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.BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 8:58:29 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		BNP Members targeted.

If there is nothing apparently inherently wrong with the people you support, why would it be such an issue for you to admit your affiliations?
 
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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 9:11:08 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The Tory and Labour parties protect their member's identity so why would it be wrong for the BNP to want the same, especially when revealing names is against the human rights law. A law which the Labour Paerty incorporated into British law. What is terribly revealing about this case is that the police seem reluctant to find and prosecute the person who broke the law. One needs to ask why? If the police can be so slack at chasing the criminal down that did it because the aims (reprehensible or not) of the party involved are not endorsed by the governing establishment, they could be equally slack, say if the party involved was the Greens, because green politics would be inconvenient to the governing establishment. Obnoxious as the BNP is, they are a legal party and share the same rights as everyone else. I'd have been pretty pissed off if my name was leaked to my employer when I was a member of the Labour Party. There were enough Special Branch sniffing round back then.

Ironically, the BNP was against the human rights law being incorporated into British law because they said it would be used against certain parties and not used for them. (Meaning themselves of course.) However, it seems they are right.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/19/2008 9:13:07 AM >

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 9:15:59 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Oh, I completely get and agree that there should be an equal response to any kind of leaks, regardless of whether it is BNP, Green, Labour... etc.  I just don't understand why people would join and contribute any organisation and then be ashamed.
But yeah, I do understand the fact that they are a legal organisation and yes, there should be given the same rights.
 
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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 9:22:27 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I've no sympathy for the BNP and those exposed but unless as a society we have a cionsensus that BNP is beyond the pale, we have to defend their rights, even if we don't think they deserve it.

A bit scary that there is supposed to be so many Teachers and police officiers on the list though.

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 9:41:31 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The reason its serious (well, the second reason maybe) is that BNP members and activists get targeted by left wing groups for harassment and violence, justified by them as being necessary to resist the BNP.

Since such left wing groups have long been involved in publishing details of BNP members and activists for precisely this purpose, one would wonder at this latest episode being "news" as such.

I would agree no one should be ashamed to admit their political preference - but the fact is that whilst one doesnt get harassed and beaten for being a member of one of the main parties (well, recently anyway), one does open up to such treatment if one is a member of the BNP and it becomes known.

There is a big difference between wanting privacy for reasons of shame and wanting privacy out of fear. As a transsexual I desire privacy for the latter and not the former, so I can understand this situation perhaps.

E

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 9:42:01 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver


A bit scary that there is supposed to be so many Teachers ... on the list though.


I understand your concern that the people who are educating our youngsters might hold beliefs that many of us disagree with, and find distasteful.  But having said that, there is a difference between holding a belief and preaching it to youngsters.  Someone may well be in the BNP but wouldn't dream of pushing their views onto their students.

I'm a teacher in a secondary (high) school.  It's a church school (church of England) but I'm an athiest (the school is aware of this - I was very open and honest about it at my interview).  But I would not even consider telling the kids of my beliefs (or lack of...) but will uphold the christian ethos of the school, as per my contract.  I have been asked several times by students whether I believe in God, or whether I'm a christian, but it's easy enough to turn that round and say 'it's not about MY beliefs, it's about YOURS'.  Any half-decent teacher can deflect these types of questions.

What I guess I'm trying to get at is that as long as we keep our personal beliefs out of our workplace, and operate according to the rules and regulations we sign up for in our contracts, I can't see a problem.

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 10:50:21 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		In terms of work ethics, it's quite reasonable to expect someone employed in such a position to have the professional integrity to put their personal views outside the orbit of work matters.  Many employers however, specify that membership of this group is contrary to the person specification they want to hire.  Whether you agree with an employers' view or not, it is still unlawful to misrepresent yourself in order to land the job.  In other words, claiming not to be a committed racist, when you are, is the same as claiming you have a doctorate in robotics when you don't.  Or lying to pass a CRB check.

I also agree it is in the public interest that we be told if racists are working in public services like health, education as these services undertake not to meekly acquiesce to the spirit of ending racism but rather to actively promote it's decline.  An atheist working in a church school is not quite the same as a surgeon choosing whether a black or a white patient receives a kidney transplant.  A staunchly racist police officer would jeopardise many prosecutions as BNP membership can reasonably be said to indicate bias.  I would ask that the officer be sacked and the service chief also, if they failed to protect public trust in this way.  It taints an entire force which can only police society with public consent.

I started reading the list last night, to check if there were any of these morons within Molotov distance but it's far too boring, so I came on CM instead to read about pirates.  Bloody clever these people!


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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 11:34:31 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I see your point, and I guess it could happen if there are no checks along the way to ensure that bias of any kind doesn't happen.  People are people, and bias may well come out in some who hold their beliefs strongly, or are too moronic to keep them undercover in inappropriate situations, such as work.

I'd be interested to know what kind of jobs in the UK would specifically prohibit membership of the BNP.  I guess most military and government security jobs would.  Teaching doesn't (at least no-one has ever insisted that I refrain from having a pre-frontal lobotomy and joining the BNP).  Any others?

MoS



*edited cos I can't even spell my own name!  Sheesh...*

< Message edited by myotherself -- 11/19/2008 11:35:26 AM >

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 11:36:11 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		self.. there was what I assume was a partial listing in the article about who is banned (or discouraged) from joining..

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 12:37:04 PM   
piratecommander


Posts: 895
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I've no sympathy for the BNP and those exposed but unless as a society we have a cionsensus that BNP is beyond the pale, we have to defend their rights, even if we don't think they deserve it.

A bit scary that there is supposed to be so many Teachers and police officiers on the list though.


I suspect that there are no BNP voices heard beyond the"pale"

However , within it , there should be no silly whining from those whose political views (to which they have a right) lead them to join a party that is politically against the Human Rights Act when their details are published.
Maybe the BNP will "buy in" to the Act who knows ...... it will have to if it wants to "protect" its members.
I , simply on appearance , been taken for a racist/fascist/NF/BNP/Combat 18 type on numerous occasions.I have gained startling insight on one occasion of the level of ignorance required to qualify as a footsoldier for these vermin.I have on several occasions been subjected to racially motivated attack upon myself both physically and verbally , not by these vermin but by those in whom they have instilled fear .I blame these BNP/Nazis for promoting fear and hatred and that I (a white native of "Britain" ) have been attacked by non whites who were born here too , out of their fear of me (Yes I beleive the vermin also promote the image of large white blokes with shaved heads as a symbol of their ?presumed power) , the 10 against 1 experience did not afford me the time necessary to explain my feelings so I had the painful task of having to resort to the best form of self defence after a few blows.

Pirate



< Message edited by piratecommander -- 11/19/2008 12:39:10 PM >

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 12:47:44 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Thanks GT - guess my brain isn't working at full speed today!   So if the BNP is recruiting, now is the time to target me 

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:10:10 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		We all know more or less that the BNP is a racist organisation - abeit that none of its literature is racist. (they know better than that).

Meanwhile those of us who have bothered to look also know more or less that Islam seeks nothing less than the overthrow of the state and its replacement with a Muslim state; this is on record in the Koran.

Should we not then be asking the exact same questions about the employment of Muslims in any public service role - and in fact (on the written evidence) be asking that question more so in this instance than in the case of the BNP? Especially given the calls for faith schools - which would admit students of all faiths; in such a situation would Islam not necessarily influence teachers to favour Muslim students and disadvantage students of other faiths, in exactly the same way as BNP teachers are being suspected of?

The thing is though, we expect Muslim teachers to leave their faith at the door of the school. Even in a Muslim faith school we expect religious education which fairly and reasonably covers other faiths. How is it that we dont suspect undue influence on teachers' policy in this situation, but we do suspect it in the case of BNP teachers?

Anyone should be able to belong to any party they like (or none) and/or any religion they like (or none). The moment they bring their personal, non-professional viewpoints to bear is the moment they need to be subjected to disciplinary procedures - because of their failure to do the job properly, not because we disagree with their views.

We either have freedom of speech and conscience or we dont. We have more than enough laws in place already - including excellent laws on hate crimes - we do not need regulations to tell us who counts as a citizen and who does not on the basis of their views and beliefs, and in fact this is a very dangerous precedent to support.

E

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:19:04 PM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline 		rather than using google... and having no shame when it comes to admiting ignorance , would someone give me the long version of the title BNP? im gathering from the thread and the article that the common thoughts are being an " outed"  member is a bad thing... im just wondering why

and if anyone wants to  jump me for not paying attention to british politics... name the irish prime minister and president in the same post :P


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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:19:50 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		British National Party

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:22:52 PM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline 		soooooooooooo pretty much.... no foreigners allowed?

anyone explain to them the population of the british isles about 10000 years ago??

or 5000?

do members go through genetic testing and extensive family tree investigations?

to the other Irishers on CM.... please tell me we dont have our own version?


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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:31:58 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I see your point, and I guess it could happen if there are no checks along the way to ensure that bias of any kind doesn't happen.  People are people, and bias may well come out in some who hold their beliefs strongly, or are too moronic to keep them undercover in inappropriate situations, such as work.



Having recently left education, (secondary school within the last five years) I can tell you that I would be able to state all of my A'levels teachers political affiliations as well as some of their religious beliefs, hell even the wine they drink of an evening.

University even more so. Depending on subject (I took history, sociology and english A'level) you just get to know the teachers, they may not say it but its obvious from what they say, their looks and how they express things who and what they support, hell we had to say grace with one of my history teachers on a group celebration. (if anyones interested most were left wing, one very right wing)

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:33:29 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		You could probably find a potted history on Wikipedia Darias.

Basically the BNP split off from the National Front - over some disagreements over leadership I expect (this plagues far right groups, the members of which have Hitler complexes - each member thinks he's the One).

Its been doing well recently - it tidied up its appearance (ditching the skinhead look for suits and ties) and is riding high on dissatisfaction with government and democracy in general.

However, theyre not nice people; the hardcore are vicious thugs (a thug is still a thug when wearing a suit and tie) who like to fight. The majority are just angry people for whom a focus on blaming ethnic minorities for their failure to get what they deserve in life is preferable to self examination. Then on the outskirts you have pretty ordinary people who sympathise with the polices, which are not stated publicly as "fxxx xff foreigners" but are understood to imply that. Generally however they are also thick as shit and so not much to worry about - theyre more focussed on infighting than much else.

The ones to worry about are the educated intelligent ones - they are the scary ones.

What troubles me most is the reaction of other mainstream parties towards them - refusing to debate with them. If we could get Tony Benn to debate them publicly it would totally demolish them. I'm no fan of Tony Benn's politics, but the man is the best debater I've ever heard. In the meantime this refusal to debate leaves the BNP a huge gap in which to flourish, unexposed to public scrutiny and able to present itself as it will to the vulnerable low brows who often join it.

What also troubles me is that they seem to think they are national socialists (again a yearning for the third reich). Many of their members are to be found on Stormfront denying the holocaust and preaching the 14 words (or however many it is these days). The nazis would have spat on them - which isnt a defence of the nazis, but rather an indication of the nature of the BNP.

E

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:37:18 PM   
piratecommander


Posts: 895
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Paying too much attention to British Politics could get you labelled a Masochist,you do realise ?

Pirate

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:38:23 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*wonders where my "I'm a Masochist" tshirt is*

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RE: .BNP Members Leak. - 11/19/2008 1:38:23 PM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline 		Thanks to both Greedy and Lady E... my original belief was " bunch of folks i dont really care to know"

this has been upgraded to "  bunch of folks id gladly lose my no claims bonus for a chance to embed them in my front bumper"


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