting point, perhaps even worthy of it's own thread.

T

I know that it does apply to hiring at certain companies, or at least at certain levels. Put it this way, if you need somebody to represent the company with clients and it's board level for blue chip companies, you want to make sure the person does not live in a run down neighborhood since the position would possibly mean entertaining clients... Just like you wouldn't expect an account director to arrive with a beat up a car and shabby clothes when pitching for a fashion or blue chips company account. For a plumber, a factory worker or a job where you have no client contact, or you deliver a basic service, all that is not important.

The higher you move up the management ladder, the more important little things like the right address, the right car, etc. are.

I recall when I was a student in Germany and was looking for flats, different parts of the city had different codes (usually the first number or first 2 numbers) so flats that were advertised in certain areas I simply would not call for several reasons (i.e. being too far away from the university and student jobs, being in slightly dubious parts of the town, etc.), I can only imagine that it would work the same with jobs and paying slightly more for a better address is not such a bad idea, as they say in real estate "location, location, location"

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Post #: 35

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 7:01:03 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

Really? An objective? I've heard that it isn't wise to put one down...tends to limit you. Is that incorrect?

Absolutely.

The 'idea' is that you send your resume in with no idea what kinds of positions are open, and someone in HR painstakingly analyzes your resume and carefully matches it against all open positions to get the best fit.

The reality is that thousands of unsolicited resumes get received and do not get a second glance. HR types do not understand the open positions are are likely little trained. They definitely do not have time to sift carefully through resumes. If there is an open Graphic Designer position and your Objective is A Position as a Graphic Designer, they will look at your resume. If they can get sufficient resumes by just reading Objectives, they'll do it.

The bit about Objectives being limiting is bull. In jobhunting as in life, you want to know what you can do and make your own path, not hoping others can do it for you.

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Post #: 36

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 10:16:10 AM

Dnomyar

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First I have heard about jobs useing zip codes. Seems having a good zip code can also hinder you in getting a job. As far as trial periods go most places have a 90 day trial period. The big automotive companies have abused that policy for years.

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Post #: 37

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 4:47:37 PM

DarkSteven

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Oh, yeah... a couple of sites... the best site for jobhunting is www.indeed.com. And www.linkedin.com is a great site for networking.

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 38

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 4:52:03 PM

simpleplan2

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Smooch! Thanks. I've never heard of indeed.com. I just got a new job...in fact, I haven't started it yet but I'm putting that one in my favorites.

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Post #: 39

RE: Resumes and interviews - 11/18/2008 4:59:43 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Thanks, Steven! I wondered if Linkedin was some kind of spam site.

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