Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (Full Version)

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missturbation -> Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 4:59:29 AM)

Watching tv today and there was a debate about whether lap / pole dancing exploited or empowered women. The common belief was it exploited them because of the seedy background most people believe exists in the clubs where the women work. Amazingly drugs were only mentioned once, a lot of the decision seemed to rest on the fact that the women in the clubs were probably having sex with the customers.
It appeared that if you took the sex out of the equation the people in the debate would be perfectly ok with women being lap dancers. So now i'm curious as always as to what you think.
If lap dancers, escorts, and pro d types and s types are definately NOT having sex with their customers is it an ok career choice?
Do you think WITHOUT sex being involved it empowers women or exploits them?
Why?
Does your answer change if sex becomes involved?



SilverMark -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:14:52 AM)

I have never seen anything wrong with legalized activities that make someone a good living...if the person serving the position understands, is not coerced and willing, by all means have at it. I have never understood the prohibition against prostitution either but, I am not exactly a moralist. As long as it is a decision made by the one filling the position and it is made with the understanding of the job and with the facts of the position in a clear mind....why not fill the demand? With some health regulation and the services being accountable to the government for tax purposes I see it no differently then I would have seen the alcohol issue in the 30's.



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:16:31 AM)

i have never understood why these jobs need to empower or exploit women at all?

are models exploited or empowered ? neither really its just a job

how about cute weather girls from back in the day? again just a job

chorus line girls in vegas? again just a paycheck

female wrestlers? come on skimpy outfits on national tv? nope again just a job

the point im trying to make is escorting, dancing , pro D-types and pro s-types are all just employment. a career that makes money and uses the skillsets that person is comfy with

about 5 years back i dated an ex-exotic dancer... back in the day she worked the club circuit doing freelance shows she designed choreographed and starred in. she paid taxes , had health insurance , paid rent and had a car. just like you and me... the difference between her job back then and mine now? well she got more compliments about her work thats for sure

so if the person is selling a fantasy the same as any model or actress then how can it be in anyway exploitation?



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:22:07 AM)

I dont see the jobs as empowering or exploiting women either. The women choose to be in these positions, after all, and it is a job. Why is it we never hear debates like this about male revues? Chippendales exploits or empowers the male dancers? The guys that come to bachellorette parties and do a LOT more than just lap dances but shy of sex... what about them?
The women in these jobs are not required to have sex with patrons, so they are doing so by choice. Paid or not, they can say no in that position as well. Secretaries have sex with their bosses all the time, so does that mean being a secretary is empowering or exploiting to women as well?

I think the prejudice is from the seedy, low-end reputation that these clubs and the career choice gets. It is hard to find a job respectable when ads for it sound like you should be hoping the girl on stage is a slut and will be easy. It sells though, and so it continues.

DV



missturbation -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:26:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias

i have never understood why these jobs need to empower or exploit women at all?

Don't ask me, i don't understand it either.

quote:

are models exploited or empowered ? neither really its just a job

how about cute weather girls from back in the day? again just a job

chorus line girls in vegas? again just a paycheck

female wrestlers? come on skimpy outfits on national tv? nope again just a job

Some would disagree.

quote:



so if the person is selling a fantasy the same as any model or actress then how can it be in anyway exploitation?


*shrugs*



missturbation -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:30:01 AM)

quote:

Why is it we never hear debates like this about male revues? Chippendales exploits or empowers the male dancers? The guys that come to bachellorette parties and do a LOT more than just lap dances but shy of sex... what about them?

Good question. One i don't have the answer to though [:D]
 
I personally agree with you when it is by personal choice it's all good.




manxcat -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:30:38 AM)

As long as the woman has made the choice to enter into the business of dancing, with or without sex, of her own free will - not pimped - it is not exploitation.  There were times when i was sexually harrassed, otj, and fired when i would not accede to the pressure, so i decided that if my body was what was wanted, that is what they would get, and danced.  They lost a great mind.  Shades of Ayn Rand. ;;-)).


quote: so if the person is selling a fantasy the same as any model or actress then how can it be in anyway exploitation?
There are some feminists who see all of it as expoitation. 



_______________
I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wrong thing.



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:31:30 AM)


Don't ask me, i don't understand it either.

bah ... your no help misst :P


Some would disagree.

some would disagree that the earth is round... doesnt make Me any less right on that one either


*shrugs*

*shrugs too*



missturbation -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:34:04 AM)

quote:

Some would disagree.

some would disagree that the earth is round... doesnt make Me any less right on that one either


Ah but there is proof the earth is round [;)]



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:35:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat
quote: so if the person is selling a fantasy the same as any model or actress then how can it be in anyway exploitation?
There are some feminists who see all of it as expoitation. 



yeah the ones who try to make me feel like a sexist bastard cause i offer to buy a girl a drink

my response to them is timeless

[sm=lastthing.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=gaah.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif][sm=sodoff.gif]



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:39:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

Some would disagree.

some would disagree that the earth is round... doesnt make Me any less right on that one either


Ah but there is proof the earth is round [;)]


as there  is proof that all these women dont feel exploited.... they continue to work at these places

fine ill admit there may be those who work as dancers or escorts because they desperatly need the money... and perhaps even the odd pro D-type might stay at a dungeon even though she feels exploited

but are we really going to consider the notion that every woman working in these industry jobs  feels exploited and just sucks it up cause they desperatly need the money? especialy in the case of the pro d-type situation i find that about  as likely as  the flat planet theory



manxcat -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:40:44 AM)

sweetie you can buy me a drink any time , and i won't think you are sexist. horny maybe, but not sexist ;;-)).  or perhaps just bowled over by my brilliance.

manxy



______________
Artists make lousy slaves. -Jody Jenson



missturbation -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:41:18 AM)

quote:

but are we really going to consider the notion that every woman working in these industry jobs  feels exploited and just sucks it up cause they desperatly need the money?


I would certainly hope not.
I'm just playing devils advocate here [;)]



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:45:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

but are we really going to consider the notion that every woman working in these industry jobs  feels exploited and just sucks it up cause they desperatly need the money?


I would certainly hope not.
I'm just playing devils advocate here [;)]


misst in a shedevil outfit..... ok sexist darias looking for eyecandy is comming out to play :P


quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat

sweetie you can buy me a drink any time , and i won't think you are sexist. horny maybe, but not sexist ;;-)).  or perhaps just bowled over by my brilliance.

manxy
____________
Artists make lousy slaves. -Jody Jenson


finally a woman who understands that when i offer to buy her a drink im not suggesting shes incapable of paying for or getting her own drinks

i am infact just trying to get her drunk so she`ll put out





meatcleaver -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:46:21 AM)

Everyone who has a job is exploited. Only puritans could consider a job involving a modicum of sex or desire to be exploitative and no other job is.



GabrielleSlave -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 5:49:00 AM)

My opinion is that as long as the woman is not being pressurised by particular monetary need, or by another person, then they are doing it because it is a job and one that they are good at.  A service is a service, whether it is for this, or any other need.  If someone is good at what they do, regardless of what that is, shouldn't they be proud of it? 



RCdc -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 6:32:52 AM)

OMG Misst.... YOU.... you.... were watching THAT programme....[;)]
(I cannot bring myself to mention the name - and I only had it on in the background whilst I was ironing - honest!)[&:]
 
the.dark.



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 6:42:49 AM)

come on dark share ... atleast ell me what channel dangit 



missturbation -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 7:17:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

OMG Misst.... YOU.... you.... were watching THAT programme....[;)]
(I cannot bring myself to mention the name - and I only had it on in the background whilst I was ironing - honest!)[&:]
 
the.dark.

 
Yes i was, well it was on in the background (honest) whilst i was browsing here.
Honestly though i'm just waiting for the 'loose women' to become 'loose'. The title promises so much and yet gives so little *sighs*.



Darias -> RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types. (11/17/2008 7:23:19 AM)

dammit !! i missed it didn't i ... * mutters about misst and dark being bloody secretive women not telling me what channel the show was on and beginning to plot revenge as he heads to another thread * 



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