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mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 5:47:38 PM

SweetEscravo

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

Man, some days I almost feel like I'll never really be a true submissive. I've been reading so many things off websites, and while a lot of it appeals to me, I can't help but feel I would make an idiot of myself if I were to attend a play party or be in any situation where ediquitte was needed. Some of this stuff just seems like too much...these specific positions, gestures, where you have your hands, your eyes...I mean, yeah, some of it is alright, but I don't know if I'd ever be able to master it all and really have my ediquitte down.

I mean, hell, I used to think I wanted to get into Gor. I used to be so into all these rules and everything...but now its almost like its too much. Its isn't that I lack the WANT to do these things..its more like they are overwhelming me right now. I feel like its just too much- I don't have the time or the ability to learn all this stuff.

So does that make me less submissive or just molding D/s to fit my personal life?

Post #: 1

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 5:54:36 PM

DreamyLadySnow

Posts: 359
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline

Maybe it's just me, but I think D/s SHOULD fit your personal life.
If some follow a strict protocol, more power to them. To me etiquette does not allow me to demand that others follow a protocol because I choose it.
You're no more or less submissive than anyone else, just because you don't want rigid, complicated rules.
If it doesn't make you happy, it's not right for you.

My two cents, .019 US.

DLS

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 2

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 5:54:37 PM

siamsa24

Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline

You have to make it what works for you. If you try to use what works for someone else you may end up very disappointed or unhappy.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 3

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 6:03:05 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

It makes you you.

Believe it or not, many people find the rules and overly-elaborate etiquette to be dull or amusing at best. I personally feel like I'm trapped in some sort of Shakespearean version of a Dungeons & Dragons game when people get too heavy into the Lords and lasses aspect of BDSM. They enjoy it, so I don't rain on their parade, but I know I'm far from alone in avoiding some of those scenes for precisely that reason.

At the end of the day, there's only one person you have to please, and that's your master.

just molding D/s to fit my personal life

This isn't a religion, molding it to fit your life is exactly what you're supposed to do. There is no Pope of D/s with the authority to excommunicate you because you violated the rules. D/s is still real life, however strange it may seem.

All that said, it's pretty normal to be reluctant or overwhelmed at first even if you will eventually love that aspect, nobody actually expects to you be 100% on what you're doing right off the bat. You're still at the point of finding out what you like, and there's a lot of confusion involved in that process.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 4

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 6:18:13 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

I was concerned about ettiquette before my first play parry because I had read so much about it. As it turned out, it was no big deal. I mean, basic politeness and the standard rules applied -- but no one was worried about sitting lower or higher or postures or forbidden eye contact or only baring the right nipple under a full moon.

The people that WERE practicing things beyond the basics knew the expectations w/in their own relationship and did not expect everyone else to conform to the same standards.

It was my expereince that it was easy to blend in.

Either way, it has nothing to do with being a "true" anything.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 5

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 6:35:51 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

SweetEscravo
I can't help but feel I would make an idiot of myself if I were to attend a play party or be in any situation where ediquitte was needed. Some of this stuff just seems like too much...these specific positions, gestures, where you have your hands, your eyes...

You don't have to follow others idea's of ettiqet, you don't have to lower eyes or assume possions, or do gestures. You're not owned by any one I presume? So if that's true you can make your own protocals to yourself. Protocals are kind of a moot point anwyay because each person has a diffrent protocal than others,

My X never wanted me to look down at the floor, he said unless there were tiles on the floor named Andrew I was to look at him when he spoke to me. And some others will insist that their girl never looks up at them. It's about personal preferance.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 6

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 6:37:12 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

At the end of the day, there's only one person you have to please, and that's your master.

I do like that quote. I would add, though, that he should please you too. He doesn't *have* to (especially if he's selfish), but he should want to, you should mean that much to him.

D/s is what two people make it. It evolves as the relationship evolves. You can read all you want to and it will help prepare you, but a relationship dynamic can't be predicted.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Sensualips)

Post #: 7

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 7:02:54 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

First thing to realize is that there is no “true one way”. There are as many different styles and levels of protocol as there are people in the lifestyle. As others have said, you have to find what works for you and your relationship.

Some people have called my life with my Lord and alandra “high protocol”, but for us it is just simply the way we live. Others may look at mine and alandra’s playful nature with our Lord and think that we don’t have a very intense M/s relationships or that we aren’t “real” slaves.

It is just people’s perceptions and frankly not really significant to how we live our lives. We will do what pleases us and what makes us a strong family unit, not what someone else’s idea of real and true are.

As for play party etiquette, for the most part it is just about using good manners and unless you have permission, don’t touch someone else’s property. This goes for all their toys, animate and inanimate. There are some people that don’t mind this, but until you know for sure, it is better to err on the side of caution. Some are very possessive with their toys and only share them at their pleasure. *ss*

When I became my Lord’s, the first instruction I received was that I was use a specific form of address at the beginning and end of every sentence when I spoke with him. At first it was the hardest thing to remember to do. Now it is second nature. I find it difficult to not address him in such a manner when I am in front of people who are not aware of our relationship structure. As I became comfortable with each new behavior he would give additional instructions.

It is slow, steady steps. When you first learn something new, it is awkward and difficult to remember. After awhile, it becomes habit. Learning everything all at once is overwhelming. So you take small steps and incorporate new behaviors when you have become comfortable with the old ones.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 8

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 7:30:50 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamyLadySnow

Maybe it's just me, but I think D/s SHOULD fit your personal life.
If some follow a strict protocol, more power to them. To me etiquette does not allow me to demand that others follow a protocol because I choose it.
You're no more or less submissive than anyone else, just because you don't want rigid, complicated rules.
If it doesn't make you happy, it's not right for you.

My two cents, .019 US.

DLS

I will be damn ... so your lurking around here to uh *G*... *rolls my balls along the floor* for Snow to play with lol.

but Snow has got it right on the head or is that balls *G*... D/s or just behaviors in general should fit your personal life/self and not fitting the self to the behaviors.... One should't try to wear something that just doesn't fit them, usually it looks rather silly or acted out. Be yourself and when you in a relationship that fits... IT IS HEAVEN!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)

Post #: 9

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 7:33:36 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Attending play parties or public functions etc does NOT define whether you're a "true" Dom or sub....

I don't mind munches but I generally have no interest in being part of community activity because D/s defines the dynamic of my personal *relationships* - I don't play at or with it. Simply, "strutting my stuff" in public is not who I am and most especially not jumping my girl through hoops just because I can....

As far as etiquettes, protocols and positions etc are concerned, my girl only needs to know what I need her to know and I'll take the time to teach her everything necessary. If she doesn't have the "time or the ability to learn all this stuff", we're probably just not compatible and would both do better to look elsewhere....

It's not about being less or more submissive (or dominant), it's about finding a partner with complimenting needs so you can each just be your natural self.

Just as an aside, I think we all initially want it all when we're first introduced to the possibilities BDSM offers and it takes a little longer for us to realise not all of it measures up to our fantasies once r/l experience is added to the equation.

Focus.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 10

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 7:38:49 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

It's not about being less or more submissive (or dominant), it's about finding a partner with complimenting needs so you can each just be your natural self.

Very well stated... Whole heartedly agree!!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 11

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/21/2005 7:46:08 PM

michaelGA

Posts: 1194
Status: offline

i know exactly how you feel, in fact, i posted something very similar on one of the boards.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 12

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 4:31:33 AM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

wow... who would of thought that I would start to come off as the voice of traditionalism around here?

Anyway, while I agree that finding someone who suits your desires well is going to be a surefire way to have more potential at a good relationship, in the same respect, should it not also be equally at least if not more so important what it is that said submissive or slave is asked to do by their Dom or Master?

The general response to the initial post has been one of simply, if it does not work for you do not do it... and while that may sound great, it can also be rather unrealistic.

You see, if she has chosen to serve a Master and that Master has requirements of her then it is her obligation and responsibility to work through the issues. I think also that many may of missed the point as in her own words she said that she desired to do so but just found it overwhelming.

This is where the mind and body must be forged and forced through willpower and determination within ones self in order to succeed, to perservere, to complete. It is far too easy to simply give up on something or say it is not for you without properly trying something.

Also as a side note, there are some of us who don't view rules and structure as some fanciful offshoot of a boardgame and in fact view it as a very important step towards gaining bonds and helping to improve peoples lives and while it certainly is not for the many it also just as certainly should not be treated with the general attitude of condescension when in reality it is a lack of understanding of why they were written or put into place. I for one am very big on contracts, rules, and the sort not because I am absurd but because I believe discipline and a strict regimen is one of the most absolutely fulfilling things to add to someones life when we live in such a chaotic world.

In fact, to me and mine it is to the overwhelming majority the longest lasting and the most appreciated change any of my prior children have experienced.

(in reply to michaelGA)

Post #: 13

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:03:29 AM

tasha_tart

Posts: 385
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obis

This isn't a religion, molding it to fit your life is exactly what you're supposed to do. There is no Pope of D/s with the authority to excommunicate you because you violated the rules. D/s is still real life, however strange it may seem.

While there may not be a BDSM Pope at the moment, there seems to be no shortage of people who think there should be and would happily sit in the College of Cardinals, if not actively seeking big pointy hat themselves.

Tasha

_____________________________

"Sex without love is an empty experience. But as empty experiences go, it's one of the better ones."...Woody Allen

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 14

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:10:20 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

for this girl, yes Gor can be overwhelming,but if it calls to you, then it cannot be ignored.find masters to help you reach your goals...if it seems to much start slowly establish diff comfort levels until you have pushed many limits...then give up absolute control...i have difficulty still w/ giving up all control but i am able to do it for breif periods of time and master is walking me there slowly

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 15

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:13:46 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

trappings, think of it as trappings, props to reinforce what you are, take them or leave them, but start inside with the assessment of your submission, without that defined, you are play acting anyway---if you get caught up in the "protocols" you have lost sight of the most important thing---you and your gift---good luck--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 16

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:25:58 AM

Phoenxx

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline

Learning the rules are important IF YOU are going to someone's play party and their house. When in Rome…
However, they are not the be all and end all of BDSM.
As an example:
When we have dinner at home, we eat very informally in the living room watching TV.
When we are invited to friends’ places, I often ask what etiquette they use. Being a Pagan I do not say grace at meals, but I do respect the rights of others to do so at their home. If they ask me about it at mine, I welcome them to do so, so long as they understand I most likely will not be joining in.
Yes, it is good manner to show respect for peoples rules when you visit them or attend their events. But when you are at home it’s your Master/Mistress’s rules that count.
Tony

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 17

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:31:29 AM

Phoenxx

Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obis

I personally feel like I'm trapped in some sort of Shakespearean version of a Dungeons & Dragons game when people get too heavy into the Lords and lasses aspect of BDSM.

As an old time RPG geek.... the rules were NEVER rules. The opening line in the DM's guide stated that they were guide lines only. The problem comes when the D&D Nazis stamped the One True Way to play the game on their set of ideas.
Funny ... it's the same here is seems.
You make you you... and those you choose to have in your life.
;-)
Tony

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 18

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:38:35 AM

andrew77uk

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

I dont think there really any rules in D/s its different for each couple :) Someone who enjoys bedroom sex with whips n chains is just as entitled to say they are in a D/s relationship as for say someone who takes it to other levels =).... D/s is very much like art, everyone has a taste for what they like, and wont agree alot of the time with the oppinions of other people....it just gets annoying when people preach what it should be.

(in reply to Phoenxx)

Post #: 19

RE: mmm...feeling discouraged. - 12/22/2005 6:58:12 AM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

often times what is taken as someone preaching "what should be" they are simply preaching what it is to them. When someone has something that plays a major role in their lives and they are resolute in those beliefs they are often going to be more authoritative and direct in their responses regarding it.

While there may be no "one true way" for all, there often is "one true way" for the one or the pair or the group, and as such that should be respected. I really think all too often the "your kink is not my kink" mentality leads to the my way is better than yours rather than, I accept your ways as your ways but they are not mine and we can both respect our differences.

There is no need for condescension from either side.

(in reply to andrew77uk)

Post #: 20

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